Screaming into the Void

[cmakk1012]

okay, so I know this mod is dead, but I still enjoy playing it and if anyone still checks this subforum I have a few questions:

1. Is it possible to stay stable until the end of the game as an early civ? Suppose you’ve won the historical victory and just want to keep going, see how you fare against the Arabs or something. How do you do it?

2. What is the strategy for Bactria? The Saka spawn kicks your teeth in, it seems like to me...

 

[Sitalkas]

At its current state, it is extremely difficult to stay stable, mostly due to inflation that literally destroys your economy.

So even if you stay in your core, your economy rating will be terrible and you will have negative ratings no matter how hard you are trying to build wealth.

You can always collapse and re-conquer everything! And remember that the golden age kinda resets your collapsing status, and you will not return there unless a negative event occurs.

For Bactria? Either conquer India and stay there, or turtle-in your core, build walls and spam archers and hetairoi and grab every merc you find useful. I usually follow the second approach

 

[cmakk1012]

At its current state, it is extremely difficult to stay stable, mostly due to inflation that literally destroys your economy.

So even if you stay in your core, your economy rating will be terrible and you will have negative ratings no matter how hard you are trying to build wealth.

You can always collapse and re-conquer everything! And remember that the golden age kinda resets your collapsing status, and you will not return there unless a negative event occurs.

Huh. Well, that sucks. I’ve been playing a Ptolemy game; I’ve made it into the 200s. So far inflation hasn’t been too awful, does it get exponentially worse? Also, does Byzantium try to flip Egypt?

For Bactria? Either conquer India and stay there, or turtle-in your core, build walls and spam archers and hetairoi and grab every merc you find useful. I usually follow the second approach

Hmm, I might try the turtle thing. Does the latest revision include Margiana in the Core? Bactria on its own is a dinky province and won’t the Kushans flip the cities anyway?

 

[Sitalkas]

Byzantium will only flip Roman cities in the region, if I am not mistaken.

Yes inflation goes waaaaay too worse as the years pass for old civs. I have found the code that it is responsible for this, but I am too busy with my postgraduate degree and my job to and I am not able to develop a game right now..

I don't remember to be honest with you about Margiana. I am playing an older, more stable, version of the game, and Margiana stays with me when the Kushans spawn. What I do remember though is that, after defeating the Kushans in a bloody war, they respawned 10 turns after their defeat! So be ready for this!

 

[cmakk1012]

Byzantium will only flip Roman cities in the region, if I am not mistaken.

Phew!

Yes inflation goes waaaaay too worse as the years pass for old civs. I have found the code that it is responsible for this, but I am too busy with my postgraduate degree and my job to and I am not able to develop a game right now..

I mean, I guess it’s historical—didn’t Rome have a really bad time with inflation?

But I’ve had some wacky (broken OP) good luck with my Egypt game. When Christianity split into its divergent branches, a bunch of identical Catholic Shrines popped up in my cities, each one giving me 8GPT! I know it’s not intentional, but I’ll keep it!

I don't remember to be honest with you about Margiana. I am playing an older, more stable, version of the game, and Margiana stays with me when the Kushans spawn. What I do remember though is that, after defeating the Kushans in a bloody war, they respawned 10 turns after their defeat! So be ready for this!

Oooh, that’s good to know—the same thing happened to me with the Sakas on my first Bactria game!

What would you recommend as the most fun civs to try?

 

[Sitalkas]

Phew!



I mean, I guess it’s historical—didn’t Rome have a really bad time with inflation?

But I’ve had some wacky (broken OP) good luck with my Egypt game. When Christianity split into its divergent branches, a bunch of identical Catholic Shrines popped up in my cities, each one giving me 8GPT! I know it’s not intentional, but I’ll keep it!



Oooh, that’s good to know—the same thing happened to me with the Sakas on my first Bactria game!

What would you recommend as the most fun civs to try?

Yep it is historical, there are many historical examples of empires that inflation had a severe effect on their collapse.

Well, for me my top-fun civs are:
- Seleucids, for non-stop warmongering. Plus they become a powerhouse when you kill the Parthians.
- Bactrians, my top favourite civ, both in real-life and in game!
- Tocharians (!!!), yep I actually had some great games with them. Starting as a small kingdom with only 2 cities, slowly building wealth and expanding in my core, and transforming into a small empire. Of course I knew the spawn date of every civ, thus I controlled when and where to expand

 

[cmakk1012]

Yep it is historical, there are many historical examples of empires that inflation had a severe effect on their collapse.

Well, for me my top-fun civs are:
- Seleucids, for non-stop warmongering. Plus they become a powerhouse when you kill the Parthians.

I’ll definitely try them, building a giant empire’s always fun. Can’t see them lasting to late game, though!

- Bactrians, my top favourite civ, both in real-life and in game!

Bactria is awesome! That’s why I was so frustrated with how unstable they can get, but I guess that’s why you have to turtle.

- Tocharians (!!!), yep I actually had some great games with them. Starting as a small kingdom with only 2 cities, slowly building wealth and expanding in my core, and transforming into a small empire. Of course I knew the spawn date of every civ, thus I controlled when and where to expand

Really? Cool stuff, I was always put off by the Khanates that spawn with Tarim as Core. Do they just spawn with an army instead of flipping stuff?

 

[Sitalkas]

I’ll definitely try them, building a giant empire’s always fun. Can’t see them lasting to late game, though!



Bactria is awesome! That’s why I was so frustrated with how unstable they can get, but I guess that’s why you have to turtle.



Really? Cool stuff, I was always put off by the Khanates that spawn with Tarim as Core. Do they just spawn with an army instead of flipping stuff?

Yeah, I never play for UHVs I just want to build large empires!

For Seleucids, you have to be prepared to lose your eastern territories up to Seleucia and /or Babylon (pro tip, just a few turns before Parthian spawn, remove all defenders from these cities so they don't flip ) but you can re-conquer them easily. Damaskos is a key city!

For the Tocharians, you will face the first menace within 20 turns of your spawn I believe, the Xianbei. You can defeat their horsmen easily, just sign a piece treaty as soon as possible and build another city in your core (between Kashgar and Turpan) and work towards building an army to destroy them. I always destroy Turpan and rebuild it on my core, to boost stability and avoid a future flip ! Then I volunteer to become a vassal of the Han and give them everything they ask. Being kind to them leads in receiving gifts from them, either resources or money! Then I send spies all over the world to meet civ and exhange technologies.

 

[cmakk1012]

Yeah, I never play for UHVs I just want to build large empires!

This is what I like about Egypt: you can do both! Two of the goals are just internal development/build order stuff for Alexandria and Diospolis Megale. The third, to own seven Mediterranean ports, doesn’t require any warfare: you just have to churn out a whole lot of settlers. You can build one city in eastern Egypt, three cities in Libya, one city on Cyprus, and one on Crete and you’re set for UHV!

From there you can do whatever you want. Egypt gets a nice, big core population so you could build an empire. I decided to just try to ramp up my Science as much as I could and see how long it takes to complete the Tech Tree, but I did take Hierosolyma.

For Seleucids, you have to be prepared to lose your eastern territories up to Seleucia and /or Babylon (pro tip, just a few turns before Parthian spawn, remove all defenders from these cities so they don't flip ) but you can re-conquer them easily. Damaskos is a key city!

That does sound cool. Thanks for the tips! I wonder if it’s possible as Seleukids to survive the Sassanid spawn too?

For the Tocharians, you will face the first menace within 20 turns of your spawn I believe, the Xianbei. You can defeat their horsmen easily, just sign a piece treaty as soon as possible and build another city in your core (between Kashgar and Turpan) and work towards building an army to destroy them. I always destroy Turpan and rebuild it on my core, to boost stability and avoid a future flip ! Then I volunteer to become a vassal of the Han and give them everything they ask. Being kind to them leads in receiving gifts from them, either resources or money! Then I send spies all over the world to meet civ and exhange technologies.

Jeez, twenty turns? That’s intense. I like it!

The Han vassalage is clever. Where are the places you can expand that will not flip to later civs?

 

[Sitalkas]

This is what I like about Egypt: you can do both! Two of the goals are just internal development/build order stuff for Alexandria and Diospolis Megale. The third, to own seven Mediterranean ports, doesn’t require any warfare: you just have to churn out a whole lot of settlers. You can build one city in eastern Egypt, three cities in Libya, one city on Cyprus, and one on Crete and you’re set for UHV!

From there you can do whatever you want. Egypt gets a nice, big core population so you could build an empire. I decided to just try to ramp up my Science as much as I could and see how long it takes to complete the Tech Tree, but I did take Hierosolyma.

Indeed, I had fine games with Egypt. They are one of the civs that can easily defend a Roman attack too, with their UUs and elephants

That does sound cool. Thanks for the tips! I wonder if it’s possible as Seleukids to survive the Sassanid spawn too?

Yep! But you will have to adjust your tech tree and tech trading towards defending against them. You will need marksmen, heavy catapults and heavy infantry / cavalry. Again you have to be prepared to lose Mesopotamia..

Jeez, twenty turns? That’s intense. I like it!

The Han vassalage is clever. Where are the places you can expand that will not flip to later civs?

Just your core I think Alexandria eschate (Kokand) will not flip too, but the roaming barbarians make it hard to defend it, so I usually postpone founding it. If you need 4 cities, destroying Turpan and rebuilding it in your core is the only way. Plus when you build it in your core you benefit from all nearby resources, making Turpan a real gem in the steppes!


This was my post about my Tocharian games a few years ago:

I don't attack

my tactic is to slowly build an army and 2 settlers. When I am ready, I attack and raze Turpan and Dunhuang and I build them In my core. Then my kingdom is slowly becoming an empire. Try and building Turpan 1S of its current position. Its a gem in the desert!

 

[cmakk1012]

Indeed, I had fine games with Egypt. They are one of the civs that can easily defend a Roman attack too, with their UUs and elephants

True! Both them and the Seleukids can stand up to Rome—which begs the question of why the Antigonid UU is so terrible

Yep! But you will have to adjust your tech tree and tech trading towards defending against them. You will need marksmen, heavy catapults and heavy infantry / cavalry. Again you have to be prepared to lose Mesopotamia..

Sounds tricky but doable. I’m gonna give it a shot once I get my courage up!

Just your core I think Alexandria eschate (Kokand) will not flip too, but the roaming barbarians make it hard to defend it, so I usually postpone founding it. If you need 4 cities, destroying Turpan and rebuilding it in your core is the only way. Plus when you build it in your core you benefit from all nearby resources, making Turpan a real gem in the steppes!


This was my post about my Tocharian games a few years ago:

It’s really awesome how you can play the builder in this mod. Turning some provincial civ into a well-developed, advanced Empire is my favorite thing in Civ4 in general.

I had started a Gojoseon game after failing at Bactria and tried to build it up; it’s got a nice, big core, but it’s really resource poor. I think I’ll do Tocharians next

 

[Sitalkas]

True! Both them and the Seleukids can stand up to Rome—which begs the question of why the Antigonid UU is so terrible


Sounds tricky but doable. I’m gonna give it a shot once I get my courage up!


It’s really awesome how you can play the builder in this mod. Turning some provincial civ into a well-developed, advanced Empire is my favorite thing in Civ4 in general.

I had started a Gojoseon game after failing at Bactria and tried to build it up; it’s got a nice, big core, but it’s really resource poor. I think I’ll do Tocharians next

True, Gojoseon is a poor region in the game. Maybe you should expand to northern Japan? Are there any resources there?

Oh also, have you tried the Carthaginians ? They can become a great empire too

 

[cmakk1012]

True, Gojoseon is a poor region in the game. Maybe you should expand to northern Japan? Are there any resources there?

Huh, maybe? I’ll give it a shot

Oh also, have you tried the Carthaginians ? They can become a great empire too

No, but I will. Might be fun to crush Rome in its cradle

I went back to my Bactria game. This time I survived the Saka but holy crap the Kushan barbarians are ridiculous! Stacks every other turn practically, and my cav are so inferior...

When the Kushan Empire spawns does it flip Bactria province?

 

[Tigranes]

Every RFC modmod got some replacement for the main developer role. Except nobody replaced sprt... It's a shame because this mod is a gem. For many players it remains a hidden gem. Sadly.

 

[Sitalkas]

Every RFC modmod got some replacement for the main developer role. Except nobody replaced sprt... It's a shame because this mod is a gem. For many players it remains a hidden gem. Sadly.

Patience! I had a busy semester full of projects, let alone my job! From February I will have a much lighter schedule and I will work on it!

Actually, I have already added the Germans in python and xml, I just need to modify some .cpp and some .h files to be fully playable!

 

[Tigranes]

How good are your modding skills? Have you publish any mods here?

 

[cmakk1012]

Ooh, finish the Scythians too! And the Moors! And inflation! And make Rome actually conquer Egypt! And...

I’m just kidding

 

[Sitalkas]

How good are your modding skills? Have you publish any mods here?

I have read tutorials for CIV 4 modding, plus I have solved a few bugs in RFC CW, plus I am a professional developer! I won't promise that I will push code every week, but I think that I will be able to solve a few problems!

Ooh, finish the Scythians too! And the Moors! And inflation! And make Rome actually conquer Egypt! And...

I’m just kidding

Actually I plan to add a Nomad Confederation civ, where the player will chose to play either as Scythians, or as Sarmatians, or as Massagetae! Each one with different UHVs and maybe UUs.
And yep, inflation will be my top priority!

 

[Tigranes]

Do you guys like what sprt did with the tech tree? I kind of miss the old many tech tree...

 

[Sitalkas]

To be honest with you, no I don't like the latest ...

This is why I am playing an older version! I think you can downgrade your version via SVN if you want