SGOTM 08 - The Real Ms. Beyond

[Jabah]

No pb, go ahead.

But just before commiting to the 'real turnset'.

What do we want to research and build first ?

Being monarch (only), I would go for worker first (then warrior - WB - settler ?).
We need very soon Animal H - fishing - BW (in this order?)


Jabah

PS - It could be a good idea to know when exactly someone is playing to possibly have others online to get a quick answer if a minor problem happens (instead of stopping for a longer time).

PS2 - I could be often online during work time (european time of course, no access to civ of course as well). I could also manage late evening but Week-End are very 'familly dependant' during the day.

 

[Kodii]

Maybe put together a list of available online times for everyone?

 

[timmy827]

Techpath sounds good. As for build order, maybe a 2nd WB before settler - depends on size of land to our east and whether it can make it to the fish in reasonable time.

 

[TheArchduke]

As we got gold nearby, worker first is an easy decision.

 

[TheArchduke]

Moved the scout. I think the best place for our city is in place (suprisingly).

I wait for some more input, but I think the first turnset is pretty straightforward. Get a worker first and explore immeadite surroundings so we get a better idea of our position.

 

[gOng_civ']

Everything sounds nice... But what you think about that; warrior-scout-WB and/or worker - settler.. It's a little bit slower way to start but then there will be all basics fine - next should be a first wonder...

*edit*PS. off course, "worker first" -case would be smarter way to the start

 

[orb]

We need to get food production as a top priority so it's a toss up between fishing and AH.

I would tend to go fishing/AH/BW..to get the ability to build the work boat as soon as possible after the worker/warrior....especially if the worker mines the gold first to boost research....but I haven't checked the numbers. (If it's a quicker route to get better food by getting the cows connected first by going AH then go for it.)

Also (Just so that I'm with the plan) are you thinking BW (3rd tech) to chop first settler then sailing?? (4th tech) to start on GLH? (Aided by worker chop/mining the hills?)---Important that we dont miss this one to an AI.

Then at some point we need wheel (5th tech?) to connect all the lovely resources we will find. (Confidence)

As for scout.....He didn't really reveal much of interest....I say you should scout around to the West posting another screen shot if you find something of interest (Second city site? - Resource that will help build wonders? - Or contact with another civ?) - Otherwise just keep scouting until end of turn.

As per Timmy827 I'm also interested in the land to the East...Is that a headland that we can send a workboat round or a causeway such that the sea to the north is not connected to the sea to the south??? - If they are not connected then we should have another city on the southern shore to galley over to the marble.

 

[Jabah]

BW would be for chopping (settler or wonder) but also to find copper (luckily on the 'empty' hill south?). If we are isolated, crashing our economy with too many cities is a great risk and we should (until getting the 'economy' tech like CoL or Currency) found only cities that are bringing valuable ressource (metal/marble/stone/happy/GP farm).
Once we have GLH, we should of course try to have 4 cities (if possible on various land mass).

As a sidenote, we will need also masonry for GLH.

On Monarch, I don't think GLH will fall too early (famous last words...) and I would try to get Oracle before as it is more at risk.

[I suggest that we consider trying to 'Oracle' Theology for religion+AP if we are isolated]

 

[TheArchduke]

I will go with worker-workboat for a jumpstart to our economy. It is monarch after all so no panic there.

Also I will start with fishing(naturally to get the workboat), AH and BW so the worker can be busy. Will play the remaining 19 turns of the first turnset now, I propose we go with 20 the first time around and then reduce the turns per player to 15.

 

[TheArchduke]

First of all, worker-first is definetly the way to go. We are on the end of a jungle infested penninsula nearly blocked out by Shaka to the west. Only marble island makes me look forward.

Here is the link http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm8/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG008_BC3200_01.CivBeyondSwordSave to the save.

Turn 1

I settle in place, start fishing and a worker.

Turn 5

Fishing is done.

Turn 14

Worker is finished, and I begin workboat and start on the mine.

Turn 17

I use my worker to quickly scout the eastern penninsula, as AH takes 2 more turns anyway.

Turn 20 I start on the pasture.

I attached a little overview screenie.

 

[TheArchduke]

Basically I don´t see too many thrilling city sites nearby. If marble island has another fish food bordering the shores, it may be worth to have a city there. The pigs to the south don´t make a great city. And to the west we need iron working to get a city alive. There are two unknown reachable islands to the north and south that we should scout out with a workboat as soon as we got 2 nets up.


My suggestions. We should consider a very, very early Axeman rush against Shaka if we got copper, if not, we need to expand on the seas or go for iron working quickly. In any case, this map lends itself to the GLH. What do you guys think?

 

[Jabah]

Edit---too late ---
If you want to research Fishing first, I would suggest changing building to WB as soon as fishing is done (and at max production, working plain hill forrest 2W) and then continue the worker.
So research fishing-AH-BW
Prod worker (partiel)-WB-worker (finish).
end edit

Also for later.
Instead of a round number of turn (20-15 or else), I would prefer if we stop after certain point (like discovery of a tech, or important building done, or anything else).
While it is probably not a big issue at the beginning while we (almost) know what to do for the next ~40t, it will be

 

[gOng_civ']

Game looks very interesting o_O' ... I think same ways about the axeman; but I would also make galley to get scout explore at some point the seas to found some islands that should have some villages (have monarch-difficult/this gameplay much of villages and/or barbarians?)

 

[Jabah]

We need to know if we are 'alone' with Shaka or if everyone is not far behind.

Shaka seems a bit far to axe rush him immediately.
There are some 'OK' sites for cities, but most need culture (pig+elephant // fish+cow) and of course Copper is more important.

I think we should play quickly the next 8t to BW (probably less, next turn we should work gold+cow), with the worker starting to mine the only 'empty' hills (he can't do anything else) and depending on Copper situation decide what to do. (if/when WB finish either start a settler, an exploring WB or a warrior?)

We will need sailing and the wheel quite soon

 

[TheArchduke]

I agree the next player should make a quick 8 turns to BW and report back his findings.

We also need to assemble the roster. I made the first turnset. Jabah you wanna go next this weekend?

Current roster:

TheArchduke - just played

 

[Jabah]

There is 1 place, 1N of Pig which could be a decent early settling : with pig-hill + 2 hills (+forrest) in the 1st ring, we could have an early production (10hammer at size 4 and growing) site for military.

 

[orb]

Shaka!!!.- Great. - We are going to have to do something about him. Having an aggressive AI on our island changes our approach.

Agree he's too far away to rush (for now).

Shaka seems slow to tech, but very likely to DOW. - Therefore we cannot ignore the military techs.

Like the idea of the Isthmus city to block him in (potentially) but it would be difficult to get a settler that far over before he expands further.

I think our next priorities must be locate any copper then settler/connect this resource.

If no copper then we must strengthen our military. - quickly grab Archery, or go IW.

Advantages of getting Archery it's quick and allows us to push on for Oracle. - Theology - Then take out Shaka with our promoted Theocratic units. - Disadvantges of Archery...Archers are a defensive unit and would be needed in numbers if Shaka decided to attack. - We would have to spend a lot of resource on building weaker units instead of wonders (which is the aim of this game)...maybe chop a large archer force.

Or

If we go IW...Takes longer...risk of our warriors receiving an impi rush....but we would be better placed to take Shaka out.

Or

We could ignore Shaka for now (at our peril) push on for Oracle immediately

Agree with WB scouting.

Settling near the ivory should also be a priority in case there is no copper or iron and we need to wait for elephants to remove the Zulu threat.

If Shaka is on the other end of the island then his settler will go through the isthmus therefore I would now produce warrior1 to scout/fog bust to elephant, warrior2 to defend Yasod...and then settler1 to elephant.

What do you guys think?

 

[timmy827]

Not sure how Shaka has 15EP's to our 12, but watching that should indicate if there is anyone else around. Agree with the play-till-BW checkpoint. Recommend starting another WB after the current one finishes.

 

[TheArchduke]

The small amount of land should make barbarians less of an issue, but we should get rid of Shaka sooner then later. Next decision point is BW, I agree, the 2nd workboat should be a priority next.

 

[Jabah]

Agree with 2nd WB immediatly after (at least to scout around marble Island and the next island - our lovely SGOTM staff could have put the only copper there ).
No need to make 3 various plan depanding on copper right now. Just play the few turn upto BW before deciding.

Added:

Looking at the save, I suggest that next turn we work the gold+a 1/2 tile until the pasture is done (then swap 1/2 to pasture). The WB will be done in 5t and then we start the second WB to be done in 6t which is more or less the time the city grow to size3.
--> we don't really need the 1st WB to net the clam asap and it could go exploring (at least around marble island and settle fish for a better seafood)