SGOTM 21 - Xteam
- Thread starter AlanH
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Dhoomstriker
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Okay, but that's counting Wealth builds.
There are only 2 Cities in which we can build Failure Gold for the Heroic Epic, and Gems is a pretty bad spot to do it, so X-opolis is the place to do it.
It will be nice to get a Trade Mission, but it will only carry us so far. We will still need Gold after the Trade Mission gets executed.
We want The Heroic Epic before whipping Tanks, but it doesn't necessarily benefit us by getting completed in the short term, as long as we continue to put Failure Gold into it.
Hammers going into a Customs House now won't do a whole lot for us as we won't complete it until sometime when we're back in Organized Religion AND have grown the City to about Size 15, which won't be for a while as we'll soon need to hire 4 to 5 Scientists per turn in X-ops.
Dhoomstriker
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Don't you mean 31 Gold? Final Hammers come out of Failure Gold, not base Hammers, which is what makes it so powerful when Hammer-multipliers are involved.
Next time it would be easier to answer questions with a saved game in front of me.
That's 180 Hammers which we don't have and won't have for a while. So, it's actually going to be 0 Commerce for quite some time no matter how many Hammers get put into it now.
Dhoomstriker
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Since Surfin' Turf was reasonably close to being Unhappy, you could even turn a Farm into an Engineer there, which gives us +5 Gold per turn.
Dhoomstriker
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I'm not sure how far you were planning on playing, but if you think that you can remember to do everything that is required with our Galleons, Workers, and Settlers on T144, then it would be nice to stop on T145 at the latest (at least for long enough to give feedback on a saved game) so that we can plan out things like Hippos' build items and which squares to work when putting Hammers into those build items. That's another reason to focus more on Wealth now than by dividing our total Gold by 4, as we may need to switch out of some Wealth builds on future turns.
Things for off of the top of my head T144:
Work the Cow in Marble and guard it with our Crossbowman
William Galleon picks up Worker 12 and heads eastward and the Hindu Missionary moves to board the William Galleon on the next turn
Worker 7 (near New Amsterdam) will board the William Galleon next turn, so he needs to stop his action, which was probably a pWindmill on the P Riv that is 1S of New Amsterdam
Worker 4 (2S of X-ops) shouldn't complete the Windmill
Galleon 2 (1E of Sleepy Sheep) doesn't move until he has 2 Workers and a Settler on board
The 2 Workers in Galleon 2 unload in Tekedda and move 1NE to build a Road there
Things for off of the top of my head T144:
Work the Cow in Marble and guard it with our Crossbowman
William Galleon picks up Worker 12 and heads eastward and the Hindu Missionary moves to board the William Galleon on the next turn
Worker 7 (near New Amsterdam) will board the William Galleon next turn, so he needs to stop his action, which was probably a pWindmill on the P Riv that is 1S of New Amsterdam
Worker 4 (2S of X-ops) shouldn't complete the Windmill
Galleon 2 (1E of Sleepy Sheep) doesn't move until he has 2 Workers and a Settler on board
The 2 Workers in Galleon 2 unload in Tekedda and move 1NE to build a Road there
turn 144
sold compass to Isabella for 90 gold.
Sold optics to France for 60 gold and world map.
IBT
China is attacking the huns. Defence down to 1.5 archers.
Spain is moving a settler north of Gao.
turn 145
Got scientific method.
Captured 4 workers outside of London.
Queen Elizabeth kills a Trimeme without getting hurt.
Failed capturing Hastings loosing 1 cat and 1 WE. 1 HA left at 1.5 health. 2 full strength war elephants will be able to capture next turn.
sold compass to Isabella for 90 gold.
Sold optics to France for 60 gold and world map.
IBT
China is attacking the huns. Defence down to 1.5 archers.
Spain is moving a settler north of Gao.
turn 145
Got scientific method.
Captured 4 workers outside of London.
Queen Elizabeth kills a Trimeme without getting hurt.
Failed capturing Hastings loosing 1 cat and 1 WE. 1 HA left at 1.5 health. 2 full strength war elephants will be able to capture next turn.
I tried the shift clicking to look at trade routes again this turn and my GM moved as soon as I let go of shift. Is there a way to prevent that. Walata has been whiped and at the moment Kumbi Saleh is our best option at 1700 gold. Might change next turn again.
Dhoomstriker
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I don't know about you, but I don't want the Industrious guy who has Marble getting anywhere close to Nationalism.
We should check the Event Log to see when he last switched Civics before daring to sell him Banking.
I'm not sure that we should be handing out Astronomy, as he might then beat us to settling Mao's area, Toku's area, or some other nastiness.
Anyway, I'll take a look at the saved game.
Dhoomstriker
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That's an interesting question. Feel free to set up a test game to check.
Note that having 3 more population points above City Size 10 is almost certainly going to make a Trade Mission more valuable.
However, we need our Great Person out of X-ops if we're going to have a Trade Mission.
So, by the very fact that we are going to execute a Trade Mission, we force ourselves not to Whip, so that we can hire our Specialists in X-ops.
Thus, I don't think that the answer will be relevant to our game.
Dhoomstriker
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I did suggest moving the Great Merchant directly into Kumbi Saleh on T145 for this reason, as you can only check Trade Mission values when inside of a City and it is a lot easier not to mess up when you are either:
a) on another continent
OR
b) inside of a City with 0 movement points remaining
The answer is to press the Backspace key while Shift is still held down, but shift-clicking in Civ 4 doesn't always consistently work, so there's a danger of it messing up.
Both Cities have Harbours and Walata is larger in City Size. I'd probably still stick with Walata, especially since the City has 4 Food Resources, so it's likely to regrow by the time that we arrive there.
Dhoomstriker
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Things are really looking great!
In terms of the Workers and Settlers:
It's good that the Workers are in the right positions
We went 2 squares farther south than expected with Galleon 2, but we'll still be able to unload our Settler in Salamanca on T147
Not having built a Road 1N of Piscatorium is proving to be a costly logistics-wise, as each boat has to spend an extra 2 movement points to pick up our units
Marble City:
It's nice that we're guarding our Cow, but we also need to be working it in the City
Elizabeth:
It's interesting that you managed to score Elizabeth's Workers
Galleon 7 is going to have to help with transportation at Hastings... we have 11 units and only 5 spots on our 2 Galleons there, so we'll need that third Galleon
Galleon 7 should promote to Flanking I (not to Combat II)
Also, we need to start thinking about what to do with our boats around Elizabeth and have a plan, rather than just moving them around because we can
For example, while it's nice to be efficient about getting troops into place, it'll be equally important to get troops into position afterward.
Let's say that we're going to redeclare war on Elizabeth 1 turn after capturing Coventry, when she loses her AP Resident position.
Well, we'll need a kill unit (non-Catapult unit) for each of her Cities on a Galleon within reach of each of her Cities. The same Galleon can carry multiple kill-units for multiple Cities if we manually unload each unit instead of moving our Galleon into a City (which would unload all units into the City).
After that, we'll need to plan to have our Galleons in position to launch an attack on either Shaka or Catherine.
If it's Shaka, Chariot 3 probably shouldn't run away and should probably help with defending Utrecht.
Do we feel up for a war on Catherine? She looks to have at least 7 Cities, probably closer to 10 or 12 Cities.
With Railroads, 2-movement Tanks, and a ton of Galleons, we don't necessarily need to go to war with Catherine.
I think that we need to answer that question before we figure out the logistics: shall we skip attacking Catherine?
Let's say that we need 30 Galleons for 2 Galleon-chains.
Note that we can finally build our Fort canal without needing to settle a City.
I'm thinking that we lack the real-life time to perform a war against Catherine, so I'm leaning toward going for Shaka after we recapture Elizabeth's Liberated Cities.
It would also be nice to have a small force grab the Barb City near Louis before he Culture-flips it or captures it himself, so as to Liberate it to Louis.
I'll look at micro details now.
In terms of the Workers and Settlers:
It's good that the Workers are in the right positions
We went 2 squares farther south than expected with Galleon 2, but we'll still be able to unload our Settler in Salamanca on T147
Not having built a Road 1N of Piscatorium is proving to be a costly logistics-wise, as each boat has to spend an extra 2 movement points to pick up our units
Marble City:
It's nice that we're guarding our Cow, but we also need to be working it in the City
Elizabeth:
It's interesting that you managed to score Elizabeth's Workers
Galleon 7 is going to have to help with transportation at Hastings... we have 11 units and only 5 spots on our 2 Galleons there, so we'll need that third Galleon
Galleon 7 should promote to Flanking I (not to Combat II)
Also, we need to start thinking about what to do with our boats around Elizabeth and have a plan, rather than just moving them around because we can
For example, while it's nice to be efficient about getting troops into place, it'll be equally important to get troops into position afterward.
Let's say that we're going to redeclare war on Elizabeth 1 turn after capturing Coventry, when she loses her AP Resident position.
Well, we'll need a kill unit (non-Catapult unit) for each of her Cities on a Galleon within reach of each of her Cities. The same Galleon can carry multiple kill-units for multiple Cities if we manually unload each unit instead of moving our Galleon into a City (which would unload all units into the City).
After that, we'll need to plan to have our Galleons in position to launch an attack on either Shaka or Catherine.
If it's Shaka, Chariot 3 probably shouldn't run away and should probably help with defending Utrecht.
Do we feel up for a war on Catherine? She looks to have at least 7 Cities, probably closer to 10 or 12 Cities.
With Railroads, 2-movement Tanks, and a ton of Galleons, we don't necessarily need to go to war with Catherine.
I think that we need to answer that question before we figure out the logistics: shall we skip attacking Catherine?
Let's say that we need 30 Galleons for 2 Galleon-chains.
Note that we can finally build our Fort canal without needing to settle a City.
I'm thinking that we lack the real-life time to perform a war against Catherine, so I'm leaning toward going for Shaka after we recapture Elizabeth's Liberated Cities.
It would also be nice to have a small force grab the Barb City near Louis before he Culture-flips it or captures it himself, so as to Liberate it to Louis.
I'll look at micro details now.
I looked at the code for trade mission and it shows that customs house in the city you do a trade mission in gives you more gold.
I think I can calculate the exact value of trade routes now if I can get information on harbours/customs houses.
I think I can calculate the exact value of trade routes now if I can get information on harbours/customs houses.
At our size 13, sizes 13-28 gives 1900 gold. It seems like the size of target city has very little impact.
If we grow to size 15 we can get 2100 gold from size 12-24. But we might not want to wait 5 turns.
Kumbi Saleh will not see our city beeing larger the 16 because of distance.
It seems like Kumbi Saleh is as good option as Walata unless it gets whipped.
If we grow to size 15 we can get 2100 gold from size 12-24. But we might not want to wait 5 turns.
Kumbi Saleh will not see our city beeing larger the 16 because of distance.
It seems like Kumbi Saleh is as good option as Walata unless it gets whipped.
