Ruleset Discussion

[peter grimes]

1.0 - Game Information
All teams are required to play the save within 24 hours, unless they request an extension in the Turn Tracker thread. After playing the save, they must send it to the next team via email. Additionally, the turnplayer must post in the Turn Tracker thread to indicate the save has been sent. The next team's 24 hours begins after said post.

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1.3 - Punishment
The game administrators are responsible for handing out punishment after a violation of a rule. Punishment may be limited to one single player or the team, but it will not be overly harsh or cruel. It could include forced anarchy, forced payment of gold, removal from the team forum for a period of time, or other actions. If a team feels it is unfair, they may appeal the decision.

Seems to me the appropriate punishment for stalling the game for 72 hours should be forfeiture of the turn. An admin opens the save, presses enter, and sends it off. That's really the only way to keep interest up in these situations. It is each Team's responsibility to play the save in the alloted time - if they can't get that done, then they should suffer the consequences.

All in favor, speak up!

 

[CommandoBob]

Seems to me the appropriate punishment for stalling the game for 72 hours should be forfeiture of the turn. An admin opens the save, presses enter, and sends it off. That's really the only way to keep interest up in these situations. It is each Team's responsibility to play the save in the alloted time - if they can't get that done, then they should suffer the consequences.

I mostly agree. We do need to keep the game moving along.

However, I think that the admins should inform the team in question that they (the admins) will do such if the turn is not played within a certain time frame. Perhaps PM the entire team to inform them of this.

If, after this warning and notification, the turn is still unplayed, then, yes, I think the admins should 'play' the turn, as described above.

 

[peter grimes]

Good point. However....

When it comes down to it, we all know the save is supposed to be played within 24 hours. It's not optional. Every team and every team member agreed to abide by the ruleset when we undertook this adventure.

It could be overly burdensome on the admins if they were required to not only open the save, hit enter, and email it along, but also send out a PM to 20-odd people a day in advance.

A simpler solution is to put all teams on notice that delays of more than xx [72?] hours are subject to punishment by forfeiture.

Certainly, if there is another MTDG, I will advocate vociferously for this rule - it seems there's no other way to keep a game moving

 

[Empiremaker]

I would have the rule go something like:

24hrs elapsed, with no extension posted, one of the Admins should PM the turn player

48hrs elapsed without an extension, 60 with an extension , one of the Admins should PM the whole team

60 hrs elapsed without an extension, 72 with an extension , one of the Admins should post in the team's forum

72 hrs elapsed without an extension, 84 with an extension , one of the Admins should hit enter.

Of course, in strange circumstances, such as a critical UN discussion, these could be modified, but would serve as a guideline.

Note that an extension would only give an extra 12 hrs total.

 

[General_W]

The basics of Empiremaker's proposal sound good to me.

I'd just suggest that (to lessen the burden on the Admins) they only need to PM the last turn player @ 24 hours, post in the team thread at 48 hours, then put everyone out of their misery at 72 hours.
The PMing at 24 and Posting at 48 can be forgone if an extension is requested – indicating the team is already aware of the delay and trying to resolve it.
No matter what, if you can’t get the save played in 3 days – the show must go on.
(With flexibility for obvious extenuating circumstances, of course.)

Simple, easy to remember… and keeps the game moving!

Spoiler :

Note to Wotan – no hard feelings towards you at all. Real life happens, and we know you’ve pretty much been abandoned by your whole team. I, for one, appreciate that you’ve continued to play this long.

 

[donsig]

I agree we should get some guidelines agreed upon and I do hope the admins will help move the game along. Though in all fairness we can't really expect to enforce this on the current turn.

 

[ThERat]

I think Team Babe is actually waiting for some input from another team, thus we delayed the execution.

However, I don't think I say too much here, if I tell you that the interest in this game has seriously waned. One year of playing the game with little to hardly any action...how to keep up the interest

 

[denyd]

A faster pace will help keep up the interest. It seems to me that this map was not designed for a quick wham, bam, thank you mam kind of win. Once there are Galleons, Frigates & Cavalry on the map, it'll get a lot livelier. And if that's not enough excitement, wait until marines, battleships, bombers,etc are around. (not too mention nukes )

I'm agreeable to finding a way to pick up the pace. If you're negotiating, then just post a note and you'll get your delay. It's the crackle of static (or the conelrad tone) that's numbing.

 

[General_W]

I assume you mean - no action besides BABE invading our homeland twice and capturing our small island… (which they are now blocking, btw, preventing further action that we would very much like to give them )

In any event, I don't see how waiting on another team prevents asking for an extension, or at least getting the save played in 3 days. If a team is taking that long to respond to a letter, courtesy (not to mention the rules) require that you let the game move along.

If it’s a RL issue keeping a team from playing, I have more sympathy. If it’s just slow diplomacy – I’m less impressed.

 

[ThERat]

Once there are Galleons, Frigates & Cavalry on the map, it'll get a lot livelier.

sure? by now everyone has holed in and blocked access...hardly exciting

If it’s a RL issue keeping a team from playing, I have more sympathy. If it’s just slow diplomacy – I’m less impressed.

There is more or less 1 active player left on our team, Wotan. Thus, don't be so harsh on him.

I assume you mean - no action besides BABE invading our homeland twice and capturing our small island…

we had to do something to make this game exciting...I guess our team has too many hard core war mongers....that's why I love to follow the other deathmatch going on right now

 

[denyd]

Once their are Siphai roaming freely in Saberland, we welcome you to land as many Mounted Warriors as you want.

 

[Paul#42]

we had to do something to make this game exciting...I guess our team has too many hard core war mongers....that's why I love to follow the other deathmatch going on right now

I'm looking forward to read your forum one day.

I can't even imagine how blue-eyed one (team) can be to think that an invasion like you planned it could happen...
And I really don't know what you are missing. You know you got opportunity to land on our island. What else can you ask for? The right to do the first strike?

That forum must be full of evidence of your thinking how stupid the other teams are...

 

[Niklas]

Please Paul, let's not open up that discussion again. Let it rest.

 

[Wotan]

Thank you Paul,l guess you have now given me the last bit of information I need to make a well informed decision about whether to continue playing our turns or not. Will contemplate over the possible choices for a few hours and do what I feel is the appropriate action when I get back home in about 8 hours time. Not going to make a hasty decision right now that I might regret later.

 

[Paul#42]

Okay, sorry. I should not post when I'm upset.

But I'm quickly losing interest in this game, too.
And it's not because our in-game rivals don't act like I'd like them to...

 

[Wotan]

Okay, sorry. I should not post when I'm upset.

But I'm quickly losing interest in this game, too.
And it's not because our in-game rivals don't act like I'd like them to...

I have cooled of a bit too. That was also why I posted I would wait for a few hours.

A poll to check the interest in continuing the game would be nice I guess. As someone said previously in the thread the deathmatch is of more interest to me too. I guess a low key building game like this MTDG has turned into is not the scenario that really appeal to me. But I am also not too interested in spoiling a game for anyone that actually enjoy it so I guess you understand the predicament iIhave been in over the past few months.

The attack on Council was never about "winning" a war. It was just to let off some steam and get some action into the game. The outcome is almost equal in terms of losses, maybe if we tally the shields from units and towns lost we come out of it just ahead of Council. But then again it is not worth brooding over.

Maybe the scenario would play out better in CIV?

 

[donsig]

@ Wotan: I'm glad to hear things have cooled off a bit. But, Wotan, I'm disturbed that you said in the turn tracker thread this isn't a problem about dropping the game and then here you say you have the information you need to decide whether to keep on playing or not. Even if the last remark was made in anger and haste it shows that quitting is still a possibility. The decision really needs to be made one way or another and stuck with. Personally, I'm not sure which is worse, BABE quitting or continuning to play half-heartedly.

I doubt a poll about game interest would be any use. Many of us are interested in the game. We have lots of action and I'm not talking about fending off BABE attacks. Your little war (which you now tell us has no strategic value expect to excite your team) has made us deviate from the type of game we wanted to play. Yet we play to win. We've already had a team discussion about what could be done if BABE quits and we thought about carrying the discussion to SABER, FREE and GONG so we'd be ready. But (until today) you've maintained that you'd play so we kept it to ourselves and patiently waited (and waited and waited). I've personally had a difficult time not quoting some of your earlier remarks about playing the save in a speedy manner.

The bottom line is, if you want to quit then quit. Playing half-heartedly and holding up the game is fun for no one. (BTW, we do not hold the save because we wait for another team to talk to us.) If you decide to play, then play to win. I've heard much about your skills and find it hard to believe you are in a position from which you cannot win.

As a suggestion, perhaps we should see about starting another MTDG. Not one to replace this one but one to run tandem with it. We could use the same teams (though each team could play different civs) and ask for a warmonger map. We could use the same forums we already have. It might get a bit confusing but should be doable. If some of us peaceable types played a war game with the warmongers, would the warmongers finish this one?

 

[Wotan]

Thanks for your comments Donsig. Yes, taking the post in the turn tracker into the equation do make it a bit confusing. When I wrote it I was trying to say that the delay was not due to a discussion about dropping, it was a question about getting an issue sorted that involved more than BABE.

I have unfortunately been experiencing a continuous strain on my ability to keep up in both this game and in the SGOTMs I have participated in. Most of my gaming now happens in airplane seats, airport lounges and hotel rooms. (Was originally going to London this morning but the weather conditions in UK are so bad we decided to postpone the meeting so I am actually pretty relaxed right now and just looking forward to the weekend.) That is OK for single games that you can pickup and drop as you please but communicating in a multiplayer game is pretty much damaged by my current RL situation. Niklas know what I am talking about, I barely had time to keep up with activities in our SGOTM5 team tread so was not much of an asset.

So given that the past few months have seen a very limited participation in this game too, I have tried to keep up and play the turns ASAP but I know you guys on the other teams have suffered from this. Turn have been more or less passed on to Council with little or no thoughts going into the process. With Paul also stating he had lost interest I thought this might be a common feeling. I can safely say i would not miss the game should we scrap it now. And I guess had I been in your situation I would probably feel the same way about another team not making every effort to win the game. I can only say it again; I am very sorry my RL situation is as it is. All work and "almost" no play.

 

[Calis]

I can only say it again; I am very sorry my RL situation is as it is.

Nobody should EVER have to apologize for his RL situation!!!

 

[Wotan]

well to some extent i think it is appropriate. We are dependent on others when playing multigames. when signing up we do so to play the game to the best of our abilities. If not I for one would not find it to be a very enjoyable experience. And since I expect good performance from my adversaries I definitely feel it is appropriate to express my disappointment with my own performance lately.