SGOTM 09 - Misfits

[KaleLambiek]

2) Tech path after Astro finishes

From my previous post, we have several options:

a) Research Currency, then Gunpowder/Rifling
b) Reseach Gunpowder/Rifling while hoping an AI will finally trade Currency
c) Research Philo/Lib (and maybe Nationalism?), then either (a) or (b)
d) Build cash for several turns as obs/labs get built in key cities, then either (a), (b), or (c)

We should go for broke IMHO, each turn we dont research is basicaly say 500 beakers lost = half a turn lost in our game win.

Is taking a small time-out the thing to do? Or should we just go 100% and build gold all over the place?
Each turn we run 0% science is a turn we must run 2000 beakers to catch up again. I think building gold will get us to space fastest....

Currency - highly desired by us, known to HC and Hammi. Hammi needs one of Joao and WK to know it before he will trade, HC requires two more AIs to know it. It would help if Hammi and HC knew one another. Odds are poor that we will be able to get this in trade in time.

I totaly disagree, Currency is normaly earlier in my experience from the AI... I expect (and to be honest) or have been expecting for a while for currency to become available.

Philo - highly desirable to us for Lib, known only to Joao. He would require Hammi to know it, and probably for Angkor Wat to have been built. Not likely to be tradable soon.

This I agree

Diplomacy
If Hammi asks us to adopt Confu, how do we respond?

If Taoism spreads and Joao asks us to adopt it, how do we respond?

I think we stay without religion, if we can we want to spread Confu a little... Possibly run -fly- a missionary down to Joao and over sea's to other AI
1) They may spread it further $$$
2) Gives them incentive to go free religion (end of $$$)

Problem migh be, do we addopt FR in the mid term, or go with Pacifism/SoL/Rep mid term? If we are going to stick with OR/Pacifism for a while, it would well be worth addopting Confu...

Resource Deals

Good point about retrieving the resources and going for overseas deals. Also we can cancel the Marble <> 3 GPT deal with Hammi and sell Corn for 4 GPT

Civics

OR is costing us 6 or even 7 gpt, compared to paganism.
Why did we switch to OR, exactly?

For missionary gold in LM, while we can now we should get some missionaries out to HC and Joao for $$$

Espionage

We can now see HC's research, so dial him back to weight 1 but keep an eye on it - increase if necessary to keep research visible.

Yes, Lets get some EPs going to Shaka, as he seems to be doing quite well...

Great People

LM -

I think we want to get those two turns assuming its a GS that will help get the Lab a turn sooner in JH.

Not a bad deal. If we manipulate IT to produce an additional GP between the two from LM, the math gets more complex. As Kale demonstrated earlier, IT has strong tiles to work so the benefit of getting another GP earlier is a lot more questionable. I do not match his calculations exactly:

I will re-do my calculations... see what I come up with

I would go with the max specialists approach in both LM and IT. But I may have dropped or carried incorrectly somewhere - check my math!

Will do tonight

Cities and Builds

JH - Builds airport (4 turns, but with 31 overflow), then obs (2 turns, 27 overflow), lab (3 turns, 1 overflow) - 9 turns total, getting an extra TR and the +50% beakers up. Will grow at 9 turns as well, probably running a scientist at that point.

Alternative may be to steal the Corn from LM at some point for +6 food = faster growth... but we will see...

LM - Currently building a courthouse. With max scientists, will still be 19 hammers (3 turns) short when Astro completes. The courthouse will save a bit under 2 gpt (+2 EP, of course), while an obs will give 6.25 bpt (plus any increase in TR commerce). So leave the courthouse unfinished and begin an observatory.

Or build gold for 100% slider?

Sleeps - Unless we want some missionaries to get some value from OR, I guess this is an airport for future military purposes. 9 turns with growing next turn and adding the windmill tile, so it will take the whole turnset.

Airport IMHO

CiB - I think we want the cash.

Yes! But see if we can get the Colossus added someplace else with high(er) hammers (IT?)

SdL - Puts 1 more turn into Colossus, leaving it 2 hammers from done. Then switch to lighthouse, which will finish in 2 turns with some overflow. Start observatory, followed by lab (into next turnset).

Needs tweaking if we go Confu!

How about finishing the Courthouse!! 3.5gpt saved! Dont forget about the 1:2 Gold to Beaker conversion... Also we want to run 100% where possible, building gold is going to be needed if we want to keep that up!

IT - Alternate idea: once SdL and CiB are done putting hammers in, put some hammers into the Colossus if it is not yet built.

Gold is KING baby!

Bear Town - Switch immediately to settler (6 turns). Once done, finish granary (4 turns), then build workboat for IT's whales (we will have Astro, so it can get there). Work the watermill once it is ready (4 turns from now).

I would wait the 2 turns it will take BT to grow, we dont need that settler NOW.

New settlers:

SdL guy (can still move this turn) goes to Two Rivers site and settles next turn. Other settlers goes to Food Heaven, settles turn 7. Bear Town settler goes to Grapeville, settles turn 8.

I would suggest this SdL guy heads for food heaven, using the route south of the lake.
This is the same number of turns vs going north but has the option of settling Brown IF Joao hasnt got anything down there.

Red shirt should run ahaed of him to make sure there isnt a barb hiding in the fog.

Food Heaven - start lighthouse.

With the Pig and Fish (workboat from BT) a granary is much stronger IMHO to help it grow.

Worker Actions

The farming project is not all that urgent, and we need workers down south to road and build improvements at the new cities. So that will be my focus.

I disagree, the added food for Sleeps is important... We want atleast 2 workers here to farm to the Sleeps Wheat!!

I will need to look at the worker actions and military below and your second post more closely but I have to run now...

So more to follow later...

 

[KaleLambiek]

OK, just ran a couple world builder tests using the old test game. Two bits of bad news:

1) Drafting produces rifles, even once we can build paras.


EDIT: OK, found with further testing that #2 is OK - you do eventually get the cash once an AI builds the Colossus. Whew!

2) Finishing Astro obsoletes the Colossus...and does NOT give any gold for hammers invested!

1) Confirmed
Drafting gives Riffles or Infantry, no para's

2) Confirmed
Gold only when build

 

[ChrisFromLux]

1) Settling cities - try for brown dot, yes or no? Do we want 1 more settler now, 2 more, zero more? Where to build any additional settlers? Order of sites to be settled?

Note: I see Kale has crossposted while I write this, so that is one vote in. I like his idea of taking Food Heaven, Two Rivers, and Bear Town building a settler for Grapeville.

I like that idea as well ... especially if we decide to go after Joao instead of Hammi, he can invest his hammers in that 4th settler!

2) Tech path after Astro finishes

From my previous post, we have several options:

a) Research Currency, then Gunpowder/Rifling
b) Reseach Gunpowder/Rifling while hoping an AI will finally trade Currency
c) Research Philo/Lib (and maybe Nationalism?), then either (a) or (b)
d) Build cash for several turns as obs/labs get built in key cities, then either (a), (b), or (c)

I would go a), if Currency still isn't available. We need those extra, foreign traderoutes.

I would not go d) I think, because it will take an eternity for these Obs/Labs to earn back the lost beakers. Gut feeling though, I didn't do any calculations

HBR - Not an important tech for us. Shaka, HC, and Joao know it. Joao will trade if Hammi gets it; HC will trade if either of WK or Stalin gets it.

Not important at all ... just take it whenever it is available and we have a tech we want to gift anyway.

Aesthetics - useful as a prereq to Lit and the Epics. Known by HC, WK, and Hammi, but presumably none will trade until Shwedagon is built. WK we are not trading with, Hammi should trade once the wonder is built, and HC would require one more AI to know it.

Same as above ... we should take it whenever it's available, but I guess those techs and the 10xp-unit will come too late for the HE to be built before we start Paratroopers.

Currency - highly desired by us, known to HC and Hammi. Hammi needs one of Joao and WK to know it before he will trade, HC requires two more AIs to know it. It would help if Hammi and HC knew one another. Odds are poor that we will be able to get this in trade in time.

That's why I suggest teching it ourselves, after Astro, if still not available.

Philo - highly desirable to us for Lib, known only to Joao. He would require Hammi to know it, and probably for Angkor Wat to have been built. Not likely to be tradable soon.

Not very probable to trade for it, but we still have time. If it's isn't available after Rifling, we should tech it ourselves, on the way to Liberalism.

If Hammi asks us to adopt Confu, how do we respond?

If Taoism spreads and Joao asks us to adopt it, how do we respond?

If any religion spreads from overseas ...

I would not adopt a religion and take that turn of Anarchy. I want to adopt FR once Liberalism is in, for more happiness, no religious problems and +10% science!

Possible thought -- wait on deals until have Currency, then pull in as much cash as possible while still gaining diplo bonuses. More gold = more research = sooner launch date.

I think this is a good idea. As stated above, Currency should come immediately after Astro (latest), and then get the best available trades.

OR is costing us 6 or even 7 gpt, compared to paganism. Do we switch to Confu, and at least get the building bonus for our obs/labs/airports? Would wreck our diplo for trading, though. Or swap back to Paganism - ouch on anarchy? Stand pat and continue bleeding cash?

Why did we switch to OR, exactly?

Well, we switched to OR to build some missionaries, for more cash from our shrine, as those invested hammers pay off quickly. (Kale did the calculations in some post ...).

That's also why I suggest building some missionaries somewhere rolleyes, before Liberalism. If we don't build some, well, then adopting OR was a mistake
In Sleep's, after the Airport and before Paras?

We can now see HC's research, so dial him back to weight 1 but keep an eye on it - increase if necessary to keep research visible.

We are in danger of no longer being able to see demos for Hammi and Joao. Do we care? If yes, put weight 1 on each, and a final weight 1 on WK to eventually see his demos and research. If not, put all remaining wieght wherever -- who might we want to target?

If we plan on attacking Joao instead of Hammi, I would split Espionage between HC and Hammi.

If we go on with our Hammi-plan, share them between HC (enough to see his research), as well as Joao and Wang Kon.

Stalin and Shaka won't be needed, I think ...

Cities and Builds

[...]

Do we want to keep putting hammers into Colossus for as long as possible? Or start the observatory as soon as Astro comes in? I think we want the cash.

No more Colossus-building if Astro is in

All other city-plans look good IMHO.

SdL guy (can still move this turn) goes to Two Rivers site and settles next turn. Other settlers goes to Food Heaven, settles turn 7. Bear Town settler goes to Grapeville, settles turn 8.

If SdL guy goes to Food Heaven and other settler to TR, they settle T5 and T6. So for one turn delay at Food Heaven we can settler TR 6 turns early. Our costs are definitely going to jump with three new cities so close together, but we need to get these sites growing and developing.

Good point; I would have simply settled the furthest city first, to make sure to get it before the AI and not even checking the turns the settlers will take

The farming project is not all that urgent, and we need workers down south to road and build improvements at the new cities. So that will be my focus.

I agree with one of Kale's posts: it is important to irrigate towards Sleep's Shock. At least 2 workers should work on this.

And remember that other Kale-post, where he said that there was a flaw in his plan (farm outside culture) and that I simply put the sign down

 

[ChrisFromLux]

Yes, Lets get some EPs going to Shaka, as he seems to be doing quite well...

Yes, he seems doing better than normal, but I don't think he will be able to keep up with HC, Hammi or WK ...

Is it really necessary to see his research? Or simply take some backwards-techs he comes up with?

1) Confirmed
Drafting gives Riffles or Infantry, no para's

Yes, and here's another confirmation; Drafting goes: Longbowmen > Musketmen > Riflemen > Infantry > Mech. Infantry

 

[JerichoHill]

Post swallowed by hitting wrong button

1) We should flat out gun research
2) No reason to EP Shaka
3) Hammi is closer, less distance maintenance. Go for him.
4) If we adopt a religion, then OR gives us 25% faster production of buildings

 

[KaleLambiek]

Free Religion
10% extra research, seems great, but what does it actually come down to??
JH has Lib/Uni/Academy/Oxford/Obs/Lab for +250% beakers.
Assume JH at 100 commerce at 100%, this would add 350 beakers. The 10% of FR then gives 10% of 100 (not 10% of 350!) = 10 additional beakers.
Or an increase of 2.8% beakers.

Lets assume all other cities (8 on average) will get 40 commerce = 4 extra beakers per turn. 10 + 8 * 4 = 42 beakers per turn.

Pacifism vs Free Religion
A settled, non-rep Scientists in JH gives 21 beakers...
At 469, 536, 603 and 670, running Free Religion it will take (at 32 gpp/turn) 14.6 + 16.75 + 18.8 + 20.9 = 71.2 turns to get the 4 GPs out.
If we run Pacifism it takes 9.7 + 11.2 + 12.5 + 13.9 = 47.5 turns
+ 804 / 48 = 16.75 turns to GP#5, total 64 turns

This means we get the first 4 turns early. 4 hammers + 84 beakers
The second 10 turns earlier +10 hammers + 210 beakers
The third 16 turns earlier +16 hammers + 336 beakers
The fourth 23 turns earlier +23 hammers +483 beakers
The fifth is a total extra GP at turn 64, +7 hammers +126 beakers.
A total of 59 hammers and 1,239 beakers.

Of course this only measures GPP generated in LM, but 1,239 beakers / 71 turns = 17.45 beakers/turn extra for running Pacifism for LM, assuming all Scientists. So unless we can add benifit running Scientists in IT/CdL/FH running Free Religion is going to be better than running non-rep-pacifism.
And adds 59 hammers .... relatively minor but still say 2 turns worth of production in JH (current 27 base).

Rep enhanced Scientists give JH 31.5 beakers.
Hammers stay the same, but beakers changed considerably to +126 +315 +504 +724 +189 = 1,858 beakers / 71 = 26.1 beakers/turn, getting this up to 42 beakers per turn (FR benifit) is going to take quite some doing...

It would seem to me like unless we can get considerably more GPs / GPP from other cities running Pacifism compared to Free Religion is going to be USELESS for beakers... Free Religion seems to be the way to go. If FR > Pacifism, we dont want to addopt Confu now.

Getting GPs from LM/IT << GPs = GSs! Just making sure the RNG understands!
There are 2 differences between Hap's and Mine comparison for the rushed GS's from LM and IT
1) GPP
Hap's is optimized to generate the GP exactly "on mark" for a total of 240 points while mine was overproducing 12... Gets a bit more commerce in Hap's example
2) Beakers
I neglected to account for the additional beakers the Scientists give us, this makes a serious dent in my figures.
I.e. For 6 turns running 3 additional scienists (for a total of 5), you lose out on 15 beakers/turn because you are not working tiles, but instead you get 3 * 3 * 150% = 13.5. The net loss therefor is not 15 beakers, but 'only' 1.5 beakers/turn.

The second in particular makes a big difference of course! and makes the GS more valuable to have, lets do this.

I think Crippling SdL is not a good idea, adding scientists as it grows, sure, crippling it now? No...

Worker Actions
- Emmett Brown
Winery for trade, perfect! And a pretty decent tile to work too

- Fearless
He needs to put down a road on that tile as well, in order for us to be able to handle any barb landing quickly. Perhaps moving "away" -but still in range- some of the defenders will make the city appear weaker and more barbs may land?? As well as moving away the Triremes? Also, 1 Trireme on the Clams is the same as no trireme. If it gets attacked by 2 galleys its dead... Make sure to retreat that atleast 1 tile or even all the way to the city (or more south), leaving it on the clams is a guarantee for a dead Trireme.

- Einstein/JV/DL
Why have 3 workers roading? 2 is more than enough to build a road in one turn, also a road is USELESS unless we get movement benifit from it, we will get traderoutes via the coast.
Road where applicable, i.e. if a worker lands on a 2 move tile, otherwize maybe move 1/road may work, but getting worker(s) down to Farm, Mine Iron, Windmill hills, Pasture Pigs, Watermill rivers is much more improtant to get done ASAP, than building bleeding roads!
Roads where we get movement bonus (on the settler or trailing workers), otherwize skip it and have the leading workers start improving for real ASAP. The trailing workers can then build their own road...

- Arcadic
All tiles should be prepared, but also roaded... as we will need to revisit the tiles to finish the mills.
S, SE, S-SE of JH in that order is what they need to be finished to make the 3 watermills fit for sure.
By the way, 3 forests @ 35 hammers per forest = 1 extra Para

- Obama & CiB
Good spot!

- Thorrez
It seems to work nicely, but do we want to farm or watermill the FP? It needs atleast 6 food to work all its tiles, 2 will come from the lake, 1 from the FP 2 from CC for a total of 5 ( 1 food short!) .
If we want Two Rivers to grow fast we start a farm on the FP, offcourse the 2 hammers early can help speed up the granary which will then add food
How do we get Two Rivers up in POP ASAP? Farm I think?

- Biff
ROADS! to connect the furs, I am sure you didnt forget
Also the last fur currently is out of culture... dont know if we get a culture bump in time for this to be hooked up.

Research list
There is exactly 1! tech that can get the 40% modifier ALL others are 20%

The 6 GS is just a means of comparison, I didnt do any math to justify the numbers.
Even with 6GS (or 4 rep-GS) and Obs/Lab we will get around 600 beakers from our current empire, about 400 short!
We will get say +5 commerce total per city at +50% beakers for 5 research cities 37.5 beakers.
An average city at 40 commerce total (including above commerce) we add 50% from obs/lab 5 * 20 = 100
That STILL leaves us 262.5 short.

Now Rep will add 2 settled GPs (4.5 beakers each) + 5 specialists in LM (again 4.5 each) = 7 * 4.5 = 31.5 beakers (231 beakers short)

We get 3 additional cities soon, lets assume them too at 40 commerce each (later on) and +50% (lib/Uni) beakers good for 60 beakers = 180 total. (51 beakers short)

And on top of that we need to compensate for all the turns we are below average by going over it, so we need to go to 1200 not 1000 beakers.
IMHO we cannot do this without assimulating Hammies cities and turning them around for our research.

Taking out Radio (bulbed with Lib) adding in Lib we need 112.011 / 95 = 1180 beakers/turn / 120% = 980 beakers/turn
The one tech we can get 40% on will save 500 or so beakers. Lets say we get lucky and trade for Guilds, Chemistry and Combustion for 500 + 1001 + 1802 + 3605 = 6908 saved.
112011 - 6908 = 105103 => 1106 => 920 beakers/turn required, but this is beeing very optimistic I think...

Then I think we want to finish on turn 200 or before, so 87 turns from now we want to have researched our final tech (why 87? Just because ) for this we would need 1006 beakers (if we need 115k total) or 1073 if we need 112k
What will we trade for beyond Engineering/Feudalism/Currency? There is a bottle neck at:
Steam power (need Engineering > Chemistry)
Assembly line (need Guild > Banking > Economics > Coorporation)
Plastics (need Steel > Railroad > combustion)

And we want Biology relatively early both for added food to Sleeps and Grape and the NP, but with very few/actually no mines at the moment (with Windmills beeing so strong) we may not have much use for RailRoads for a while and can leave that to be picked up in trade.
I dont see much (deep) beelining to allow the AI time to research techs we NEED for space, Fission, Genetics

Trading for PP may be possible but when? Even if we gift around Paper/Education/Lib it may take the AI a while to actually pick it as a research target. The average AI seems rather shy of PP for some reason.... If we want SoL we will have to self research Democracy after getting PP in trade, because while SoL is not build I doubt any AI will trade it to us.
Or do we just self research it and go with it? I could see a case where we are just going to leave all AI behind... Each city we capture is 100 gold splitting of those cities to semi-usefull size colonies and gifting then cities to these colonies to make them happy with us, steering their research to specific goals... maybe that can work?
But I really dont see the AI comming up with late game techs that we can trade for AND need.

Building lists
A obs in LM is nice, but if we can get currency (one way or another) a Market is better at the same hammer investment. 5 gold at 1:2 converted to beakers gives 10 beakers vs the 6.25 for the Obs.

Laboratories and Space
Yes they boost spaceship parts, but only in selected cities that will actually be building the Gross of our parts and then probably only for the BIG parts where they actually save turns.
Surely this will not be in i.e. LM or CiB.

Apollo we need, but only at such a time that we can finish the parts in proper order, no sense in having 10 parts ready and then having to wait 10 turns before we research Fusion <or insert another space part tech> and start building the last part.
If we semi-beeline Rocketery we have a lot of techs still to research and we can use Apollo for some gold building which we can determain when to finish ourselves, not be dependent on the AI.

Eifel tower we will want to boost Hit singles even more (along with Odeon), it capitulates on our UB! Thus building some gold from it we can determain (or should be able to) when we get that stored gold. We have Iron so it should be nice to share it around a bit.
HE/Hermitage and Apollo are National wonders, so we have full 100% guarantee controle over it. Offcourse we need to finish it ourselves, so i.e. Hermitage is not usefull to build by itself. We wont have a specific purpose for it... so it is only profitable if we can atleast build it atleast a full second time to convert (net) 1:1.
To really turn a profit we need a full third build for 1:1.3 and a forth build for 1:1.5 and an eight build for 1:1.75
HE we may or may not want... at some point to be desided later on. NE we probably want ASAP? Together with NP in CiB <or Babylon>? But that dont need to be finished before NP, so we can build NE to 1 turn in <the NP city>, then build it all over the place to ultimatly build NP followed by NE one turn later and Cash-a-mundo $$$ the other builds at 1:2.25 conversion.
The added 'problem' is that we instead of having a steady influx of 20gpt, we will get 0 for a lot of turns and then get 1000 gold as a lumb sum... so we have to really consider the usefullness....

We will see about the Space Elevator, it requires an additional tech that is not in the list... plus it comes pretty late... it MAY save a turn but we can check this (much) later

The gorge dam, we can build it in JH, why build it anywhere else? We will probably only build a coal plant in JH and MAYBE Sleeps, all other cities will get power for The Gorge.

Researching Astronomy
With the build queue in JH (still our foremost city) not beeing able to start Observatory inside of 4 turns, perhaps we can delay Astronomy 1 turn?
Run 1 turn 0% now (not delaying anything in JH really), research Astro in 3 turns allow for 1 more turn on Colossus build.

It is probably not a good idea to delay building Obs/Lab everywhere, but I am doubting we want to build them now even... Rather than just outright gold, dropping the slider 10% costs us 35 beakers in JH + 6 beakers per other city where Obs adds only 10 beakers.
Theoreticaly assuming we can keep a high slider building +% research buildings seems like a good idea... but will we keep a high (enough) slider without the build gold?
Gunpowder > rifling 1201 + 2403 = 3604 beakers, that is ~7 turns delaying this 5 turns to build Obs/Lab in JH doesnt seem like a good plan to me??

Colossus
With 2 more turns on "Colossus gold" available (+ the 1 turn in SdL) we want out most productive city to sink hammers into it where possible.
IT can produce 16 where CiB only has 8, we should be building it in IT and reverse the IT specialists plan. Work as much hammers as possible NOW, work more specialists later to get the GP inside 10 turns. GPP now or on turn 9 shouldnt matter right? Getting more hammers to Colossus NOW does!
So IMHO:
Run all scientists in IT this turn
Minimize the scientists 2 turns building Colossus
Run all scientists post colossus build

Then again it is a couple of gold... does it matter THAT much? Maybe not...

Settling
If we run both settlers ... both settle on turn 5, if we settle Two Rivers ASAP that is 2 turns and 8 for Food heaven, so it is +3 and -3. I would like to see Food heaven settled ASAP just in case there is a Joao settler lurking in the fog.
Also for Caste Food heaven is just the better city, lets not delay settling that.
Both Cities though should start a granary not a lighthouse although at two rivers it is a toss up... I would really farm the FP to jump start its food, not watermill it.

Can anyone do a sim or something what is better for growing TR?

 

[KaleLambiek]

Does anyone know what lategame techs get bulbed by a GS?

 

[haphazard1]

A few quick thoughts - more detailed stuff later.

1) Looks like the consensus is to keep researching full speed. So no pause to build cash. If Currency is not available when we finish Astro (3 turns), we research it ourselves and then go for Gunpowder/Rifling.

2) Adopting a religion will prevent us from getting HC to friendly for trading. I think we need to reject any demands to convert.

3) Colossus -- 1 more turn from SdL, then 1 turn from CiB. Then we will discover Astro, so that is all we can put into it.

4) Bear Town and a third settler -- why delay the settler two turns so that Bear Town can grow and work an unimproved tile? I think we want Grapeville founded ASAP.

5) Farm project -- we have an issue with the marked tiles -- not all of them are within our culture (right now). Founding Grapeville will take care of that -- another reason to found it ASAP. There will be two workers available to continue the farming -- after roading the wheat that worker will be available, plus Fearless after it finishes the watermill. I will also emphasize getting the rice for Grapeville improved ASAP, so it will have a strong tile available immediately.

With three more cities founded this turnset, we will have 10 cities and 10 workers. Is this enough? We still have improvement needs even at JH (to pre-watermill), and the new cities will need quite a bit of work. Plus roading, plus farming project...should we add another worker or two to our queues? Or live with what we have? We will get more workers when we conquer Hammi, but will probably need those to get his cities up to speed. Maybe one or two more would be useful?

6) Work boats -- good point about needing one for FH. So BearTown can produce two after the Grapeville settler and finishing the granary. First will head south for FH (needs a trireme to cover?), then the second can hook up the whales by IT.

More details later, got to get back to work.

 

[KaleLambiek]

3) 1 turn at SdL and 2 turns at CiB, 3 turns to Astro, right?

4) Makes sense I guess, just so used to building settlers after growing

5) I know, I noted that earlier (and Chris noted me noting it)
One tile thats outside our cutlure needs to go 1 north, unless we can time settling GrapeVille and the farm project.... But I doubt that. Then again farming the rice first could be an option. Settler takes 6 turns to build, farm, road rice... could work
Fearless is needed (badly) at Bear town, it is IMHO NOT available to go anywhere / do anything but add a preserve to that current barb riverside tile, I would sacrifice a 3xp C1 Mace to remove them ASAP (bomb with Zeps, 3xp mace, clean up with 6 and 7 xps). So we can add that preserve and not be worried about those barbs anymore...

10 cities - 10 workers, true, but...
CiB doenst need many more turns (1 maybe 2 windmills)
LM doesnt need many more turns (maybe something like 4 turns for the 2 cottages?)
SdL doesnt nmmt (1 windmill left... but we may want to run scientists here)
Sleeps doesnt nmmt (beyond the farming project)

In effect 6 cities 10 workers, but maybe an extra worker would be nice... Bear town IMHO would then be the place to build it
Settler > Granary (1 turn) > Worker > Granary

Then again FH doesnt nmmt, only needs a pasture and maybe 2 windmills, which would make it 5 and 10, should be enough shouldnt it?

6) We need actually 2 workboats for FH AND one for the whales! (I forgot about them damn whales )

7) Scientist plan at IT
5 for 6 turns 180 gpp
4 for 1 turn 24 gpp
3 for 2 turns 36 gpp = 240 needed (not 3 for 3 turns as per your post Hap)

If we turn that around
3 for 2
4 for 1
5 for 6
We get 11 + 11 + 7 hammers on the first 3 turns enough to finish the Courthouse, which currently needs 23 hammers and immediately start the Obs instead of leaving the Courthouse unfinished in the queue.

8) SdL
At 18 hammers/turn (15 + 25% from the forge) ... it needs 24 and 21 hammers on the Lighthouse and Courthouse, lets finish them both before starting an Obs there. Only delays the Obs 1 turn (7 beakers), vs 6 turns we would delay the courthouse at 3.5gpt * 6 = 21 gold at 1:2 = 42 beakers.

9) CiB
30 / 80 on the courthouse when we get Astro. 5 turns to finish the courthouse
10 turns to build the obs. Delay courthouse 10 turns for 2gpt = 20 gold = 40 beakers
Delay Obs for 5 turns @ 8 beakers = 40 beakers, this is a toss up... I would probably finish the courthouse before starting the Obs.

10) LM
To generate a GP in 5 turns it can run 2 turns 7 specialists (total) @ 44gpp leaving 201 - 88 = 113
Then return one specialist to work for 2 (rounded) hammers @ 38gpp for 3 turns = 114GPP
Courthouse now has 37 hammers, + 8 + 8 + 10 = 63 / 80
The courthouse is done in 2 turns, so we delay the Observatory for 2 turns cost 20 beakers
To delay the courthouse 10 turns at 2gpt = 20 gold = 40 beakers, finish the courthouse first!

Obs or Market?
Market = 5gpt = 10 beakers vs 10 beakers with the Obs doesnt make much difference at the same hammer cost, but definatly Market before the Lab...Less hammer cost, same gain.

 

[KaleLambiek]

Research as I see it...
Astro (3)
Rifling (7)
Nationalism (6) (enable gold building into Taj) <share paper + education around when nearly finished>
Lib (3) (radio, enable Gold building into Eifel and build Christo)
Democracy (13) (revolt to Rep/FR when Christo done)

Build in JH:
Airport (4) > Obs (2) > Lab (3) > Zeppelin (1 turn) > Missionary/gold (1) > Finish Zeppelin (1) > (good overflow to) Para's (atleast 6 in a row, for the next 10 turns)

Build in Sleeps:
Airport 167 - 23 = 144 / 20 = 1 turn + 7 turns + 4 hammers
Work the Tundra hill instead of the Wine this turn for
25 + 7 turns * 20 + 2 hammers => find these 2 hammers someplace (work a plains preserve 2 turns intead of the wine) to build the Airport in 8 turns.
2 turns to build a missionary with good overflow to a Paratrooper (atleast 3 in a row over 15 turns, probably 1 or 2 more though).

11) Trade/gold
We can probably ask our friend-o-friend-o-big-pall-of-ours Hammi for his 40g, else sell our map for his + 40g? Gift/Sell him MC, so he can build Forges instead of units and possibly build Colossus instead of units??
Edit: And sell Hammi our Wine for 1 gpt? We get 2 new Wine soon anyway and we dont need the happy at the moment.
Do we want to 'sell' HC Civil Service for his 110 gold?? Or sell our world map for his world map + 110 gold?

Edit2:
Ask our big hatter for his Wheat so we can sell it to Hammi for 1 gpt

 

[haphazard1]

I totaly disagree, Currency is normaly earlier in my experience from the AI... I expect (and to be honest) or have been expecting for a while for currency to become available.

I was also hoping it would become available, but so far...not. If Joao or WK is researching it, we might get it. Otherwise both Stalin and Shaka would have to finish it in the next 3 turns...not likely.

Probably we end up researching it ourselves.

I think we stay without religion, if we can we want to spread Confu a little... Possibly run -fly- a missionary down to Joao and over sea's to other AI
1) They may spread it further $$$
2) Gives them incentive to go free religion (end of $$$)

Problem migh be, do we addopt FR in the mid term, or go with Pacifism/SoL/Rep mid term? If we are going to stick with OR/Pacifism for a while, it would well be worth addopting Confu...

But if we adopt Confu, opportunities for friendly trade with HC disappear. We also push Joao back into "likely to declare" territory. Hammi would like us, of course, but we are planning for him to shortly cease to exist.

And as your later calculation show, Pacifism does not help us greatly, at least right now. Maybe with several Confu multi-specialist cities it would, but FH is not settled and developed yet.

Good point about retrieving the resources and going for overseas deals. Also we can cancel the Marble <> 3 GPT deal with Hammi and sell Corn for 4 GPT

A lot will depend on what the overseas AIs have available, but I will go for Currency (trade or self-tech) right after Astro, and then deal. We should be able to start accumulating resource diplo and still get some useful cash.

For missionary gold in LM, while we can now we should get some missionaries out to HC and Joao for $$$

Where should these missionaries be built? Unless we skip observatories in our lower commerce cities, which seems questionable to me. We calculated that the obs would take roughly 50 turns to pay off -- a long time, but definitely within the expected duration of the game. But if we delay building them, then we might as well not bother doing so. Maybe building missionaries is a better choice? I agree on sending some overseas by airport if we can, and hoping the AIs will do some spreading for us. Not likely unless they run OR, but maybe.

Yes, Lets get some EPs going to Shaka, as he seems to be doing quite well...

Shaka? WK? Keep some on Joao? Thoughts on this are still pretty scattered. I do not think we will have enough to actually run missions against anyone, so seeing research is probably the best we can hope for. Which AI would we most like to know what they are teching?

I think we want to get those two turns assuming its a GS that will help get the Lab a turn sooner in JH.

What to do if we get another prophet? Settle in LM? Hold onto as golden age fodder? If we get a GE, presumably we save it for Cristo or SoL. GS goes right to JH and settles.

Alternative may be to steal the Corn from LM at some point for +6 food = faster growth... but we will see...

If we want to keep lots of scientists running in LM, we can not really steal the food.

Needs tweaking if we go Confu!

I do not think we can go Confu -- we must get more techs in trade if we are to make it to space, and that requires us to get a friendly trade partner, preferably HC.

How about finishing the Courthouse!! 3.5gpt saved! Dont forget about the 1:2 Gold to Beaker conversion.

Yes, I missed the partially-built courthouse. That will be well worth finishing. I will re-check all cities for partially-completed buildings.

I would suggest this SdL guy heads for food heaven, using the route south of the lake.
This is the same number of turns vs going north but has the option of settling Brown IF Joao hasnt got anything down there.

Red shirt should run ahaed of him to make sure there isnt a barb hiding in the fog.

Do we even want to settle Brown? If we do, I agree that sending this guy south immediately is the way to do it. But that means we need another settler from somewhere, even more worker turns down south, further drain on our economy.... I am thinking we skip brown dot, and maybe take it from Joao later if we decide we want it.

All settlers will be fully fog-busted, absolutely!

With the Pig and Fish (workboat from BT) a granary is much stronger IMHO to help it grow.

We can build a granary, but the lighthouse will turn the lake tiles into 3 food without needing worker turns or WBs. Without slavery, it will take quite a while to build anything here. We need worker turns to get a couple windmills up -- some hammers are necessary to build anything. Of course we can just run specialists, since we are in caste. Merchants, since we will have no +beaker buildings? The raw gold will be worth more than raw beakers 1:1.

I disagree, the added food for Sleeps is important... We want atleast 2 workers here to farm to the Sleeps Wheat!!

I will need to look at the worker actions and military below and your second post more closely but I have to run now...

So more to follow later...

All suggestions welcome! I do not see the farm project as hugely urgent, until Bio is available to really make those farms pay off. More food in Sleeps is good, yes, but getting improved tiles available at Bear Town and the new cities is more important than growing Sleeps a couple sizes.

Pacifism vs Free Religion

(lots of good stuff snipped because of the 30K character limit)

It would seem to me like unless we can get considerably more GPs / GPP from other cities running Pacifism compared to Free Religion is going to be USELESS for beakers... Free Religion seems to be the way to go. If FR > Pacifism, we dont want to addopt Confu now.

Nice work on the calcs! I agree that for now Confu and Pacifism does not help us enough. Maybe if we turn FH into a pure caste specialist town -- pigs, fish, other seafood, 3 food lake tiles => rapid growth and lots of specialists. But it will take time to get the city ready (build granary and lighthouse, grow to size 10+). We should keep Pacifism in mind for later, preferably once we have Cristo and can micro turns with tons of specialists alternating with turns of working all tiles for growth + hammers.

Getting GPs from LM/IT << GPs = GSs! Just making sure the RNG understands!
There are 2 differences between Hap's and Mine comparison for the rushed GS's from LM and IT
1) GPP
Hap's is optimized to generate the GP exactly "on mark" for a total of 240 points while mine was overproducing 12... Gets a bit more commerce in Hap's example
2) Beakers
I neglected to account for the additional beakers the Scientists give us, this makes a serious dent in my figures.
I.e. For 6 turns running 3 additional scienists (for a total of 5), you lose out on 15 beakers/turn because you are not working tiles, but instead you get 3 * 3 * 150% = 13.5. The net loss therefor is not 15 beakers, but 'only' 1.5 beakers/turn.

The second in particular makes a big difference of course! and makes the GS more valuable to have, lets do this.

I think Crippling SdL is not a good idea, adding scientists as it grows, sure, crippling it now? No...

OK, the scientist beaker bit makes sense -- I was wondering how our calcs got so different!

Worker Actions
- Emmett Brown
Winery for trade, perfect! And a pretty decent tile to work too

And the rice for Grapeville, quickly after the wine. Maybe even before the wine.

- Fearless
He needs to put down a road on that tile as well, in order for us to be able to handle any barb landing quickly. Perhaps moving "away" -but still in range- some of the defenders will make the city appear weaker and more barbs may land?? As well as moving away the Triremes? Also, 1 Trireme on the Clams is the same as no trireme. If it gets attacked by 2 galleys its dead... Make sure to retreat that atleast 1 tile or even all the way to the city (or more south), leaving it on the clams is a guarantee for a dead Trireme.

Not sure I agree on retreating the trireme -- that means losing the seafood. Defending in coastal waters gives us +10% defense, and +50% against galleys (applied to the galley's strength). Most of the barb galley promotions are not combat-useful, so we kill one galley for sure and possibly two. Lose to the third almost certainly, but out other trireme will heal in a couple turns. I dislike just giving up the seafood.

- Einstein/JV/DL
Why have 3 workers roading? 2 is more than enough to build a road in one turn, also a road is USELESS unless we get movement benifit from it, we will get traderoutes via the coast.
Road where applicable, i.e. if a worker lands on a 2 move tile, otherwize maybe move 1/road may work, but getting worker(s) down to Farm, Mine Iron, Windmill hills, Pasture Pigs, Watermill rivers is much more improtant to get done ASAP, than building bleeding roads!
Roads where we get movement bonus (on the settler or trailing workers), otherwize skip it and have the leading workers start improving for real ASAP. The trailing workers can then build their own road...

I will try to get maximum value from the workers, but roads on only the 2-move spaces do not actually help if there is not a road on the adjacent tile.

- Arcadic
All tiles should be prepared, but also roaded... as we will need to revisit the tiles to finish the mills.
S, SE, S-SE of JH in that order is what they need to be finished to make the 3 watermills fit for sure.
By the way, 3 forests @ 35 hammers per forest = 1 extra Para

OK, I will label the tiles as they become "ready" for 1-turn conversion.

- Obama & CiB
Good spot!

- Thorrez
It seems to work nicely, but do we want to farm or watermill the FP? It needs atleast 6 food to work all its tiles, 2 will come from the lake, 1 from the FP 2 from CC for a total of 5 ( 1 food short!) .
If we want Two Rivers to grow fast we start a farm on the FP, offcourse the 2 hammers early can help speed up the granary which will then add food
How do we get Two Rivers up in POP ASAP? Farm I think?

I think we want the watermill, and maybe farm it over later. Without slavery, our new cities need some hammers right away to get initial improvements builts. TR will have the iron, though; maybe farm FP and mine iron for decent total food + hammers? I hate giving up 2 hammers and 2 commerce for 1 food, though.

- Biff
ROADS! to connect the furs, I am sure you didnt forget
Also the last fur currently is out of culture... dont know if we get a culture bump in time for this to be hooked up.

Good point on the culture. One of the furs is on the river, and does not need a road. But I will make sure they are hooked up.

Research list
What will we trade for beyond Engineering/Feudalism/Currency? There is a bottle neck at:
Steam power (need Engineering > Chemistry)
Assembly line (need Guild > Banking > Economics > Coorporation)
Plastics (need Steel > Railroad > combustion)

And we want Biology relatively early both for added food to Sleeps and Grape and the NP, but with very few/actually no mines at the moment (with Windmills beeing so strong) we may not have much use for RailRoads for a while and can leave that to be picked up in trade.
I dont see much (deep) beelining to allow the AI time to research techs we NEED for space, Fission, Genetics

Trading for PP may be possible but when? Even if we gift around Paper/Education/Lib it may take the AI a while to actually pick it as a research target. The average AI seems rather shy of PP for some reason.... If we want SoL we will have to self research Democracy after getting PP in trade, because while SoL is not build I doubt any AI will trade it to us.
Or do we just self research it and go with it? I could see a case where we are just going to leave all AI behind... Each city we capture is 100 gold splitting of those cities to semi-usefull size colonies and gifting then cities to these colonies to make them happy with us, steering their research to specific goals... maybe that can work?
But I really dont see the AI comming up with late game techs that we can trade for AND need.

It will not be easy, and we will need to feed techs to the surviving AIs. But even if we can get 2 or 3 mor techs from trade, it will help. The biggest risk is that by giving everything to the AIs, they will be our military equals...but it is the only way to have any chance of getting some techs by trade.

Building lists
A obs in LM is nice, but if we can get currency (one way or another) a Market is better at the same hammer investment. 5 gold at 1:2 converted to beakers gives 10 beakers vs the 6.25 for the Obs.

Good point. Keep working the courthouse until Currency obtained; probably finish courthouse if it is close enough, then market rather than observatory.

Laboratories and Space
Yes they boost spaceship parts, but only in selected cities that will actually be building the Gross of our parts and then probably only for the BIG parts where they actually save turns.
Surely this will not be in i.e. LM or CiB.

LM definitely no, CiB maybe maybe not. With two more windmills it will have reasonable hammers.

Lab gives +50% on SS parts. Assume minor cities will have a forge, and be building a part which has a doubler resources. So it will be +175% with lab rather than +125% without, or 2/11 saved. With lab costing 167 hammers, the city would need to build 752 hammers worth of SS parts to pay off pure hammers. Given the forge and resource bonus, that is about 1800 hammers (list value) SS parts, or 2.25 "small" parts (casings, thrusters, etc.).

The lab does also give +25% beakers, though, so we could take as a rough rule that any city which will build at least 2 small SS parts can profitably build a lab. I think SdL and IT both qualify; Bear Town probably will also. CiB...probably not. Grapeville...possibly, although it will have enough other development to do that it probably will not get around to a lab. Sleeps will need a lab, as it will be building enough parts to more than pay off.

If we build the Space Elevator, the return for a lab drops as the general SS parts bonus is larger everywhere. But it is questionable if we will do so, as it would require another (quite expensive) tech.

Apollo we need, but only at such a time that we can finish the parts in proper order, no sense in having 10 parts ready and then having to wait 10 turns before we research Fusion <or insert another space part tech> and start building the last part.
If we semi-beeline Rocketery we have a lot of techs still to research and we can use Apollo for some gold building which we can determain when to finish ourselves, not be dependent on the AI.

Early Apollo can give time for weaker cities to build minor parts, lightening the load on our primary hammer cities. There are lots of parts needed...we can not turn them all out in just a few key cities. The queues will just get too deep.

Eifel tower we will want to boost Hit singles even more (along with Odeon), it capitulates on our UB! Thus building some gold from it we can determain (or should be able to) when we get that stored gold. We have Iron so it should be nice to share it around a bit.

Agree that Eiffel will be a good gold target, as we do not need it until R&R is built (at least).

HE/Hermitage and Apollo are National wonders, so we have full 100% guarantee controle over it. Offcourse we need to finish it ourselves, so i.e. Hermitage is not usefull to build by itself. We wont have a specific purpose for it... so it is only profitable if we can atleast build it atleast a full second time to convert (net) 1:1.
To really turn a profit we need a full third build for 1:1.3 and a forth build for 1:1.5 and an eight build for 1:1.75

Hermitage is tricky. Needing to build it nearly-completely 3 times or more to really get any profit...not sure we will have that many hammers to spare. Need to spend on some factories at some point, may need other improvements like grocers or markets for health/happy/+gold. We will have to see.

HE we may or may not want... at some point to be desided later on. NE we probably want ASAP? Together with NP in CiB <or Babylon>? But that dont need to be finished before NP, so we can build NE to 1 turn in <the NP city>, then build it all over the place to ultimatly build NP followed by NE one turn later and Cash-a-mundo $$$ the other builds at 1:2.25 conversion.

Again, lots of hammers would have to be spent to get any profit. Lots of hammers we might need for other things.

The added 'problem' is that we instead of having a steady influx of 20gpt, we will get 0 for a lot of turns and then get 1000 gold as a lumb sum... so we have to really consider the usefullness....

One more management challenge.

We will see about the Space Elevator, it requires an additional tech that is not in the list... plus it comes pretty late... it MAY save a turn but we can check this (much) later

This is true, Space Elevator is more useful if you are hammer-limited and not beaker-limited. Or have one really massively strong city in the allowed region to build it.

The gorge dam, we can build it in JH, why build it anywhere else? We will probably only build a coal plant in JH and MAYBE Sleeps, all other cities will get power for The Gorge.

Do not know why I did not include JH in river-cities for this.

Researching Astronomy
With the build queue in JH (still our foremost city) not beeing able to start Observatory inside of 4 turns, perhaps we can delay Astronomy 1 turn?
Run 1 turn 0% now (not delaying anything in JH really), research Astro in 3 turns allow for 1 more turn on Colossus build.

It is probably not a good idea to delay building Obs/Lab everywhere, but I am doubting we want to build them now even... Rather than just outright gold, dropping the slider 10% costs us 35 beakers in JH + 6 beakers per other city where Obs adds only 10 beakers.
Theoreticaly assuming we can keep a high slider building +% research buildings seems like a good idea... but will we keep a high (enough) slider without the build gold?
Gunpowder > rifling 1201 + 2403 = 3604 beakers, that is ~7 turns delaying this 5 turns to build Obs/Lab in JH doesnt seem like a good plan to me??

I think we should just keep researching full speed. The extra TR income will help immediately, and one turn delay is just (as per your statement above) 500 beakers lost.

Colossus
With 2 more turns on "Colossus gold" available (+ the 1 turn in SdL) we want out most productive city to sink hammers into it where possible.
IT can produce 16 where CiB only has 8, we should be building it in IT and reverse the IT specialists plan. Work as much hammers as possible NOW, work more specialists later to get the GP inside 10 turns. GPP now or on turn 9 shouldnt matter right? Getting more hammers to Colossus NOW does!
So IMHO:
Run all scientists in IT this turn
Minimize the scientists 2 turns building Colossus
Run all scientists post colossus build

Then again it is a couple of gold... does it matter THAT much? Maybe not...

Useful idea, though. Every bit helps.

I am unsure about the hammers spent on the Colossus the last turn (the turn Astro is completed). When I did my WorldBuilder test, it seemed like only the accumulated hammers got turned into gold later -- the last turn of hammers was just lost completely. Can someone verify this? (I will if I have time, but I may not.)

Settling
If we run both settlers ... both settle on turn 5, if we settle Two Rivers ASAP that is 2 turns and 8 for Food heaven, so it is +3 and -3. I would like to see Food heaven settled ASAP just in case there is a Joao settler lurking in the fog.
Also for Caste Food heaven is just the better city, lets not delay settling that.
Both Cities though should start a granary not a lighthouse although at two rivers it is a toss up... I would really farm the FP to jump start its food, not watermill it.

Can anyone do a sim or something what is better for growing TR?

I do not see TR as a specialist town, so more hammers sooner (watermill and iron) seems more valuable than farming the FP. Giving up 2 hammers and 2 commerce for 1 food is a heavy loss.

My paths for the settlers give FH as T5 and TR on T6, or TR on T1 and FH on T6. So 1 turn delay in FH for 5 turns in TR, not +3 and -3. I am not worried about a Joao settler -- brown dot is not settled, and we will be fogbusting FH before the settler would arrive anyway.

3) 1 turn at SdL and 2 turns at CiB, 3 turns to Astro, right?

Can someone confirm what happens to the hammers from the turn Astro is discovered? I am thinking they are lost, but am probably wrong. Still, would hate to lose one turn of hammers.

4) Makes sense I guess, just so used to building settlers after growing

5) I know, I noted that earlier (and Chris noted me noting it)
One tile thats outside our cutlure needs to go 1 north, unless we can time settling GrapeVille and the farm project.... But I doubt that. Then again farming the rice first could be an option. Settler takes 6 turns to build, farm, road rice... could work
Fearless is needed (badly) at Bear town, it is IMHO NOT available to go anywhere / do anything but add a preserve to that current barb riverside tile, I would sacrifice a 3xp C1 Mace to remove them ASAP (bomb with Zeps, 3xp mace, clean up with 6 and 7 xps). So we can add that preserve and not be worried about those barbs anymore...

While that preserve would be nice to have, prying those barbs out could be expensive. If the sacrificial mace does not do much damage...we could lose 2 maces. Pretty steep price.

10 cities - 10 workers, true, but...
CiB doenst need many more turns (1 maybe 2 windmills)
LM doesnt need many more turns (maybe something like 4 turns for the 2 cottages?)
SdL doesnt nmmt (1 windmill left... but we may want to run scientists here)
Sleeps doesnt nmmt (beyond the farming project)

The farm project is a LOT of worker turns! And Sleeps will need several farms to really pay off -- getting one food added to the wheat tile is not worth that many workers turns.

In effect 6 cities 10 workers, but maybe an extra worker would be nice... Bear town IMHO would then be the place to build it
Settler > Granary (1 turn) > Worker > Granary

Then again FH doesnt nmmt, only needs a pasture and maybe 2 windmills, which would make it 5 and 10, should be enough shouldnt it?

I think we can get by with our current worker force. It will be tight, but building more is probably not the right choice right now. Hopefully Hammi has lots of workers and his lands are already mostly improved.

6) We need actually 2 workboats for FH AND one for the whales! (I forgot about them damn whales )

You are right -- 2 WBs for FH. I will update the plan.

7) Scientist plan at IT
5 for 6 turns 180 gpp
4 for 1 turn 24 gpp
3 for 2 turns 36 gpp = 240 needed (not 3 for 3 turns as per your post Hap)

If we turn that around
3 for 2
4 for 1
5 for 6
We get 11 + 11 + 7 hammers on the first 3 turns enough to finish the Courthouse, which currently needs 23 hammers and immediately start the Obs instead of leaving the Courthouse unfinished in the queue.

Excellent idea - will do.

8) SdL
At 18 hammers/turn (15 + 25% from the forge) ... it needs 24 and 21 hammers on the Lighthouse and Courthouse, lets finish them both before starting an Obs there. Only delays the Obs 1 turn (7 beakers), vs 6 turns we would delay the courthouse at 3.5gpt * 6 = 21 gold at 1:2 = 42 beakers.

Good point, will finish both before obs.

9) CiB
30 / 80 on the courthouse when we get Astro. 5 turns to finish the courthouse
10 turns to build the obs. Delay courthouse 10 turns for 2gpt = 20 gold = 40 beakers
Delay Obs for 5 turns @ 8 beakers = 40 beakers, this is a toss up... I would probably finish the courthouse before starting the Obs.

Sounds good. Roughly breakeven, but some more EP never hurts.

10) LM
To generate a GP in 5 turns it can run 2 turns 7 specialists (total) @ 44gpp leaving 201 - 88 = 113
Then return one specialist to work for 2 (rounded) hammers @ 38gpp for 3 turns = 114GPP
Courthouse now has 37 hammers, + 8 + 8 + 10 = 63 / 80
The courthouse is done in 2 turns, so we delay the Observatory for 2 turns cost 20 beakers
To delay the courthouse 10 turns at 2gpt = 20 gold = 40 beakers, finish the courthouse first!

Obs or Market?
Market = 5gpt = 10 beakers vs 10 beakers with the Obs doesnt make much difference at the same hammer cost, but definatly Market before the Lab...Less hammer cost, same gain.

More good points, will add to plan.

Research as I see it...
Astro (3)
Rifling (7)
Nationalism (6) (enable gold building into Taj) <share paper + education around when nearly finished>
Lib (3) (radio, enable Gold building into Eifel and build Christo)
Democracy (13) (revolt to Rep/FR when Christo done)

I assume Rifling includes Gunpowder. And we need Philo in there somewhere before Nationalism, and Consititution before Democracy. Usual stuff. Should all be after my turnset, anyway.

Build in JH:
Airport (4) > Obs (2) > Lab (3) > Zeppelin (1 turn) > Missionary/gold (1) > Finish Zeppelin (1) > (good overflow to) Para's (atleast 6 in a row, for the next 10 turns)

Build in Sleeps:
Airport 167 - 23 = 144 / 20 = 1 turn + 7 turns + 4 hammers
Work the Tundra hill instead of the Wine this turn for
25 + 7 turns * 20 + 2 hammers => find these 2 hammers someplace (work a plains preserve 2 turns intead of the wine) to build the Airport in 8 turns.
2 turns to build a missionary with good overflow to a Paratrooper (atleast 3 in a row over 15 turns, probably 1 or 2 more though).

More good ideas, will be added to the plan.

11) Trade/gold
We can probably ask our friend-o-friend-o-big-pall-of-ours Hammi for his 40g, else sell our map for his + 40g? Gift/Sell him MC, so he can build Forges instead of units and possibly build Colossus instead of units??
Edit: And sell Hammi our Wine for 1 gpt? We get 2 new Wine soon anyway and we dont need the happy at the moment.
Do we want to 'sell' HC Civil Service for his 110 gold?? Or sell our world map for his world map + 110 gold?

Edit2:
Ask our big hatter for his Wheat so we can sell it to Hammi for 1 gpt

I will hold off on new resource deals until we have both Astro and Currency -- we may be able to get more cash from overseas. But I will grab as much as I can. Should I emphasize total cash, or go for a mix of most resources traded for diplo and cash?

 

[haphazard1]

OK, here is v1.1 of the turnset plan, updated as per discussion. Still plenty of time for more suggestions and ideas!

Diplomacy

Continue to exclude WK from all deals, unless he becomes no longer the worst enemy of HC.

Trade for techs if we can get them, especially Currency, Philo, or Aesthetics. HBR...who cares?

Refuse to adopt any religion. Otherwise agree to requests if possible (small amount of gold, a tech)?

Resource Deals

Will wait until have Astro and Currency, then cancel existing giveaway deals and reshuffle all available resources for max resource diplo points and available cash. Where possible, trade resource for resource and then sell/trade/gift the second resource.

Civics

OR is costing us 6 or even 7 gpt, compared to paganism. Will build some missionaries if possible, to get some value for it.

Espionage

We can now see HC's research, so dial him back to weight 1 but keep an eye on it - increase if necessary to keep research visible.

We are in danger of no longer being able to see demos for Hammi and Joao. Do we care? If yes, put weight 1 on each, and a final weight 1 on WK to eventually see his demos and research. If not, put all remaining wieght wherever -- who might we want to target?

Great People

LM - Will pull two pop off the forest preserves and run as scientists for 5 turns, getting our next GP. Then assign those two pop back to the preserves and run "sustainable" specialists with very slow growth.

IT will be managed for max scientist GPP, but as per Kale's plan to get 2 turns of heavy hammers into the Colossus, then back to max GPP configuration.

Plan is for GP from LM on T5, second GP from IT on T10, then third GP from LM around T19.

Question: should we run an engineer in IT, or pure scientists? Should we run the engineer we are currently running in LM, or pure scientists? While a GE would be useful, more beakers and higher %-age GS is probably more valuable.

Cities and Builds

JH - Builds airport (4 turns, but with 31 overflow), then obs (2 turns, 27 overflow), lab (3 turns, 1 overflow) - 9 turns total, getting an extra TR and the +50% beakers up. Will grow at 9 turns as well, probably running a scientist at that point.

LM - Currently building a courthouse. With max scientists, will still be 19 hammers (3 turns) short when Astro completes. Continue the courthouse and then probably a market.

Sleeps - Airport for future military purposes. Will use the windmill tile to try to get it done in 8 turns; if so, build a missionary afterwards.

CiB - Currently building a courthouse, will continue until finished. Then start obs.

Will grow to use all seafood tiles in 3 turns, and then again about 6 turns later. We will want another windmill up by that time (see worker actions below).

SdL - Puts 1 more turn into Colossus, leaving it 2 hammers from done. Then switch to courthouse (2 turns) and lighthouse (2 turns). Then start observatory, followed by lab (into next turnset).

IT - Runs scientists as described above (or do we want one engineer?), putting hammers into Colossus for two turns. Then finish courthouse, and start obs.

Bear Town - Switch immediately to settler (6 turns). Once done, finish granary (4 turns), then build 3 workboats: 2 for FH and one for IT's whales (we will have Astro, so it can get there). Work the watermill once it is ready (4 turns from now).

New settlers:

SdL guy (can still move this turn) goes to Two Rivers site and settles next turn. Other settler goes to Food Heaven, settles turn 7. Bear Town settler goes to Grapeville, settles turn 8.

If SdL guy goes to Food Heaven and other settler to TR, they settle T5 and T6. So for one turn delay at Food Heaven we can settler TR 5 turns early. Our costs are definitely going to jump with three new cities so close together, but we need to get these sites growing and developing.

Two Rivers - work flood plain, build granary and then lighthouse (for 3 food from lake tiles). Work iron once improved (see worker actions below).

Food Heaven - start granary, then lighthouse (next turnset). Run merchants if improved tiles not available.

Grapeville - start granary.

Worker Actions

The farming project will be continued, but we need workers down south to road and build improvements at the new cities. So that will be my focus.

- Emmett Brown (SW of BT) finishes farm, then moves to farm and road rice for Grapeville. Then builds a winery to give BT another strong tile (equal to a grass forest preserve on a river). We will want the extra wine for trade.

- Fearless (east of BT) finishes watermill, builds road, then moves (with escorts as necessary) to preserve another forest for BT.

- DeLorean roads his current tile (T1,2) then joins the road project towards TR with Einstein and Jules Verne.

- Einstein moves NE and roads the wine (T1), then moves SW and assists DeLorean and Jules Verne in roading towards TR and improving the iron.

- Jules Verne moves SE,NE and roads the wine (T1). Then moves SW and assists DeLorean and Einstein in roading towards TR and improving iron.

- namliaM moves NW and roads, then SW and roads wheat. Then moves back east for the farming project and improving tiles for Grapeville once founded.

- Arcadic (by LM and JH) starts pre-watermilling SE of JH. Does NOT complete any of them yet. Target tiles are S, SE, and 2S1E or JH.

- Obama (near CiB) stops the preserve (not needed that urgently), moves to CiB (T1), then starts windmill on roaded ice hill. Will be needed by the time he finishes it.

- Thorrez (near TR) moves SE and builds watermill (city will be founded next turn). Once completed, help with iron and team roading towards Food Heaven.

- Biff (near IT) completes camp and road, then moves NE and builds camp. Then W and build camp.

Military

Will attempt to dislodge barbs from forest N of city, using a sacrificial 3xp mace to soften the defenders. Attempt to get more XP for our higher XP units to get a 10 XP unit and unlock the HE.

If more barbs land, try to kill them in the open.

In the south, move our brown dot xbow back north, and send Friar Tuck towards Food Heaven to fogbust there so our settler can move in. We will need a unit for TR - maybe the brown dot xbow once Food Heaven is founded? Friar Tuck will garrison FH, and our fogbusting phalanx on the hill can garrison Grapeville once it is founded.

Zep overseas continues some exploration, otherwise keep zeps available for barb smashing duty.


Should be a quiet turnset, overall, building obs/labs, founding cities, lots of worker micro.

I will aim to play Tuesday night, assuming there are no critical issues still unresolved.

 

[KaleLambiek]

Probably we end up researching it ourselves.

I still hope Currency will show up!

And as your later calculation show, Pacifism does not help us greatly, at least right now. Maybe with several Confu multi-specialist cities it would, but FH is not settled and developed yet.

Yes outdated post, I think now that we shouldnt addopt confu and we should just spread it to Joao's and our own cities to get some cash boost ... other than that I dont see us going back to confu/OR

A lot will depend on what the overseas AIs have available, but I will go for Currency (trade or self-tech) right after Astro, and then deal. We should be able to start accumulating resource diplo and still get some useful cash.

I would regardless still pickup the 1gpt from Hammi, that is atleast 10gold... not much... but still its 10 gold towards our goal, not soon-to-be-dead Hammi's goal(s)

Where should these missionaries be built?

We can atleast build 2 missionaries in JH/Sleeps before we spam Para's
Probably one from SdL too?

Actually I think I overstated the loss of 100 gold. We do need to run 0% for one turn to accumulate 100 gold, but
1) We only need to run 40% to get out of deficit spending (-69gpt) and get +31gpt
This means we still generate 185 beakers so the loss is "only" 315 beakers.
2) We may have other means (trade/tech sell) to get gold to support our slider
3) Conquest cash
4) 25% from 40 = 10 not 8
5) 40 commerce is a relatively small number that should be surpased quite easily for more gain from the Obs.

Shaka? WK? Keep some on Joao? Thoughts on this are still pretty scattered.

Basicaly all AI, wouldnt it be nice to see who is currently teching Currency??

When can you see build queue's ?? City Visibility or Investigate city?? I may be nice to be able to see what the wonderspammer (HC) is building in his cities and how many turns he has left.

What to do if we get another prophet? Settle in LM? Hold onto as golden age fodder? If we get a GE, presumably we save it for Cristo or SoL. GS goes right to JH and settles.

GP, save for now I think... Possible Islamic shrine? Or GA...

If we want to keep lots of scientists running in LM, we can not really steal the food.

But the one turn of +4 food in JH makes it grow faster to ensure the Lab a turn faster (if we dont get a GS) which is worth quite a bit...

Do we even want to settle Brown? If we do, I agree that sending this guy south immediately is the way to do it. But that means we need another settler from somewhere, even more worker turns down south, further drain on our economy.... I am thinking we skip brown dot, and maybe take it from Joao later if we decide we want it.

All settlers will be fully fog-busted, absolutely!

I think I agree, lets forget about brown for now, 3 new undeveloped cities draining our cash is going to be bad enough.

We can build a granary, but the lighthouse will turn the lake tiles into 3 food without needing worker turns or WBs. Without slavery, it will take quite a while to build anything here. We need worker turns to get a couple windmills up -- some hammers are necessary to build anything. Of course we can just run specialists, since we are in caste. Merchants, since we will have no +beaker buildings? The raw gold will be worth more than raw beakers 1:1.

Exactly my point, we are in Caste lets use it to the max!
Pig + Fish is +8 food already, lighthouse just makes that +9 (+12 if working 3 lake tiles)
Granary booms it up to 16 food (or 8 if we are already running 2 specialists). Lighthouse certainly is up there in priorities but if we dont have citizens to work the Lake tiles (for 1 food / 2 commerce) then whats the point of it? I think a granary will be stronger?? Though a closer calculation of turns to build etc vs specialists running etc.. may prove me wrong... Dont have time for that right now..

Then again if we are going to max out specialists in FH, we wont be growing (fast) so maybe a Lighthouse to feed the (extra) specialist(s)s is the way to go.

All suggestions welcome! I do not see the farm project as hugely urgent, until Bio is available to really make those farms pay off. More food in Sleeps is good, yes, but getting improved tiles available at Bear Town and the new cities is more important than growing Sleeps a couple sizes.

Not all farms around Sleeps are important IMHO, but getting the 3 farms to Irrigate its wheat is. An automatic +1 food, this means it can work an extra Plains preserve + the 2 farms = +5 hammers +4 commerce, the commerce I can care less about but 5 hammers is the difference between a para every 5 vs 4 turns.

Maybe even replace the Windmill by a mine at some point?? Its commerce has been helpfull but Sleeps target is hammers = mine not Mill.

OK, the scientist beaker bit makes sense -- I was wondering how our calcs got so different!

This is why we must double check eachother... anything anyone does is flawed... with more people looking the more chance we catch those flaws and can get a good game down.

And the rice for Grapeville, quickly after the wine. Maybe even before the wine.

See how things work out, we have 7 turns to settling...
Hooking up wine with 1 worker takes 7 turns, farm and road the rice 6 turns on that
So 2 workers should be able to do both JIT in that order.

Not sure I agree on retreating the trireme -- that means losing the seafood.

Not for 100%, it is likely only 1 galley will come to pillage, bomb with Zepp and attack with Trireme. Perhaps we can get the Trireme to 10 xp

A second galley attack on a trireme is even without promotions a dead Trireme for 90% of the cases (in my experience). Also some of these Galleys have Flanking giving them a chance to retreat which may result in a dead trireme without a kill.

Also swapping 1:1 with the barbs is NO GOOD and maybe we want some landings too

The C3 Axemen probably are on defensive duty, so are the C2/CG2 LBs... That may only leave the sword which probably doesnt go out alone anyway...

I will try to get maximum value from the workers, but roads on only the 2-move spaces do not actually help if there is not a road on the adjacent tile.

yes... but 2 roads on 2 consequetive 2 move tiles does
And offcourse one on the flat land before it.... But that road is build by a trailing worker not the worker running up the hill/into the forest.

I think we want the watermill, and maybe farm it over later. Without slavery, our new cities need some hammers right away to get initial improvements builts. TR will have the iron, though; maybe farm FP and mine iron for decent total food + hammers? I hate giving up 2 hammers and 2 commerce for 1 food, though. [/quyote]
The one food serves to feed a plains hill windmill. For +3 hammers +4 commerce.
So we give up 2 hammers 2 commerce for 3 hammers 4 commerce, how is that not a win?
Yes the plains hill gomes into play a little later, but "sooner" than if we have the Watermill.

Again a sim of this city may prove me wrong.... but early food is ussually very important in any size 1 city.

LM definitely no, CiB maybe maybe not. With two more windmills it will have reasonable hammers.

Lab gives +50% on SS parts. Assume minor cities will have a forge, and be building a part which has a doubler resources. So it will be +175% with lab rather than +125% without, or 2/11 saved. With lab costing 167 hammers, the city would need to build 752 hammers worth of SS parts to pay off pure hammers. Given the forge and resource bonus, that is about 1800 hammers (list value) SS parts, or 2.25 "small" parts (casings, thrusters, etc.).

Yes, but have you (carefully) considered us having other (big) production cities? I.e. Babylon, Sleeps, Dur-Kuri.... I dont think we want to consider -at this point- building space parts anywhere... Beakers is what it is all about (at the moment)

ANY city CAN build 10 space parts given enough time... but do we want to wait that long?

Early Apollo can give time for weaker cities to build minor parts, lightening the load on our primary hammer cities. There are lots of parts needed...we can not turn them all out in just a few key cities. The queues will just get too deep.

The trick is to try and aim for the last 10 parts to finish on the same turn... and I am always messing this up in a space game so we need to plan this carefully.

Hermitage is tricky.

Again, lots of hammers would have to be spent to get any profit. Lots of hammers we might need for other things.

I agree on Hermitage, as its use for this game is null and void.

HE we MAY want to build anyway in one city to pump out some i.e. Tanks to go get us some conquest cash ... Any hammers at that point we have invested into HE is $$$... if we do want to go get conquest cash with tanks or Modern Armor (may be to late) then having the HE is important and having invested hammers into it for $$$ would be advisable.

I am unsure about the hammers spent on the Colossus the last turn (the turn Astro is completed). When I did my WorldBuilder test, it seemed like only the accumulated hammers got turned into gold later -- the last turn of hammers was just lost completely. Can someone verify this? (I will if I have time, but I may not.)

I cannot right now, but those hammers should either
1) Be applied to colossus
thus turn into gold
2) Be "overflow" to the next project.

I do not see TR as a specialist town, so more hammers sooner (watermill and iron) seems more valuable than farming the FP.

Wont go into the hammer argument as I did that before in this post.... But definatly I agree TR is not a Specialist town, FH is though!

While that preserve would be nice to have, prying those barbs out could be expensive. If the sacrificial mace does not do much damage...we could lose 2 maces. Pretty steep price.

Yes could be costly, but having those barbs there is IMHO a HUGE pain!

Otherwize we simply have to find a way to get them to move, but how? The open watermill for them to pillage doesnt seem intresting enough??
Maybe if we put a worker undefended on that tile, would that help??

Then again a worker is quite usefull, but less expensive than a mace. Ultimatly though when we have Para's we dont care about Mace...
Perhaps we should just wait a few turns and use our first Para to dislodge those barbs??!!!

The farm project is a LOT of worker turns! And Sleeps will need several farms to really pay off -- getting one food added to the wheat tile is not worth that many workers turns.

Yes a lot of worker turns, but it also gives 2 extra farms to Sleeps and 5 hammers is extreemly usefull IMHO.
We have 1 city - 1 worker, 4 cities dont need workers (much).
So we have 4 free workers, 2 of these go farm
1 to TR
1 to Bear town

This gives us 2 worker at TR, 2 at BT, 1 at FH (for the pig pasture and possibly some windmill(s) at a lower priority as it will be running high # of specialists)
The farm project takes care of the Wine (for BT) 3 farms for GV (rice + 2 others) and 2 farms for Sleeps... Those farms at GV (rice + 2 others) are going to be needed anyway.
The "one worker" appointed to GV will pasture the cows and Windmill the hill for 5 workable improved tiles. What would seem to be the bottleneck?

I assume Rifling includes Gunpowder. And we need Philo in there somewhere before Nationalism, and Consititution before Democracy. Usual stuff. Should all be after my turnset, anyway.

Yes techs include (or should include) their pre-requisites.

I will hold off on new resource deals until we have both Astro and Currency -- we may be able to get more cash from overseas. But I will grab as much as I can. Should I emphasize total cash, or go for a mix of most resources traded for diplo and cash?

Getting the (free) wheat from Joao and selling it to Hammi, what could be bad about that??

Cash! CASH CASH!
We need to fund our research!

 

[KaleLambiek]

OK, here is v1.1 of the turnset plan, updated as per discussion. Still plenty of time for more suggestions and ideas!

Will have to look at this later, gotza run

 

[ChrisFromLux]

Free Religion
10% extra research, seems great, but what does it actually come down to??

[snipped good calculations]

It would seem to me like unless we can get considerably more GPs / GPP from other cities running Pacifism compared to Free Religion is going to be USELESS for beakers... Free Religion seems to be the way to go. If FR > Pacifism, we dont want to addopt Confu now.

Add to this that:
- not needing to adopt a religion for Pacifism = 1 turn less in anarchy and no religious differences with our friends
- more happiness from religions (not more than 1 or 2, though)

Getting GPs from LM/IT << GPs = GSs! Just making sure the RNG understands!

Yeah, Hap, don't repeat my mistake

As well as moving away the Triremes? Also, 1 Trireme on the Clams is the same as no trireme. If it gets attacked by 2 galleys its dead... Make sure to retreat that atleast 1 tile or even all the way to the city (or more south), leaving it on the clams is a guarantee for a dead Trireme.

We cannot move away our Trireme! There's 1 Barb-Galley with NavII-promotion, allowing it to sail 4 tiles/turn ... that means it can pillage the nets out of Atlantis!

And I'm not sure all Galleys will attack ... why did only 1 Galley attack the turn both Triremes and the Workboat moved out to the Clams?

Probably, the other ships have other orders (transport-duties i.e.)

 

[ChrisFromLux]

Does anyone know what lategame techs get bulbed by a GS?

Starting from the Astronomy-column, the only techs a GS cannot bulb are:
- Steel
- Assembly Line
- Railroad
- Fascism
- Industrialism


Some while ago, I made a bulbing-tech-tree for BtS, giving you the bulb-order of every tech by every GPersoun. Allows you to easily check which techs can be bulbed in the area you currently are in; assuming you know which techs you ignored.

It's a 'copy' of the Vanilla-tech-tree namliaM has in his signature, and the order-numbers are taken from an article in the War Academy. No credit for me, here


If you are interested, here's the link

 

[ChrisFromLux]

OK, here is v1.1 of the turnset plan, updated as per discussion. Still plenty of time for more suggestions and ideas!

All looks good, but for your open questions: did you see my comments on your first version (city-settling, espionage, ...)? There was no reply at all

Refuse to adopt any religion. Otherwise agree to requests if possible (small amount of gold, a tech)?

Yes, refuse religions, and gift every tech they ask for.

We will gift away many techs, anyway; only critical point is that we must make sure we're the first to Liberalism (and Alpha Centauri, ideally )!

Will attempt to dislodge barbs from forest N of city, using a sacrificial 3xp mace to soften the defenders. Attempt to get more XP for our higher XP units to get a 10 XP unit and unlock the HE.

I would not sacrifice a unit into the forest. Wait for them to attack or to come out playing, or wait for the first Paratroopers. That way, they would even get some extra XP.

But those Barbs in the forest are hurting us that much ... there are enough tiles to improve for the next 12-14 turns (~= 1st Paratrooper)

 

[ChrisFromLux]

I still hope Currency will show up!

I guess we all do

When can you see build queue's ?? City Visibility or Investigate city?? I may be nice to be able to see what the wonderspammer (HC) is building in his cities and how many turns he has left.

I don't know ... but I think I have a game going where I can check this ...

GP, save for now I think... Possible Islamic shrine? Or GA...

Agree with saving him for a Golden Age, or settling him im Lake Mastiff again.

But building an Islamic Shrine????? How do you want to take profit of that? Still run OR later (instead of Pacifism or FR), to be able to build Missionaries and spread Islam?

I think I agree, lets forget about brown for now, 3 new undeveloped cities draining our cash is going to be bad enough.

 

[Sleepless]

Just adding in another couple of thoughts. Definitely FR when available and no adopting religion if we want to trade with HC which we do.

Resource deals. Wait until Astro and if we can get the deals with HC to help speed up towards the friendly status. If we trade with Ham for 1g now we are stuck for ten turns before we cancel it.

CiB. With Nat Park it will have 8 or 9 specs. So running scientists and engineers it is advisable to get both obs/lab here and it is a likely place for building 1 or 2 parts.

Looking at the map the only likely places for the IW are, JH and Babylon, at the end with JH running Beau the only heavy hammer site would be Babylon and if we put the Nat Park here we lose the coal bonus (I do wish it was on a river though).

Great People. I would save an engineer for the CR so please keep running one in LM. The ability for a lot earlier civic changes would be a great help. Prophet I would settle in LM if we are going to put Wall Street here. GS obviously settle in JH.

on the turnset plan haphazard1.

 

[KaleLambiek]

Resource deals. Wait until Astro and if we can get the deals with HC to help speed up towards the friendly status. If we trade with Ham for 1g now we are stuck for ten turns before we cancel it.

Yes we are stuck, BUT it is a free Wheat we are so kindly given by our big friend Joao.... what is to lose but the 3 gpt we would otherwize miss out on?

OR is costing us 6 or even 7 gpt, compared to paganism.

Actually it is 'only' 5gpt, plus maybe a little inflation? Still it is 5gpt...

Resource Deals

Why not take the free Wheat from Joao (hopefully free) then sell it for 1gpt to Hammi?? Can only win us GPT I think??

Not really resource, but pick up HC's cash ?!

Both this turn before moving on.

Espionage

When can we see city builds? Is it worth keeping high points towards the wonder spammer (HC) to see his city builds?

I could care less about Demo's of anyone at this time, demo's are useless (to me) or I dont know how to use them. Plus we will be so to the extreme above the AI (I think) that they wouldnt matter (much) anyway.
If anything I would focus on the off-continent civs, for sure IMHO Hammi is dead, Joao might be soon to follow.

Great People

I would always run a Engineer in all -expected to generate a GP- cities. A GE to -posssibly- get Mining Inc or fast build a -non resource- wonder.
Although JH should be able to build most wonders we really want fast enough (SoL Eifel TGD), broadway and RnR may be a bit more of a pain to build as well as Christo.

Cities and Builds
Sleeps

Sleeps will be a few hammers short on the Airport to finish 'on mark' unless you swap the Wine this turn to the hill + not work the wine one or 2 turns favouring a Preserve instead.
Then again, we can overflow the hammers from Airport to Missionary and finish it in 1 turn after the Airport if we dont do the MM.

Also remember to change the build in Sleeps!

Cities and Builds
SdL

After 1 more turn colossus, Courthouse > Lighthouse or Lighthouse > Courthouse?
Lighthouse gives 4 food extra, this would enable more tiles sooner for more commerce... or specialists
Courthouse gives 3 gpt saved, a total of 6 beakers/turn = 12 beakers. Food keeps us +1 pop for the rest of the game atleast 1 turn earlier. That is 3 beakers extra for each pop point it grows (working coast), or 6 working a windmill or +6gpp +4.5 beakers per specialist.
I think Lighthouse > Courthouse is the (slightly) supperior option.

Cities and Builds
Bear town

The workboat for food from the fish in FH is Prio #1, we have to work out what is the turns required for the fish to be netted the same turn the borders of FH expand and plan the workboat build accoordingly. Unless this leaves the Granary at 1 turn from finished I think that it would be best to prioritize the fish workboat.
Settle turn 8 + 3 turns? to expand the border.
3 turns? to move BT > FH for the workboat, leaves us 8 turns to build the first workboat.

Worker Actions
- Emmett Brown (SW of BT) finishes farm, then moves to farm and road rice for Grapeville. Then builds a winery to give BT another strong tile (equal to a grass forest preserve on a river). We will want the extra wine for trade.
- Einstein moves NE and roads the wine (T1), then moves SW and assists DeLorean and Jules Verne in roading towards TR and improving the iron.

If these 2 join forces on the wine then Rice we can have the Winery + road + Rice farmed JIT before settling Grapeville.
If the Winery is a strong tile it is worth improving it ASAP vs having a rice farm lay baren!

- Fearless (east of BT) finishes watermill, builds road, then moves (with escorts as necessary) to preserve another forest for BT.

Do we need the happy in BT? I am not sure... Perhaps we cottage instead?
Or do we need/want the hammers for our "upcomming" GA so all the tiles get +hammers AND +commerce??

- namliaM moves NW and roads, then SW and roads wheat. Then moves back east for the farming project and improving tiles for Grapeville once founded.

How important is hooking up the Wheat for trade? Hard to guestimate... but hooking it up is important.
Try this though:
Move NW, road 1 turn
Move SW, road wheat
Move NE, road 1 turn (finish road)
Puts the worker closer to other tiles that need to be improved to ensure it can work those tiles immediatly (i.e. farm the tile 3 SE of Sleeps).

- Arcadic (by LM and JH) starts pre-watermilling SE of JH. Does NOT complete any of them yet. Target tiles are S, SE, and 2S1E or JH.

I was thinking...
If we start by pre-watermilling the tile SE of JH (DO NOT FINISH IT!) then move to the tile S of JH we can finish that watermill (S of JH) in 14 turns from now. Then the watermill SE of JH and the (complete) watermill S-SE of JH.
Get the 2 chops on turn 14 and 16 from now => In the middle of our Para-building-period/session.

- Thorrez (near TR) moves SE and builds watermill (city will be founded next turn). Once completed, help with iron and team roading towards Food Heaven.

I done some thinking and writing down turns, I think indeed the watermill gets the Granary and Ligthouse (in that order) up faster giving more food. We need a (grass) farm around there someplace though!
Why road towards FH though? Two rivers needs Windmills and such too, why not start that?? Roads are meaningless to us! They should only be build for movement which the other workers can do fast enough as they come south (IMHO)

Military

Will attempt to dislodge barbs from forest N of city

I now believe it pointless -Agree with Chris and others as well I think- and probably better to wait ~12 turns to the first paratrooper. This will cost us some commerce, not much but some... But save hammers and up some XP for a Paratrooper (assuming he doesnt die on us at 90% or so odds!!)

General question:
Do we want to put up a second city on that Island (Greenland) anytime soon-ish???
If we settle it 1 SW of the sheep it can work the Whale (not a great tile but adds a hammer) but also add 3 cottages and 9 coastal tiles. It can also work up to 3 cottages for its stronger brother (IT) while it runs specialists over cottages to generate some GPs and/or build some infra of the hammer tiles.
Even without the cottage empowering civics that is 12 + 18 = 30 commerce, not counting the Whale or traderoutes. Its immediate cost should be around 10-15 gpt (possibly up to 20gpt?), theoreticaly it should pay for itself and then some... but the current cost may be somewhat prohibative??
It does also ensure we have 2 off-continent domestic traderoutes for +1gpt? traderoutes once we hit Coorporation? and/or Out-expand/out-conquer our friendly AIs...

If we want we can certainly have Bear town build us another settler??!! after offcourse the workboat in proper timing for FH!