SGOTM 21 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

[Sleepless]

Ran out of time tonight. I don't think we have enough troops for Louis especially as he now has knights and most of our cities are on infra builds.

I still like the idea of using the GE on the Taj especially as were likely to want some civic changes soon. Agree triple fish would be the place for it if we rush. Where would we slow build it? Possibly chop it out somewhere with a few forests. def need the marble for that though.

 

[namliaM]

With some pre-whipped buildings for maximum overflow, Triple fish would be the place to go I think.... Still has decent base hammers, but also loads of food to whip...
It has atleast four buildings available to go into an overflow whip that are not completely useless
Observatory, Market, 2 temples

Could also add Aquaduct and Harbor

 

[Sleepless]

With some pre-whipped buildings for maximum overflow, Triple fish would be the place to go I think.... Still has decent base hammers, but also loads of food to whip...
It has atleast four buildings available to go into an overflow whip that are not completely useless
Observatory, Market, 2 temples

Could also add Aquaduct and Harbor

To me Triple fish should concentrate on specialists/great people. Especially priest slots (temple/cathederal) if we gift Isabella her GPs.

 

[Ronnie1]

We are still stronger than Louis. He only has 3 cities on the main island we want to attack. I think if we don't sail now, it will get worse in the short run.

The AI suck at tactics. I am sure we have enough troops for Paris and Orleans, and then the pipeline will be back on.

 

[Sleepless]

My trouble is I can't decide whether to go for Liz or Louis first..

Liz will give us the MoM. Extra long Golden Ages will be huge. Plus we will want the civic changes.

Louis gives us some nice wonders plus another change to Representation to boost our tech through to Industrialism.

Well I think if we don't use the GE on the Taj we chop it out in the Hague. Lots of forest and if we go for Louis next gives us time to attack Liz and take London before its finished. We can leave her as the AP resident so she would be our opponent in any vote. Just a thought we can still be eligible for an AP victory even if we don't run the religion can't we?

Ok so basic PPP coming based on attacking Louis. Note it will be at least 5 turns for our current galleons to arrive there.

So civic changes... none planned

Tech... Not sure do we want the GM from Economics??? I think yes as were likely to be able to change to... Rep - Nat (my choice) - FM and FR in one go during a Golden Age.

City builds...

Athens.. Monastery - Observatory
Lakeside - Trebs non stop.
Double Gems - Temp - Units
Beaver Isle Temple - Units
Triple Fish - Temple - Monastery -Jewish Temple
Whorses - Courthouse - Units
Triple Clam - Temple - Barracks
Popcorn - Ch - Temp
IronWool - ch - temple
NorthFish - Missionary - Courthouse
Nongoma -Bks - Units
ShakaWales Forge - ch
The Hague Forge- ch
Ulundi - Barracks - units
Nowmung forge - ch
Kwaduzka - ch - forge
Nobamba gran - ch
West Fish gran - lhouse
Utrecht gran - court house
Amsterdam - gran - courthouse. Nice to have GG and GS settled here. Plus an Academy.
GreenBay gran - forge

Workers as I see fit.. Though 2 workers to Wil will give us the last Isabella favour.

So rough outline there.

I don't think looking at the save again we have enough galleons in place to attack Loius in the next 5 or 6 turns. Though perhaps I'm playing it to cautious?

Would stop after five turns to re-evaluate..

 

[Ronnie1]

Looking at the save, a couple thoughts.

We should slow gpp in 3 Fish and let 3 Clam produce the next GP.

Temples may not be required everywhere yet. If we are not against the happy cap, or the Temple doesn't boost us to a 25% bonus, or we don't need the priest slot, I would build units first. If we get against the cap, 2 pop whip a unit and overflow to the Temples.

City builds...

Athens.. Monastery - Observatory
yep
Lakeside - Trebs non stop.
yep, or mix
Double Gems - Temp - Units
You could insert a unit to whip and finish the Temple with overflow.
Beaver Isle Temple - Units
I would 2 pop whip galleons into the Temple maybe.
Triple Fish - Temple - Monastery -Jewish Temple
I would skip the Monastery.
Whorses - Courthouse - Units
Whip the CH after 1 more turn
Triple Clam - Temple - Barracks
I would go galleon here and 2 pop whip it after it pops its GP in 6, overflow finishes the Temple.
Popcorn - Ch - Temp
yep
IronWool - ch - temple
galleons after CH imo
NorthFish - Missionary - Courthouse
Just keep pumping missionaries. Maybe 2 pop whip one every now and then and overflow to the CH. Also, might work the plains cottage for Popcorn here.
Nongoma -Bks - Units
yep
ShakaWales Forge - ch
From here down, if the cities are small, they may not need CH's. Just evaluate them as you come to them. If we have food to whip, then whip.
The Hague Forge- ch
Ulundi - Barracks - units
Nowmung forge - ch
Kwaduzka - ch - forge
Nobamba gran - ch
West Fish gran - lhouse
Utrecht gran - court house
Amsterdam - gran - courthouse. Nice to have GG and GS settled here. Plus an Academy.
GreenBay gran - forge

A galleon chain along our coast will allow movement from our very reward areas much faster than road travel. I would like to see continued galleon production in at least a city or 2.

I would prefer teching GP > Chem. Try to trade for some of the economic line and still have a chance at the GM.

My thinking on the Louis attack. The caravel south of France needs to go north and scout for units. I expect less than 15 on the main island. Every unit we can muster lands on the gems 24 loaded currently. We take Paris the next turn and Orleans 2-3 turns later. By then we should have some reinforcements in the pipeline.

 

[nocho]

I still think the situation is ideal for conquering Liz's western 3 or 4 cities in the next 3 turns and then move onto Louis. By then an extra few galleons will be available and some other cities (notably some Zulu ones) can contribute extra units. The Taj golden age can be launched significantly earlier for 12 turns, by the end of that we will have mids too and can go representation.

I wouldn't go economics, isa's summer house is much cheaper and easier than gifting away 3 great people. Not against buying the last clue though. If we want to get it, I'd just spend the cash on it now. Easiest and we're short on workers. Capturing English cities will fund that too.

 

[namliaM]

If we are short on workers simply gift them to WvO for the clue and wipe him out next turn after recovering what ever cash we can.

Also takes care of any "we long for our homeland" nonsense in his 3 captured cities. And he is quite useless after the last clue anyways.

 

[Sleepless]

If we are short on workers simply gift them to WvO for the clue and wipe him out next turn after recovering what ever cash we can.

Also takes care of any "we long for our homeland" nonsense in his 3 captured cities. And he is quite useless after the last clue anyways.

Have to allow 10 turns for peace but def a good idea.

Also galleon chaining am I missing something here. I know how to switch units from one ship to another but once the ship has unloaded its troops it either has to use the next turn to go back or just move a couple of squares then go back again. I can't see much advantage in it..

 

[Sleepless]

Looking at the save, a couple thoughts.

We should slow gpp in 3 Fish and let 3 Clam produce the next GP.

Temples may not be required everywhere yet. If we are not against the happy cap, or the Temple doesn't boost us to a 25% bonus, or we don't need the priest slot, I would build units first. If we get against the cap, 2 pop whip a unit and overflow to the Temples.



A galleon chain along our coast will allow movement from our very reward areas much faster than road travel. I would like to see continued galleon production in at least a city or 2.

I would prefer teching GP > Chem. Try to trade for some of the economic line and still have a chance at the GM.

My thinking on the Louis attack. The caravel south of France needs to go north and scout for units. I expect less than 15 on the main island. Every unit we can muster lands on the gems 24 loaded currently. We take Paris the next turn and Orleans 2-3 turns later. By then we should have some reinforcements in the pipeline.

The main reason obviously for all the temples is the AP hammers. Most cities now have 10+ maintenance so really want ch's in most. I was also planning on using the whip quite a bit... ..

Still undecided on whether to go Liz first??? Leave her the AP city and she will be our opponent.. Have to go to work now so be back later to this one..

 

[Ronnie1]

There are about 25 units visible on Liz's island with 6 cities.

I expect much less from Louis' 3 cities.

That is my basic thinking.

Also, leaving the AP in Liz's hands is positive for us imo. There are only 2 cities west of the AP I think.

 

[Sleepless]

There are about 25 units visible on Liz's island with 6 cities.

I expect much less from Louis' 3 cities.

That is my basic thinking.

Also, leaving the AP in Liz's hands is positive for us imo. There are only 2 cities west of the AP I think.

Well I am pretty easy on leaving Liz for a while but we do want the MoM before we finish the Taj. Mansa will be able to tech at a very fast rate so not sure how far he will be behind us in getting nationalism.

Of course we do need to check out Louis so will spy with the caravel and see whats there.

Have noted your comments on builds..

Double Gems will struggle to grow if we whip there. Saying that not a lot of good tiles to work..

Beaver Isle is the same really with just 1 clam but at least it will grow reasonably. So not against whipping.

Triple fish was thinking of getting the ap hammers there so at least it produces hammers whilst working specialists. Will forget the priest slots if we don't go for Economics.

triple Clam.. Noted about getting spec before 3f.. We do need galleons and was planning some in the unit builds.

North fish.. Can concentrate on missionairies but do need a ch there.

Also I'd be thinking of going Free Religion at the same time as Rep etc. The boost to tech and lower cost are worth doing imho..

 

[Sleepless]

Also will stop after a few turns to re-evaluate...

Any views on my plan for the Taj?? If we don't use the GE.. We can always change our mind later as the forests will only be pre-chopped.

Tech path will be Lib - Nat - Gunpowder - chem. Hopefully trade for Guilds somewhere along the way though we've not got a lot for a cheap trade.

 

[Ronnie1]

Double Gems and Beaver can steal the wheat and 2nd crab back from time to time.

 

[Sleepless]

Well played a couple of turns..

Save uploaded but nothing done this turn..

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 880 AD to 920 AD:

Turn 154, 880 AD: Athens has grown to size 13.
Turn 154, 880 AD: Whorses has grown to size 8.
Turn 154, 880 AD: NorthFish has grown to size 7.
Turn 154, 880 AD: The Hague can hurry Forge for 2⇴ with 6ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 18 turns.
Turn 154, 880 AD: Ulundi has grown to size 5.
Turn 154, 880 AD: kwaDukuza has grown to size 5.
Turn 154, 880 AD: 2 West Fish has grown to size 3.
Turn 154, 880 AD: Utrecht can hurry Granary for 1⇴ with 6ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 154, 880 AD: Mao Zedong has 80 gold available for trade.
Turn 154, 880 AD: Pericles's Trireme 1 (Whorses) (2.20) vs Barbarian's Galley (1.42)
Turn 154, 880 AD: Combat Odds: 91.0%
Turn 154, 880 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 154, 880 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 154, 880 AD: (Class Attack: -50%)
Turn 154, 880 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 154, 880 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 154, 880 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 154, 880 AD: Pericles's Trireme 1 (Whorses) is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 154, 880 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 154, 880 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 154, 880 AD: Pericles's Trireme 1 (Whorses) has defeated Barbarian's Galley!
Turn 154, 880 AD: Your Trireme 1 (Whorses) has destroyed a Galley!
Turn 154, 880 AD: DoubleGems will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 154, 880 AD: The Hague will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 154, 880 AD: Isabella has 70 gold available for trade.
Turn 154, 880 AD: Catherine has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 154, 880 AD: Mao Zedong has 80 gold available for trade.
Turn 154, 880 AD: Mansa Musa has 80 gold available for trade.
Turn 154, 880 AD: Louis XIV is the worst enemy of Elizabeth.
Turn 154, 880 AD: Elizabeth is the worst enemy of Louis XIV, Isabella.
Turn 154, 880 AD: Mansa Musa will trade Divine Right
Turn 154, 880 AD: Mansa Musa will trade Copper
Turn 154, 880 AD: Will Trade Map: Louis XIV, Mansa Musa, Mao Zedong, Willem van Oranje
Turn 154, 880 AD: DoubleGems will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 154, 880 AD: The Hague will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 154, 880 AD: Mao Zedong has founded Ningbo in a distant land.
Turn 154, 880 AD: St. Peter (Great Prophet) has been born in Walata (Mansa Musa)!

Turn 155, 900 AD: DoubleGems has grown to size 6.
Turn 155, 900 AD: DoubleGems can hurry Christian Temple for 1⇴ with 12ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 28 turns.
Turn 155, 900 AD: The Hague has grown to size 5.
Turn 155, 900 AD: Ulundi can hurry Barracks for 1⇴ with 38ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 24 turns.
Turn 155, 900 AD: Louis XIV has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 155, 900 AD: The borders of Utrecht are about to expand.
Turn 155, 900 AD: Louis XIV will trade Guilds
Turn 155, 900 AD: Lakeside will grow to size 14 on the next turn.
Turn 155, 900 AD: Nongoma will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 155, 900 AD: ShakaWhales will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 155, 900 AD: Ulundi will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 155, 900 AD: kwaDukuza will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 155, 900 AD: You have discovered Guilds!
Turn 155, 900 AD: Pericles is the first to discover Liberalism!
Turn 155, 900 AD: You have discovered Liberalism!
Turn 155, 900 AD: The borders of Utrecht have expanded!
Turn 155, 900 AD: Antony van Leeuwenhoek (Great Scientist) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 155, 900 AD: Mansa Musa has completed Angkor Wat!

Turn 156, 920 AD: Athens can hurry Observatory for 2⇴ with 20ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 23 turns.
Turn 156, 920 AD: Lakeside has grown to size 14.
Turn 156, 920 AD: Lakeside can hurry Trebuchet for 1⇴ with 35ℤ overflow, 15ℴ added to the treasury, and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 156, 920 AD: Beaver Isle can hurry Galleon for 2⇴ with 12ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 50 turns.
Turn 156, 920 AD: Whorses can hurry Galleon for 2⇴ with 37ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 22 turns.
Turn 156, 920 AD: Nongoma has grown to size 5.
Turn 156, 920 AD: Nongoma can hurry Maceman for 2⇴ with 20ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 20 turns.
Turn 156, 920 AD: ShakaWhales has grown to size 7.
Turn 156, 920 AD: Ulundi has grown to size 6.
Turn 156, 920 AD: NotuMgung can hurry Courthouse for 2⇴ with 20ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 156, 920 AD: kwaDukuza has grown to size 6.
Turn 156, 920 AD: kwaDukuza can hurry Courthouse for 3⇴ with 9ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 13 turns.
Turn 156, 920 AD: 2 West Fish can hurry Granary for 1⇴ with 6ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 156, 920 AD: Amsterdam will be pacified on the next turn.
Turn 156, 920 AD: Isabella has 90 gold available for trade.
Turn 156, 920 AD: The borders of GreenBay are about to expand.
Turn 156, 920 AD: Louis XIV will trade Banking
Turn 156, 920 AD: Will Trade Map: Catherine
Turn 156, 920 AD: You have discovered Nationalism!

Buffy Log

Spoiler :

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 154/500 (880 AD) [05-Apr-2015 22:18:20]
DoubleGems begins: Maceman (10 turns)
Beaver Isle begins: Galleon (80 turns)
100% Research: 806 per turn
0% Culture: 157 per turn
0% Espionage: 16 per turn
0% Gold: -380 per turn, 1496 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Beaver Isle
The whip was applied in Whorses
Athens finishes: Christian Monastery
Lakeside finishes: Trebuchet
DoubleGems grows to size 6
Beaver Isle grows to size 4
Beaver Isle finishes: Christian Temple
Whorses finishes: Courthouse
Nongoma finishes: Barracks
The Hague grows to size 5

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Louis XIV (France) towards Pericles (Greece), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'

Turn 155/500 (900 AD) [05-Apr-2015 22:23:37]
Athens begins: Observatory (6 turns)
Lakeside begins: Trebuchet (2 turns)
Beaver Isle begins: Galleon (27 turns)
Whorses begins: Galleon (6 turns)
Nongoma begins: Maceman (7 turns)
A Farm was built near IronWool
A Camp was built near Utrecht
Tech traded to Louis XIV (France): Philosophy
Tech traded to Louis XIV (France): Paper
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Guilds
Tech traded to Catherine (Russia): Code of Laws
Lakeside begins: Trebuchet (2 turns)
100% Research: 823 per turn
0% Culture: 160 per turn
0% Espionage: 18 per turn
0% Gold: -389 per turn, 1046 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Nobamba
Tech research finished: Liberalism
A Town was built near Athens
Lakeside grows to size 14
Tripple Fish finishes: Christian Temple
Popcorn finishes: Courthouse
Nongoma grows to size 5
ShakaWhales grows to size 7
Ulundi grows to size 6
Ulundi finishes: Barracks
kwaDukuza grows to size 6
Nobamba finishes: Granary
Utrecht's borders expand

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Louis XIV (France) towards Willem van Oranje (Netherlands), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Elizabeth (England) towards Pericles (Greece), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Catherine (Russia) towards Pericles (Greece), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'

Turn 156/500 (920 AD) [05-Apr-2015 22:38:24]
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Nationalism
Research begun: Gunpowder (1 Turns)
Tripple Fish begins: Market (12 turns)
Tripple Fish begins: Knight (9 turns)
Popcorn begins: Galleon (7 turns)
Ulundi begins: Maceman (5 turns)
Nobamba begins: Forge (20 turns)
Research begun: Constitution (3 Turns)
Research begun: Gunpowder (1 Turns)
Research begun: Gunpowder (1 Turns)

Thought it was a good time to stop before we committed to attacking Louis. His cities will take sometime to knock down defences as he has castles in all of them plus CI defence bonus.

Also managed to trade for guilds using philo/paper + some gold. Took Nationalism from Lib as planned.

Looking to carry on in about 24 hours.

 

[Ronnie1]

Looks good overall sleepless!

We haven't built enough workers imo.

Worker support needed at Nongoma, The Hague for sure.

Couple things I see.

Popcorn would be our second best commerce city with a Harbor next.

Would love to get Christian missionaries to the civs not yet infected.

Here is how I would go about attacking Louis, and yes I still think that is best. Those 3 cites are awesome!

Spoiler :

You can get to the DOW spot in 4T and still have 3 movement left after the DOW to get back to the gem hill.

Good Luck!

 

[Sleepless]

My main concern with Louis was the time it will take to reduce his defences. A treb I believe knocks off 4% and a cat 2%. So 125% defences will take a while to whittle down. Will look at Ulundi producing trebs so we can promote some accuracy ones. Even then it will take quite a while to get in to position to attack. Also going to need to keep the galleons bunched up otherwise we could lose a few to mass attacks.. ..

Agree on the need for more workers.. Lots of uninmproved tiles. Will look to insert an odd worker build here and there. Priority I think has to be military for my turnset.

Another edit if we get a GS do we use to bulb chemistry (or does PP come next). Think its PP so save for a GA.

 

[Ronnie1]

There aren't that many units! I would not reduce to 0% or anywhere near it.

Land the first 21 units, bombard 1-2 turns max while the rest of the units land and then sacrifice the siege! Build replacement siege now and get it in the galleon chain that will develop after the initial landing.

 

[Ronnie1]

Looked at it again.

Changed my mind completely.

Let's get London and Nottingham now and then peace with Liz.

That will give us enough time to get to Chem > Steel.

Stack a Cat + Treb (NOT complete) in a number of cities so they upgrade to cannon builds for completion with steel.

Build Maces that can be upgraded to Grenadiers.

Get our galleon chain along the coast in line so we can move units across the globe in a turn.

 

[Sleepless]

grens will need Mil Science. Not something we want to tech. Cannons + anything will be good enough for anybody.

As I mentioned in a previous post how are we going to set up a galleon chain? I've never really taken to much notice of it before and we've never used it in SGOTM's either.

Ok with attacking Liz as Louis will cost a lot of units. Paris on a hill etc.