SGOTM 22 - Insolita Suspicatur

[kcd_swede]

Yes, judging by what we see and the tech rate the AI are exhibiting, plus what normal AI capiyol should get... civ capitol are great to take.

But remember the situation is not static... by the time we get elepults, he will have his unique unit too,

I think we expand as fast as we can, and then kill them alll with modern armor.

Ben where ru

 

[Zhary]

Run some tests.
If we would go for the souther iron I could only get 3 preats by turn 120 compared to 3phants+7pults for not pressing toward a fourth city so early. On the other hand we also could include the 8 archers to the 3 preats army but no cats that early.

I also tested with archepults against AIs with the gifted starts we see here and its hard to take them at turn 120 which is a set point for a catsstack by now.

I would go for elepults also because hannis special unit. Rushing a library in Wineyard is not a shame to its a commerce city anyway. But if you disagree with elepults I would prefer going for the souther iron rather than archepults.

Btw another conclusion is that we need a third worker. I have some other micro ideas but they are not that important:

tech:archery->med+ph+Mon->math+Const->Agri->HBR

Rome build:
2 Archers->worker->gran->Barrack->Cats

The scienist in rome take a pause while we are building the worker and then we hire them again until we have const.

north worker:
prechop->chop 2 forest for library->cow

south worker:
3 cottages->Prechop romes forest

Fishy:
change to mine to finish first wb then work fish+cottages
2 WB+gran

 

[haphazard1]

I would like some more exploration around the iron by our pair of warriors. If there is seafood that could be combined into the city, then it would become a lot more attractive (seafood + deer + gems + iron would be pretty solid, and without needing to fight a war to get it). If the deer is the only food around, then it obviously would be a much poorer choice.

 

[Benginal]

I'm up, yeah?

I'll make a PPPP tomorrow over-viewing the options. Should be up in about 18 hours.

 

[Deckhand]

... there is weird (not natural by map rolling) coastal tiles near Fishy. This could mean a path to an AI we need to kill is availanle before Astro.

Keep in mind that Pollux said he always builds his maps from scratch. Wiping whatever is there and then building a map.

 

[Zhary]

New idea if you guys like souther iron: Lets go for both elephants and praets. Elephants to match Hannis special unit and praets just because they are great.

We could have an army of 3 prates+3 phants+6 cats ready to march at turn 125 instead of turn 120. I runned a test with that army against longbows and it worked fine to. If so we should not super rush iron city for the cost of late cats. We will just end up waste hammers in rome for some turns then. We should still chop out the library in Wineyard. The hurried library is just a trade of 1,2 cat for the availabilty of phants and some faster reasearch I don't think its a waste at all.

 

[haphazard1]

Can we handle the requirements for both cities (pop in the capital, buildings, troops)? If so I like the idea -- elephants and praets together are a very strong combination, covering each other's weaknesses. Each city also offers happiness, plus more production potential for future troops. The gems at the iron site should also help make it at least neutral economically once the city grows a size or two.

 

[Zhary]

Hap have you noticed that we only need a city by the iron. For phants we only need 100 culture in wineyard thats why we want to hurry the library there.

 

[haphazard1]

Ack! You are of course correct, Zhary. I need to look at the save more carefully before commenting.

 

[kcd_swede]

Like the library idea to get the elephants. With religion, we can handle a city 4 no problem. We need to be sure that we can keep whatever good capitol we go for, so Monarchy is a must (as is archery, and we need 8 archers before city 4).

I think the religion meshes well with Priesthood, on the way to Monarchy.

I wonder if we can speed things up by going to Slavery asap. We have lots of whip potential. But really, to take advantage of it, we need Monarchy, so it might be best to beeline Monarchy and do the civics change. Constr and HBR can wait, in that scenario.

Exploring wb is a must... as DH points out (and metal placement confirms) we are dealing with a highly artificial map, and the only way to be on top of the curve which such a map is to explore it.!!!

 

[Benginal]

Hey guys I'm sorry, but the weekend has just gotten way fuller -- phd life holding back my civ time. Can one of you take over this turnset and I'll take the next one?

 

[kcd_swede]

haphazard1, can you play it? Otherwise I'll suggest Zhary.

 

[haphazard1]

I should be able to play the next set. I will put together a PPP and get it posted within the next 24 hours or so. All suggestions and recommendations are of course welcome. Looks like some key points are some archers/defense in case Saladin is coming for us, library to help expand borders and get the elephants, an exploring work boat (or perhaps two?). Need to look at the save to put more details into the plan.

 

[Zhary]

Goodluck hap

Some ideas for the PPP:
Improve the fish before exporing1 I cant really see how 8 turns extra exploring could match improved fish at this point.

If we get a Gscientist we should really bulb math because the library in wineyard is better chopped than whipped at this point.

Monarchy before agri Rome has time to growth to size 8 before we got 8 archers+settler+walking time anyway.

It might be better to build the settler in Wineyard because it can be whipped there. If so Wineyard should be at least size 4 ie some turns building a gran if the library is chopped with 30 hammers forests.

 

[haphazard1]

OK, reviewed the save. Here is a mini-PPP, as it looks like this set might be better done in a couple chunks with pauses for feedback from the team.

Duration of first chunk: 3 turns (until we pop the great person and see what type it is)

Civics: No changes yet. (We will want slavery at some point, but it would be nice if we could combine the swap with Monarchy.

Religion: Do we want to adopt Judaism?. The happiness would be helpful for the capital. Saladin and Zara would like us more (although Saladin may have alredy decided to attack us and swapping would not change that), but Brennus and Hannibal would like us less.

Technology: Archery (2 turns) -> ??? (Maybe run 1 turn of 100% gold while we wait to see about the great person, in case we want to bulb with it.)

Espionage: Continue points on Saladin

Diplomacy: Do we want to sign some open borders? Possible with Zara (no one dislikes him too badly), Brennus (worst enemy of Darius), or Darius (worst enemy of Hannibal, Saladin, Brennus). I think Zara is a yes, Darius is a no, Brennus is a maybe.

Capital: Continues on granary for 2 turns, then switches to archer once the tech is done.
Wineyard: Continues on library
Fishy: Continues on work boat

Workers: Both move toward Wineyard to improve its cows (will pop borders to cover them in 2 turns, we need to improve that tile quickly and they are not doing anything urgent right now anyway). Will part-build roads along way as possible for efficiency.

Military: Pair of warriors near iron explore coast looking for seafood

 

[Deckhand]

Green from me. You've covered everything I thought of. Note that I haven't opened the save.

 

[Zhary]

I don't see the point having our worker running back and forth across the land. I think we rather need cottages in Fishy asap to get our tech rate even higher. When I tested 1 worker to improve the cow+ double chop was enough to get the phants at the same turn as hbr was finished. So if we focus on Wineyard we have to wait for our tech rate rather than the borderpop. However faster cow give somewhat better production so it means faster iron but still I prefer a bit higher techrate. I also think that Fishy should finish the first wb with the shared mine. When rome is done with the scientist it would want it back to build those 8 archers and a worker.

My vote for religion goes to judaism but I wont give a red light for not revolting.

 

[kcd_swede]

I'd take OB with Zara only. We won't need OB to explore their lands with a GSpy if we get one. If we get a GSci, we will re-evaluate the others.

Might wait on Judaism only because if we decide on golden age from GSpy (after city 4 and can do slavery/monarchy switches too, without revolt), we save a turn. Hard to see how an extra citizen saves a turn at this stage. Again, re-evaluate as we progress.

Don't wait on archery... do 1 t at 100% gold after archery, not into Math, though as it is a potential bulb. Med, perhaps as that moves us to PH/Monarcy

Check for more red fists appearing.

Green

 

[haphazard1]

Fishy is not going to have pop to work cottages for a while, especially if we want to get another work boat out for exploration. I could leave one worker there, but it would slow Wineward's development a bit.

So green from Deckhand and kcd_swede, some reservations from Zhary, no word from Benginal. Not sure if I should proceed to play, or wait for more feedback/make changes to the plan? Thoughts?

 

[Zhary]

Fishy will be size 2 in just a few turns depending on if we start with the mine now or stay at the fish. When archery and the GP is finished Rome would want the shared mine back or it will work unimproved tiles. I don't think continuing with the scientist are worth it when we need archers and grow to size 8 in time. Also a third worker built with the four mines of rome for all the unimproved tiles once we have monarchy would be great.

Building only 1 cottage at fishy would also be an alternative but then the cow are impoved when the second worker gets there anyway so.

But its not a game changing decision so do as you like. It might be more important choices in the future that we might have to rush if we get stuck on micro all the time.

Green and good luck