SGOTM 14 - Kakumeika

OK I cleaned up my city planning spreadsheet and its manual. Please do refer to the manual - I'm happy to help but I really dislike repeating myself :) It requires OpenOffice, which is a free open-source spreadsheet program available for all platforms. I have no ability to convert the spreadsheet to Excel format - various back-end things work differently, and conversion fails. Recent versions of Excel can open the spreadsheet, but the formulae are non-functional.

Unfortunately I'm away for the next few days, so happy planning while I'm gone!
 
Don't get me wrong, slavery can be great, but it's only great when whipping smallish cities with granaries that were not otherwise working highly productive tiles.

Hehe, it is true that slavery isn't amazing before granaries, but I still feel it has some uses.

To grow from 1 to 2 Population takes 22:food:
To grow from 2 to 3 Population takes 24:food:
To grow from 3 to 4 Population takes 26:food:
To grow from 4 to 5 Population takes 28:food:


1) Quick barb defense. "OMG barbarian walked out of the one fogged tile and is headed for my corn" is a cry heard in many Civ 4 games. Slavery is a great counter. It is less dramatic on normal where a unit can be built in 2 or 3 turns, but it still works.

In our game, with good fogbusting on our peninsula and normal speed, barbs should not be a problem.
So point to Mabraham against slavery.


2) Whip a monument. If the first thing you build is a warrior or monument, whipping that monument when you grow to size 2 turns 22:food: into 30:hammers: instantly. It also lets you grow to size 2 again on an improved food tile while the worker is busy improving the 2nd tile. You get the monument and border pop sooner rather than later.


3)A new city can quickly create a military unit and a worker if it has a good food tile.

Start the city building a unit while growing to size 2, then switch to a worker at size 2. Use the first worker to improve the food and then chop a forest. When the +20 hammers goes into the city, whip the worker complete using 1 population. The #2 city can have another worker and unit out very fast using this method, and it quickly grow back to size 2.


4)Build granaries the turn after researching them :)


5)Whipping at 4 population with a full food bin can also be useful. A 2 pop whip at 27/28 food will reduce the city to size 2 and change the food bin to 27/24 food. The next turn you are size 3 and well on your way to size 4 already thanks to the food overflow. This is mainly useful if the workers are not improving tiles fast enough.


The main thing is, you can have stuff now rather than later. Sometimes such a thing cannot have a hard value assigned to it. How do you quantify an axeman army taking an enemy's capital the turn before they get longbows thanks to slavery?




A good question to ponder is how much natural production a city can have to outshine slavery both before and after granaries. Is it +12:hammers: per turn? +16:hammers:?

On normal speed, I'd say that any city with production of 20:hammers: or greater should not be whipped(much :devil:). If you naturally produce a swordsman every other turn, I do not see how whipping can speed that up any. Even with a granary, whipping every 3rd turn to produce 2 military units only speeds up things a tiny bit, and it would not regrow fast.

If you whip every 10 turns, you get an average hammer amount like this:
1pop whip - 3:hammers:/turn
2pop whip - 6:hammers:/turn
3pop whip - 9:hammers:/turn

If you whip every other turn, you get an average hammer amount like this:
1pop whip - 15:hammers:/turn
2pop whip - 30:hammers:/turn
3pop whip - 45:hammers:/turn

Whipping hard is mainly for getting out that shiny new soldier you just teched in huge numbers fast. If you frequently whip settlers and workers, you will not have the economy to support the extra new cities on emperor, and the economy will crash. Then you run into the problem of not having anything to build as any additional units/cities do not help you.

I feel Mabraham is correct that we will not use whipping a great deal in the early game with so many hills to work and a larger than usual happy cap. But I still love having it if it is already researched.
 
Definitely heal the Warrior fully; combat odds are computed using integer arithmetic, so an additional 0.1 may not help but it could make the difference between 40% survival and 60% survival depending on what attacks it. Notice that the most dramatic odds variations that are sensitive to 0.1 (5/100 hit points in the case of a Warrior) are those close to 50% chance of winning/survival.

Regarding when a Technology completes, BUFFY includes all relevant bonuses when it displays the tick marks for each future turn on the Technology bar, but it assumes a constant Tech rate, so you do need to adjust for that if planning to add Pop working commerce plots or switching plots with different commerce values, etc.

Walter_Wolf, I'm fine with your PPP until Bronze Working completes (t33).

Sun Tzu Wu
 
PPP summary T30 – T33
I made a short summary of what most of us (if not all) agree.

Actions for turns 30 – 31 – 32 – 33

Amundsen: moved – moves SE - E – NE
Burke: heals – heals – moves SW - W
Columbus: moved – moves SE – SE – NW
Eiffel: worked – works farm – moves to PH – build mine
City MM: sheep, cow, spices – sheep, cow, corn - sheep, cow, corn - sheep, cow, corn

You must have been right about the tech rate bcool (of course). The last one of the buffy's tiny marks Sun Tzu Wu mentiones are almost at the right end of the research bar (check the 1st pic here) BW is done in 3 turns regardless the city MM.
We will have something like 12 new tiles „defogged“, and the very important info on wether there is bronze or not in the surroundings for the brainstorming sessions to follow.
Do I upload the save at T33 to the server or not?
Does anyone have an updated test map, or the skills and patience to create one? Maybe we could update/create one after the info we aquire on T33.

cheers
 
I've created a new test game. It's based off a Hub, with some modifications to encourage the East witches to find us first:)

I've followed as closely as possible, and I think I have the city details exactly right, but someone should probably check it if we're going to base serious decisions off this.

I regret to announce I have the BW research out by 1:science: :eek:, but somehow I don't think it'll matter much :)
 

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PPP summary T30 – T33
I made a short summary of what most of us (if not all) agree.

Actions for turns 30 – 31 – 32 – 33

Amundsen: moved – moves SE - E – NE
Burke: heals – heals – moves SW - W
Columbus: moved – moves SE – SE – NW
Eiffel: worked – works farm – moves to PH – build mine
City MM: sheep, cow, spices – sheep, cow, corn - sheep, cow, corn - sheep, cow, corn

You must have been right about the tech rate bcool (of course). The last one of the buffy's tiny marks Sun Tzu Wu mentiones are almost at the right end of the research bar (check the 1st pic here) BW is done in 3 turns regardless the city MM.
We will have something like 12 new tiles „defogged“, and the very important info on wether there is bronze or not in the surroundings for the brainstorming sessions to follow.
Do I upload the save at T33 to the server or not?
Does anyone have an updated test map, or the skills and patience to create one? Maybe we could update/create one after the info we aquire on T33.

cheers

PPP looks good to me. Probably no real need to upload to the server at T33. Just give us screenshots of anything you discover, such as where all that tasty bronze is.
 
PPP summary looks good to me. Just a friendly reminder, don't forgot to switch to the corn on T31 if for some reason it doesn't automatically switch over. I know I've forgotten to do that sometimes.
 
PPP summary looks good to me. Just a friendly reminder, don't forgot to switch to the corn on T31 if for some reason it doesn't automatically switch over. I know I've forgotten to do that sometimes.

Exactly, as far I remember, I had in my test games, to switch manually, so be careful, WW. Your PPP looks good. Since there is a consensus about mining riverside PH
first, I can delay any discussion of what forest to chop first.

I change my vote to heal for two turns (being crushed by majority and no time to test anything right now :sad:).

Good luck, WW!
 
PPP summary T30 – T33
I made a short summary of what most of us (if not all) agree.

Actions for turns 30 – 31 – 32 – 33

Amundsen: moved – moves SE - E – NE
Burke: heals – heals – moves SW - W
Columbus: moved – moves SE – SE – NW
Eiffel: worked – works farm – moves to PH – build mine
City MM: sheep, cow, spices – sheep, cow, corn - sheep, cow, corn - sheep, cow, corn
cheers



PPP looks good to me.
 
No bronze :sad:

And, Burke had a fight with a wolf this time. I can promote him to wodsman1 for healing purposes, and move to the forrested grassland hill to reveal some land, and save - end of mini - turnset.

What do you say? are you still online?

Civ4ScreenShot0342.JPG

google talk?
 
you can move him to the forested grassland hill and promote him to woodsman I for healing purposes if it isn't too late.

Wow crabs too...
 
Doesn't matter if you move and then promote, or promote and then move. All I meant by healing was that you would heal when you promoted him.
 
Unfortunately, bronze didn't pop up.
Amundsen's moves went as planned. No new resources found in the north. Columbus didn't find anything too.
Burke? well, burke is another story. He had a fight with a wolf between turns 32 and 33. Survived, but was on 1.3 health. After some panic (we should have set up a chat channel. It's never too late) and consultations with bcool (you can read all about it in the previous posts), he got woodsman 1 promotion, and will now heal for the next 2 turns.
The bright side of the mini-turnset is Burke did find a crabs and a clam tile. The crabs are in the (planned) second city's BFC. No game announcements (distand land stuff) were made, and I took screenshots of the demographics screen on each turn. Will check them later.
Eifell did the planned steps. He is building the mine, which should be finished in 4 turns.
Ah, I didn't forget the city MM (spices->corn switch) thanks for the reminder.
I will be uploading a few screenshots in a minute.

The 2nd worker will be produced the next turn. We have 4/26 food, so with 9 surpluss should grow in 3 turns (or start that settler). I never studied how worker production overflow works. Do we get only hammer overflow, or food too?

Spoiler :



The known world map is in the spoiler. There is no bronze, and the isthmus seems to extend to the South. (definetely a hub map).

Spoiler :



did I forget anything?

EDIT: I did, I did :wallbash:. I didn't check the sattelite wiew culture screen. Since that AI's scout came at turn 20+ (idk exactly), It shouldn't reveal much anyhow.
 

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I tried frogdude's excellent test game, and managed to build the great wall on T66, TGL at T83, and since I had stone, I even got the pyramids at T78.

Wanted to test the possibilities, and frogdude's report on the issue a few posts back

I went masonry - sailing - the wheel (to hook up the stone - should have got that before sailing - stupid) Settled 2nd the stone city and started the wall as 1st build. The lighthouse went in the 2nd - the gems site. With carefull management, this could be achieved with better results.

I believe we are on a hub map like kaitzilla pointed. If so, I think we should seek the wizard by sea, and plan a naval attack. We could even plan for a "isthmus city" or two to get passage through the map.

Domination victory might be hard to achieve on a watery map. So, a quick Construction war (Tachy's words) against the witches from the East, while seeking the wizard might be viable. If we manage that quickly, we could decide about a most suitable (fastest) victory condition.

cheers

EDIT: btw, I think we should name the player differently than Dorothy in the test games. I almost deleted the real game save from the saves folder 1 minute ago. It's great that you (frogdude) try to make the test as much similar as possible to the real game, but it may create confusion in others heads. No offence ment please.
 
OK I cleaned up my city planning spreadsheet and its manual. Please do refer to the manual - I'm happy to help but I really dislike repeating myself :) It requires OpenOffice, which is a free open-source spreadsheet program available for all platforms.

LibreOffice, the successor to OpenOffice, should work as well and would be a better choice than OpenOffice. Oracle seems to be killing all open source projects it got from the Sun Microsystems purchase. Then new open source projects rise like a Phoenix from the ashes of the projects Oracle killed.

Virtually all the OpenOffice developers moved to LibreOffice. The only one developing for OpenOffice now is the Oracle employee in charge of the OpenOffice project.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
... Probably no real need to upload to the server at T33. Just give us screenshots of anything you discover, such as where all that tasty bronze is. ...

I'd actually prefer that the game be uploaded to the server at each major stopping point. It will also be a nice record of our games which will be especially useful when we win!

After uploading the game, be sure to download it and continue your turn set with the new downloaded save file.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
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