SGOTM 08 - The Real Ms. Beyond

Sure. No problem.

The concensus seems to be COL from Oracle and more axe's to the front.

I'll put a barracks into pig city and see it makes sense to fit one into the capital. - After Writing I think Libraries are more important, so library in capital is better than barracks in my games...as long as we dont release the choke on Shaka. Enough units have to continue the long march/ferry over there.

If Marbleburg can complete the lighthouse then I'll start Maoi, maybe even start another settler to connect the stone timed to co-incide with the end of the lighthouse....but this will probably be after my turn. (And the galley is on the wrong side of the island)

We haven't really discussed research priorities much but given the war situation I would go for alpha/ construction. - I'll see if I can get us there in the next turn set.

I wont trade any tech's yet with Joao....I would normally trade Alpha to back fill all the early tech's...but I have read other strategy posts saying DONT trade alpha as it gives the AI a trade advantage (If they know more AI's than you...and Joao might). - We can discuss as a team the merits of trade Alphabet or not for the next player to go to the trade table with.

If possible I'll see if one of the axe's can explore West (without risking the choke hold).

I'll also take a few more screenshots and see if I can post them this time.

I'll play tonight so watch this space.
 
Completed the turn set. - 20 turns to take us to 450BC.

Very enjoyable game. - Helped along by a few glasses of a fine white Bordeaux.

Here is the save (before I forget):

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm8/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG008_BC0450_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

So what has happened?

Quick summary: - We are still at war. We have completed Oracle and took COL. - Religion founded in Pig city. - Converted to Conf immediately. (Neither Shaka nor Joao have any religion.) - Spread to Capital city with free missionary.

- Pig city pumped out Axemen and much to my surprise Shaka didn't attack at all during my turn.- As a consequence we now have 8 axe's near or close to Ulundi which is defended by 1 axe and 4 archers. (But 50% defence bonus)

- Also as a consequence of not needing lots of military I build ToA in Capital.

- From Shaka we have captured 1 worker and 1 settler(worker). - We have killed 1 archer and 1 impi and 3 workboats.

I whipped a temple in Capital for 1 population, a lighthouse in Ankor Thom and a Library in Ankor Thom (AT)....Unfortuantely AT now needs some attention. - It has no military and is growing fast...need defensive units to quell the unrest.

Our Capital is about to complete a settler. - We need to expand further.
We are also about to receive our first Great Person. Prophet or Merchant.

One of the captured workers is acting as a worker-scout West of Ulundi trying to locate Joao.
The workboat-scout has completed it's circuit of the southern island and moved SW to identify a long spit of land attached to the Antartic. The WB is returning to go round the other side, however if this land is attached to the land below Ulundi then only the northern sea's offer a chance to explore West by ship.

The galley is north of our Capital ready to ferry the settler if we want the stone, and ferry a defender if we want to quell Ankor Thom.

One Zulu Archer made it through our choke and is sitting in the jungle on our nominated city site East of Ulundi. - One of our combat1 axe units is next to this archer.

Just south of the axeman are 2 workers building a road to Ulundi. (1 captured worker, 1 home grown starting at both ends.)

We have completed Writing and Mathematics and are about to complete Construction. (I didn't go for Alpha after all as I thought getting the cats to take out Shaka was a better option.)

I've got the screenshots as jpegs....just need to work out how to attach them to this post.
 

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Things do look good, thanks for playing this turnset, orb, appreciated.

First of all, our choke seems to have worked nicely. Shaka is only a shadow to be shoved away as soon as we got 2-3 catapults on our way, if we want to. I didn´t expect us to be able to get those marble wonders that late really, so a good thing here, too.

Will check the save and comment further soon.
 
Thks for making the game advance again.

Just a few comments (without opening save)

Scouting.
I would avoid sending a naked worker, even if barbarians activities might be lower due to settling, an unpleasant encounter is still likely. I would rather send an axe, if possible with Wood promotions and try to farm barbarians to get it to Wood III, for healing and unlocking the HE.

Maoi
I am not sure building it in AT is the best. If AT becomes our GPP farm, it just need the basic infra and some specialist enablers (libray, temple, market, forge) which could be just whipped (or we could go into caste). then we stop growth by having as many specialists as possible while slow building navy, WB or missionary.
Someone said earlier that he prefers Maoi in a city with some decent 'land' production (mines) so it could be a strong production city. In that case some location in the next island south might be better.
In any case, I would probably wait until we have stone connected before building it.

Pictures
I am using imageshack [http://imageshack.us/], which is nice enough with a multi-uploader to select several pictures at once and which gives you 'proper' links to directly post pictures into forums. Ther might be better sites, but this one is good enough for my limited needs.

Jabah
 
For me, I agree that a military unit is better than a scout (or worker) in case of Barb attack. A scout will lose to Barb's, a worker will lose to Barbs. - They are the same.

As the first captured worker was essentially a free unit it was choice of a) Do I return it to our land via the galley or b) Do I send it West to reveal more map.

I thought our homeland was already quite well developed so I would rather learn more about the map...I'm sure we will lose it soon, but it might tell us something useful.

But you are right...If we had a promoted axe it would survive longer going West.

And for Maoi...My thoughts were that the Marble city is hammer poor...Maoi can boost it's production....but if you think it would be better elsewhere then lets change it.

Thanks for the imageshack tip Jabah. - I'll have a look. - I think what I was doing wrong before was I had taken screenshots but didn't have the advanced post option open so I couldn't see the "Manage attachments" button. - For the shots above I used the in game screenshot but it brings up the screenshot name box...Do you know how to get rid of this?


As for the next turns....

For the War. - I think we should now complete Construction, build the cats and take Ulundi. - It's what all the recent effort has been about and will get us another good city site. Strangely Shaka seemed determined to settle towards us. - If he had sent his settler stack NW he could have hooked up the second copper on the NW shore and we would have had a much harder time....Also he seemed more concerned about sending the Impi out to kills barb archers than worry about our axe's. - This is how 1 of our axe's killed the Impi.

In the Capital and Ankor Thom:- We have a library but no specialist appointed.

For the Settler: - What is better - Stone or Iron? - Stone for wonders or Iron for military. - Or should we make a second settler now and grab both? - Does anyone have an opinion? (Maybe a build strategy for the next player.)

Great People: - If we get a Gt Prophet I would build the religious building as a free wonder. It helps income and is another wonder in our wonderlust game. If we lightbulb the prophet then we might never get another prophet and so miss out on the religious building points for this game. - If we get a Gt Merchant then lets check out what we can lightbulb. - I rarely get Gt Merchants, but in previous games I have lightbulbed or trade routed for income, in this game as we dont know where the other cities are it makes a trade route difficult. - Does anyone settle Gt Merchants? (I dont think I have ever created a Merchant rich city)

For research: Alphabet would be my next choice to see what Jaoa can trade with us. - But as I posted above...Does anyone NOT trade alphabet as a strategy?

Also in terms of our next strategy. - If we do take out Shaka. - What then? We know there is one other AI on our landmass. - Do the team have a preferred route through the game? Do we consolidate to achieve the next advantageous military tech or strike when we can? - I'm interested to hear people's opinions on how best to achieve our win.
 
Checked the save now.

Expansion wise, I think we should go for stone/whale and the iron city asap. Together with a captured Ulundi this should do nicely.

Maoi would be a good match for the stone/whale city, and Marbletown could go towards going for GPs, I agree with Jabah there.

Building cats and taking Ulundi is a priority. I am not sure if Alphabet will really serve us well, seeing we only have Portugal atm for trading, but this could change with exploration.

If you don´t mind, Jabah, I will do the next turnset somewhen this weekend as soon as we go our strategy fleshed out.


Long term I fear we have to go into the endgame for a war as everyone seems pretty far away and we decided early on we want to milk the game for as many wonders as possible.
 
@Orb
- Screenshot, I don't know exactly how to remove the pop-up (I don't have it, I think it has to be something in the civ.ini). For posting, I always go into the 'advance', but if you copy/paste the links Imageshack is giving it should work fine even in quick reply.
- GP Prophet : probably depend on what would be the bulbing tech. Right now it should be a cheap religion tech that we by-pass. We could consider bulbing Theology if possible for AP. otherwise I would be safer indeed to build the Shrine.

@thearchduke
-Maoi in stone/whale is a good idea
-playing next round this WE. Just need everyone else in the team (and still around) ideas.

Random thoughts.
We will have to thing about which cities gat which National Wonders. Our holy city being what we were planning to be our military city is wrecking some plans :). Of course, we can always get another holy city and turn it into our Wall Street...
 
Hmm... I was sure it was discussed to make AT a GP farm? (ie We don't want Moai here!), hire some scientists?

When we finally get the opportunity to make our assault on Ulundi, perhaps move a unit onto the rice to lure out his axe? Thats still a ways ahead, but I thought I'd get it out there in my few chances to comment.

The new settler should found the Iron city, which is an excellent location, minus the lack of fresh water.\

If we get an Prophet, shrine it, if we get a Merchant, settle?
 
Sorry I have been absent. I still prefer Moai in Hariharilaya over stone/whale city primarily because it can be finished much sooner; but in any case agree that AT is not best place, and stone should be hooked up before building it.

I think we have enough axes, so I would put Harihari on something to help our expansions (another galley would be best, so we have one to ferry stuff south and another to go north), or workboats (AT still needs two). Once construction is in, 2 cats from each mainland city should be enough. The rest of our attention should be on nonstop expansion.

MM notice - check Harihari. I would move the unimproved grass to hill mine, but at the very least it should work the cottage it can reach in the captial's radius.

EDIT: Merchant will bulb Currency, then MC. Settling might be better in my opinion, neither tech is that expensive
 

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Questions before I continue.

Do we want to divert some time into HBR so we can build the UU? I like it and find it quite effective, but perhaps we are staying peaceful after Shaka.

Also should we finish our second settler or get both cities to build 2 catapults each asap?

The GP was used for the shrine, so it may be good to snatch mediation to spread our religion a bit.
 
We probably don't need HBR right now (even if it will unlock UU and elephant). We can always reconsider if we need to go to war again later.
 
I agree with timmy827. - Cats to capture Ulundi, then settlers to expand.

I notice that we've found Joao to the West. - We should explore further here (by land or sea) to determine his size.

Perhaps settle the land West of Ulundi to prevent Joao coming East???

And how big is the land going to the south pole?

Also...As we haven't found anyone else yet...It looking more like we will need Caravels....But as a decision point do we tech there ourselves or remain isolated but pick up the wonder tech's. - I suspect we should explore the world to ensure we remain at least on par with the AI nations incase we find a continent full of fast tech'ers out there. - If we meet the Indians, Chinese or Malians I would target them next for military strike. (We might want to squeeze in a quick war against Joao before we get Galleons, but I would do this after Feudalism to try and vassalise Joao....(Although watch his expansion via carracks.)... We should have HBR before this war.

Therefore I think the next turn set should involve capture of Ulundi, more exploration and expansion with Tech towards Optics (as mentioned elsewhere.)
 
We should not vassalize anyone (except at the end possibly - or a very backward AI), because if he builds a Wonder, we have no chance to get it after :)
 
Guys. - I suspect we wont have time to complete this game. (Mid Dec finish I think?)

I think our priority now should be to avoid the wooden spoon. - Lets see if we can get a few more turn sets complete, and boost our score by whatever means possible.
 
I apologize, somehow I didn´t find the motivation to continue this game, but it seems I was not all alone.

Either we play this done real quick or we give up.

Anyone still there?
 
To be honnest, I would rather give up than rush it. It would at least give everyone (including me) the choice of either playing it on his own with his own ideas and/or lurk the others teams threads to see if at least we had some good plans/ideas or were completely out of the race for any medal...

I also don't have lots of time for Civ right now and rush playing is not something I can easily do (I will always try to adjust at bit of everything, and end up playing longer than expected) will probably not help finishing the game
 
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