Sadly, Grade "F" for Civ IV: Colonization

[TFVanguard]

Okay, played three games to completion already.

First Game, Washington - Pioneer: Lost to the homeland due to time. The War for Independence took about 30 turns before the game ended, with no end in sight. Jeeze. The sheer amounts of troops that England had was insane.

Second Game, Wasington - Pioneer: Won, but the War for Independence took over 100 turns! And then it only ended because I was able to take out the Man O' Wars one at a time (sacrificing numerous Ships of the Line to do it).

Third Game, Adams - Pioneer: Lost to the homeland. There was just no way to win this. Despite my having nearly 100 troops, England have nearly 500 troops and was using 40 Man O Wars to transport them. Utterly impossible.

I hate to say it, but I likely won't play the game again until there's a patch. The game balance for the WoI is utterly broken, and this is even on the easiest level. There's also another bizzare bit where your schools, colleges, and universities take longer and longer to educate anyone, making the buildings in late stage game absolutely WORTHLESS.

Now, in all three games I had oodles of cash, huge armies, sizable navies, five or six VERY successful colonies with at or near 100 percent 'revolution' rate. And, still, I got my ass handed to me.

Since everyone here is likely a fan of the game, I would suggest that you stick to the original, or wait for a patch, or find SOME way to mod the core game itself so these issues are addressed. As it is, unfortunately, I cannot remotely recommend the game to anyone.

Final Grade: F, due to serious lack of playtesting in the later game

 

[Dale]

Let me guess, you produced bells the entire game? Try a new game but this time, don't start generating bells till at LEAST turn 100. See how big the REF is then. The REF is directly proportional to how many bells you generate.

It doesn't need balancing, you just need to learn how to play the game.

 

[Dale]

Here's proof the balance isn't wrecked.

First pic is turn 163, the second is turn 219. I won the WoI by turn 270.

 

[Akaoz]

So is the trick to build a lot of bells real fast in the late game? And start the WoI as soon as you have 50% rebels?

 

[Dale]

That's one way to play the game. There are others.

 

[TFVanguard]

Let me guess, you produced bells the entire game? Try a new game but this time, don't start generating bells till at LEAST turn 100. See how big the REF is then. The REF is directly proportional to how many bells you generate.

It doesn't need balancing, you just need to learn how to play the game.

No, that's not 'learning to play the game', that's a strategy of "Yeah, we screwed up the balance for how most people WOULD play the game, but here's how to skirt around it."

Shouldn't the liberty bell production in a city STOP when it's at 100 percent? Players are getting penalized for wasted bells...

It also doesn't explain the serious issues with the advanced education buildings, which makem the utterly useless after only training a handful of guys. (And, if you get a bunch of natives, this happens really soon.)

Basically, it sounds like you're one of those 'playtesters' who always knew the 'right' way to play the game, and went along with that way. I tell you this, this game's late-game balance is simply awful, and you laughing at posters who point this out isn't exactly endearing me to give the game a better mark.

 

[Dale]

No, that's not 'learning to play the game', that's a strategy of "Yeah, we screwed up the balance for how most people WOULD play the game, but here's how to skirt around it."

Now that you know how it works, I bet you'll be prepared with a bigger army. Also, you can hunker behind forts too and defend against the invasion. Get a lot of Indian allies to harrass them too. Learn to play the game.

Shouldn't the liberty bell production in a city STOP when it's at 100 percent? Players are getting penalized for wasted bells...

No, because liberty bells generate politics FF points. Bells aren't being wasted, they are going towards FF recruitment. That's in the manual.

It also doesn't explain the serious issues with the advanced education buildings, which makem the utterly useless after only training a handful of guys. (And, if you get a bunch of natives, this happens really soon.)

What serious issue? You place a non-specialist in, and when he's trained choose a profession from whatever's in the colony. Easy. If you mean the increased cost of training yes that can get a bit steep, but use you indian settlement training more.

Basically, it sounds like you're one of those 'playtesters' who always knew the 'right' way to play the game, and went along with that way. I tell you this, this game's late-game balance is simply awful, and you laughing at posters who point this out isn't exactly endearing me to give the game a better mark.

Yes, I was a tester, and yes I played it certain ways. I only showed ONE way to win and counter your claim that the game is unbalanced. You can also win using the old Spanish Scorched Earth tactic of taking out every indian you can find and use the money to buy a huge army.

You can also win as the Dutch by trading in so much you end up with millions and just buy a massive army.

As the French, it's brilliant getting 3-4 Indian allies to punch on the King.

There's MANY ways to win. Just because you got your ass handed to you on one of your first games doesn't prove the game is unbalanced.

Like I said, try some different strategies before whining that it's too hard. If it was too easy you'd be complaining too then right?

EDIT:
If you were King George, and heard that the people in the New World were chanting "Down With George!" and "Death to the King" you'd invest in a huge army too to combat it, right?

Yes, bells are nice, but keep them on the quiet eh?

 

[TFVanguard]

Let me guess, Dale, you majored in public relations?

"Learn the game"... well, hell, I figured that 10+ years of experience with the first one gave me some insights on how to play it. Silly me, I didn't know I had to master the code arcana of misplaced logarithmic functions in order to compete with our resident guru.

I'm leaps and bounds better than the average turn-based game player, and if I'm having problems, this product is going to shrivel and die in the marketplace. As it is, again, whether or not you think I'm 'leet enough for dudez', I would STILL cite this game as unbalanced and broken and unfun for most strategy fans, due to the end-game.

It's still an F.. and all you're doing with your attitude is making me wish I could take the game back rather than see if a patch will address these issues.

 

[Darkhon]

Wait, the War of Independence should have been easy? Our soldiers should have been as well equipped and trained as the British redcoats?

Dammit, I am letting God know that history was imbalanced.

Real Life, you get a Grade F! Our minutemen should have had an easy time of it.

 

[TFVanguard]

Wait, the War of Independence should have been easy? Our soldiers should have been as well equipped and trained as the British redcoats?

And everyone gets their internet feelings hurt.

Look, it's a game, and it should be playable as such. It is not a historical simulation. If there was, then you should be at war on turn one. Most of your ships would NEVER arrive in the new world, and entire early colonies would simply drop off the map for reasons unknown.

It gets an 'F' because two major issues at the end game make it a marathon-long-slog-fest of very boring play against what is USUALLY an impossible, or near-impossible, combat situation. It gets it because it's a bad game design.

If you want to be personally offended by then, then so be it, but it doesn't change the facts on the ground. The end-game of Civ 4:Colonization is awful.

 

[Dale]

Let me guess, Dale, you majored in public relations?

IT actually.

"Learn the game"... well, hell, I figured that 10+ years of experience with the first one gave me some insights on how to play it. Silly me, I didn't know I had to master the code arcana of misplaced logarithmic functions in order to compete with our resident guru.

Can I just ask, did you actually read any of the supplied information on the changes between Col1 and Col2? Because seriously, if you had read the material you would have known that there have been changes between two, including the fact that the King will expand the REF whilst you're generating bells.

I'm leaps and bounds better than the average turn-based game player, and if I'm having problems, this product is going to shrivel and die in the marketplace. As it is, again, whether or not you think I'm 'leet enough for dudez', I would STILL cite this game as unbalanced and broken and unfun for most strategy fans, due to the end-game.

It's not a case of whether or not you're "l33t" enough or not. It's a case of learning the differences between Col1 and Col2, and even Civ4 for that matter. To be honest (I could be wrong) but you come across as someone who didn't read any of the material (manual, readme, pedia) to find out the changes.

It's still an F.. and all you're doing with your attitude is making me wish I could take the game back rather than see if a patch will address these issues.

Well I'm sorry you're not enjoying the game. But I think you're selling the game short if you give up after only 3 games. At least I gave Spore two full weeks before shelfing it.

 

[RebelCub]

Third Game, Adams - Pioneer: Lost to the homeland. There was just no way to win this. Despite my having nearly 100 troops, England have nearly 500 troops and was using 40 Man O Wars to transport them. Utterly impossible.

500 troops??? Are you exaggerating or being for real?

 

[Sisonpyh]

It's still an F.. and all you're doing with your attitude is making me wish I could take the game back rather than see if a patch will address these issues.

Just because you're terrible at the game doesn't mean it deserves an 'F'. You're welcome to your extremely minority opinion though.

 

[Randolph]

EDIT:
If you were King George, and heard that the people in the New World were chanting "Down With George!" and "Death to the King" you'd invest in a huge army too to combat it, right?

Nah, I don't think the European powers took the colonies seriously enough to increase military spending in response to revolutionary sentiments. King George would consider words to be a police matter (hang people who write traitorous books, remove officials sympathetic to revolutionaries, etc), not a military mater. The idea of national self determination hadn't even been developed, the idea that common people's governmental preferences would be important in determining soveregnty would have been alien to King George.

Now a build up of military power beyond want would be necessary to deal with natives and other colonial force, might get the king worried, be revolutionary sentiment? I would be surprised if he was even aware of the level of popular support for independence.

I know it doesn't really mater, Colonization, like CIV, is a game inspired by history, not a historical simulation, but I thought I'd respond to that point anyway.

 

[TFVanguard]

500 troops??? Are you exaggerating or being for real?

300 regulars, 150 dragoons, and 50 artillery

No exaggeration

 

[TFVanguard]

Can I just ask, did you actually read any of the supplied information on the changes between Col1 and Col2? Because seriously, if you had read the material you would have known that there have been changes between two, including the fact that the King will expand the REF whilst you're generating bells.

Supplied WHERE? I've got the game, and the manual. The King supplied REF forces for bells in Col1.. just nowhere to this rediculous degree. It's not that the concept is lost on me, it's that the balance is completely and utterly wrecked for how a typical person would play the game.

Well I'm sorry you're not enjoying the game. But I think you're selling the game short if you give up after only 3 games. At least I gave Spore two full weeks before shelfing it.

I play games to enjoy them, not to satisfy my ego. I found the end-game of Civ4:Col to be one of the worst strategy-experienced I've ever endured, and that goes back to Rome in EGA. What makes it even more frustrating was that until that point, I was very much enjoying the game. The 'War of Independence' aspect is simply just that awful.

 

[pvt chaos]

Rome in EGA.

One of the best games ever !

 

[Panzeh]

Supplied WHERE? I've got the game, and the manual. The King supplied REF forces for bells in Col1.. just nowhere to this rediculous degree. It's not that the concept is lost on me, it's that the balance is completely and utterly wrecked for how a typical person would play the game.



I play games to enjoy them, not to satisfy my ego. I found the end-game of Civ4:Col to be one of the worst strategy-experienced I've ever endured, and that goes back to Rome in EGA. What makes it even more frustrating was that until that point, I was very much enjoying the game. The 'War of Independence' aspect is simply just that awful.

Is the REF tied to difficulty? I would see this as a flaw if it wasn't.

 

[TFVanguard]

Is the REF tied to difficulty? I would see this as a flaw if it wasn't.

It should be, but I was playing on Pioneer. If it is, then it's possible the curve is just wrong for the difficulty levels outright. That's something that should be moddable - but no idea where to look for it myself. (I haven't started up mods yet.. though I've been tempted of late.)

 

[Dale]

Supplied WHERE? I've got the game, and the manual. The King supplied REF forces for bells in Col1.. just nowhere to this rediculous degree. It's not that the concept is lost on me, it's that the balance is completely and utterly wrecked for how a typical person would play the game.

And yet people are happily winning the WoI against REF's of about 100-200. I've come to learn in my years not to assume that I do things "how a typical person would".

I play games to enjoy them, not to satisfy my ego. I found the end-game of Civ4:Col to be one of the worst strategy-experienced I've ever endured, and that goes back to Rome in EGA. What makes it even more frustrating was that until that point, I was very much enjoying the game. The 'War of Independence' aspect is simply just that awful.

I'm sorry you find the game this way. I would point to the feedback of others saying they are thoroughly enjoying the end-game, and suggest maybe trying some other styles of play.