SGOTM 04 - Murky Waters

LowtherCastle · May 17, 2007

Speaking of turnsets, guys, I've got some good or bad news, depending on how you look at it. I'm going "over the puddle" as Slovenes say it and might or might not have access to a Warlords-capable computer. Leaving on Tuesday, so if I'm going to get in a turnset before then, it'll have to be this weekend some time, preferably sooner than later because I've got a lot of packing and preps to do.

@Big Pig, maybe you and I could swap turnsets?

Big Pig · May 17, 2007

LowtherCastle said:
Speaking of turnsets, guys, I've got some good or bad news, depending on how you look at it. I'm going "over the puddle" as Slovenes say it and might or might not have access to a Warlords-capable computer.

(PS Actually, that would be v bad..... :cry:

)

LowtherCastle said:
Leaving on Tuesday, so if I'm going to get in a turnset before then, it'll have to be this weekend some time, preferably sooner than later because I've got a lot of packing and preps to do.

@Big Pig, maybe you and I could swap turnsets?

Sure thing. Why don't you take the save now if you are going to be pushed for time later this weekend. Then if JERFit is free after your turnset he can finish his. Then I will play my turns.

LowtherCastle · May 17, 2007

Big Pig said:
Wasters will be wasters.

Sure thing. Why don't you take the save now if you are going to be pushed for time later this weekend. Then if JERFit is free after your turnset he can finish his. Then I will play my turns.

Okay, that would work for me the best and it sounds like it fits with JERFit's schedule better too. I'll put together a little plan tomorrow morning and probably play tomorrow later on.

"Got it."

Big Pig · May 17, 2007

Looking at the save, I suggest for the war:
1. We give up on B's capital, and just destroy his soon to be settled new city
2. We upgrade the Beserker in Salamanca next turn (Turn 1), and start a cavalry in Seville now to whip on Turn 1. On turn 2 we will have 1 grenadier and 2 cavalry to retake Cordoba (and provide a garrison to Salamanca hopefully....)
3. We move the cannons next to Gaz on turn 1 (move the genadier and cannon onto the same spot) and take Gaz on turn 2
4. Frigate bombard Bursa (for a future attack....)
Hopefully by turn 2, M will talk to us. If not, then send a bunch of cannons to take B capital and watch our southern border

LowtherCastle · May 18, 2007

Okay, BP, excellent ideas. Thnx. Except I can use the cavalry in Edirne instead of poprushing in Seville (attacks same turn). Poprushing the cannon in Vienne on T0 we could take Durnovaria on T4 and Istanbul on T5, so I'll proceed assuming M's not going to talk and take a cease fire as soon as he does (after capturing Gaz and Cordoba minimally).

Don't see any point in capturing B's city-to-be, because he'll just build it again. In fact, for now I'd rather leave him with that one than the N ice city, simply because of the oil. But hopefully we'll get a cease fire sooner.

Okay, I'm playing.

LowtherCastle · May 18, 2007

AlanH said:
All victory conditions are enabled except ~~Diplomatic~~ United Nations,

Guys, how do you spell D I S A F K I N G P P O I N T I N G ???

I think having UN automatically disabled because of disabling diplomatic victory condition is asinine. Diplo V is just one of a whole smorgasboard of UN resolutions. Whoever decided to program that into CIV is officially a

NITWIT

LowtherCastle · May 18, 2007

I played to the completion of Mass Media and uploaded the save.

Notes:

United Nations is disabled.
Cordoba came out of rebellion and Isabella, human birch that she is, CULTURE-BOMBED it!!! (Or her prior culture still persists, I suppose.) Needless to say, my cavalries no longer reached Cordoba in 1 turn. All I can say is and kudos to Isabella.
Gaz is ours. I kept it because of our lack of culture in that area.
I have not advanced on Istanbul because I needed reinforcements for Cordoba.
I can play some more turns later, maybe you guys will comment on our new, no-FR, no-UN-resolution strategy, what to build in NH, etc.
Right now I'm going to go pump some iron and imagine crushing the tongue and typing fingers of anyone who creates a game with idiotic rules.

Turn log:

Spoiler :

LowtherCastle · May 18, 2007

We also have a new GG. Put it in NH?

Anyway, I'm playing again.

Big Pig · May 18, 2007

LowtherCastle said:
We also have a new GG. Put it in NH?

Anyway, I'm playing again.

True bummer on UN - certainly wasn't clear that disabling diploV would disable the entire UN.
West Point would be useful in NH for the extra GE points (and increased chance of GE popping). Once we can trade for Communism the Kremlin will also be good if we are planning on buying wonders for G. (Probably not worth doing a tech divert for Communism tho')

Would prefer to see the GG in one of our New World cities - Edirne has a decent production doesn't it? Or a Mil Advisor in our Globe city?

Is M feeling talkative yet?

PS As we can't do a UN imposed civics change, then now (ie while we have massive WW) might be a good time to get emancipation and USuff

Big Pig · May 18, 2007

The United Nations
Cost: 1000
Culture: NA
Great People Points: 2
Requires: Mass Media, at least 3 teams, diplomatic victory enabled

From http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/wonders/ :blush:

LowtherCastle · May 18, 2007

Big Pig said:
True bummer on UN - certainly wasn't clear that disabling diploV would disable the entire UN.
West Point would be useful in NH for the extra GE points (and increased chance of GE popping). Once we can trade for Communism the Kremlin will also be good if we are planning on buying wonders for G. (Probably not worth doing a tech divert for Communism tho')

Would prefer to see the GG in one of our New World cities - Edirne has a decent production doesn't it? Or a Mil Advisor in our Globe city?

Is M feeling talkative yet? No he's not.

PS As we can't do a UN imposed civics change, then now (ie while we have massive WW) might be a good time to get emancipation and USuff

Good point on teh civics changes. Now is an excellent time, espceially since we're in a hurry to complete the United Nations. NOT!

Do we want any other civics while we're at it?

Big Pig · May 18, 2007

LowtherCastle said:
Do we want any other civics while we're at it?

Pacifism (for the extra GPP) may be worth considering if we really want to get enough GEs to gift G the 3GD and the SE..
Depends how much more infrastructure building we need to do (as we will of course lose the 25% production bonus)

LowtherCastle · May 18, 2007

Okay, stopped again because of the civics cahnge thing. M still doesn't want to talk. We about ready to take Cordoba and B's capital.

Hannibal has just switch to Org Rel, so I managed to get Judaism in Atlanta (took 2 missionaries). I guess we want to stay with Org Rel because we need to spam missionalaries mroe than ever if we can't force FR.

I'm hesitating because if we wait till someone trades us COmunism, we could go State Property too. Might be better than the +1 trade route.

LowtherCastle · May 18, 2007

Big Pig said:
Pacifism (for the extra GPP) may be worth considering if we really want to get enough GEs to gift G the 3GD and the SE..
Depends how much more infrastructure building we need to do (as we will of course lose the 25% production bonus) and we stil need to spam misses

You know what, I'm thinking Pacifism for 1 lousy city (NH) is probably not nearly as worthwhile as Free Religion and the +10% :science:

, but I don't know.

Big Pig · May 18, 2007

Free Market gives us, say an extra 30-40 base :commerce:

per turn.
Will the benefit of losing city distance maintenance payments with State Property generate more than this? I suppose the extra food from workshops will allow a few more coastal tiles to be worked in NH also, generating a few more :commerce:

We have a few monasteries we can missionary spam from, don't we?

The benefits of Pacifism aren't for NH but for G. How many GEs can we realistically expect to pop from NH with and without Pacifism?

LowtherCastle · May 18, 2007

Big Pig said:
Free Market gives us, say an extra 30-40 base per turn.
Will the benefit of losing city distance maintenance payments with State Property generate more than this? I suppose the extra food from workshops will allow a few more coastal tiles to be worked in NH also, generating a few more

We have a few monasteries we can missionary spam from, don't we?

The benefits of Pacifism aren't for NH but for G. How many GEs can we realistically expect to pop from NH with and without Pacifism?

You're asking me to think rationally when I feel like opening up that save and oblitering Isabella, Brennus, Mehmed, Washington, Hannibal....and Gandhi?

Big Pig · May 18, 2007

Slow calming breaths. Count to 10.

There now. Better?

Big Pig · May 18, 2007

I will be away without internet access until Sun pm (sadly I don't have a smart new internet ready Eriksson phone, but an old stone-age Samsung one.....).

If JERFit is free to play a few more turns next after LC has finished that is great. Otherwise I will get the save on Sun pm.

@LC. Best of luck with the rest of your turnset and help yourself to post 2000! (I don't think Erkon reserved that one!)

LowtherCastle · May 18, 2007

Big Pig said:
Slow calming breaths. Count to 10.

There now. Better?

Thanks. Here you go:

Free Market +46 right now
State Property +65 for distance and +12 for cheaper civic = +67 total

Pacifism: +26 cheaper civic cost than FR -78 mil unit cost, 2 GEs in ~80 turns.
Org Rel: We have 1 Jewish Monastery in MC and need at least 8 more for just H, 16 more for H, W, and M.

UnivSuff -12 civics cost, but +1 times a whole lot of towns.

We could just switch to Emancipation right now for 2t and USuff+SP+Pac later for 3t, or we could switch to Emanc+USuff now and SP+Pac later, each for 3t.

Do we want the extra hammers from USuff right now? Probably we do.

LowtherCastle · May 18, 2007

Big Pig said:
@LC. help yourself to post 2000! (I don't think Erkon reserved that one!)

Waster. This is my last post. EVER.

SGOTM 04 - Murky Waters

Deity

bringing home the bacon

Deity

bringing home the bacon

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

bringing home the bacon

bringing home the bacon

Deity

bringing home the bacon

Deity

Deity

bringing home the bacon

Deity

bringing home the bacon

bringing home the bacon

Deity

Deity

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