SGOTM 22 - TTfkapr

[Gumbolt]

Well done Shulec for taking on the challenge. Yes if he settles the city above fish that will be closer. The main advantage of the galley is the spies can't be caught before they try the steal. Maybe a mix of both. They will end up back in the capital if they succeed. Maybe the galley can pick up

I will laugh if Celts do a naval assault. Maybe the spy from the iron city can board the galley when it reaches the trojan city. Will need to remember which is which.

 

[yyeah]

Sry i forgot about test game i try to update it toomorow. Iam busy right now.

 

[shulec]

PPP T119-T124​

Research
Bank all gold. 0% research on PH, then Aesthetics

Begging/Cash/Diplo
Beg for 50 gold from Hannibal
Beg for 50 gold from Gilgamesh
Attempt to buy peace from Darius (0.01% chance of success)
Upgrade Combat II warrior to a spear in Rome if no peace.
Beg Brennus once pleased if an army starts gathering nearby

Rome
Move two archers and spear to 2S2E of Rome in case Darius goes at Horse. Promote spear to Combat II
Steal mine from fish
Build Spear in Rome in two turns.
Build Preatorian after Spear
Worker in south heads to Fish to chop and/or farm.

Fish City
Work both cottages
Stop building barracks to later come back and 2 pop whip with max overflow.
Build Preatorian, finish with Barracks overflow hammers.

Horse City
Switch to Axe build for one turn, then finish Preat and start another Preat if Darius is not coming at fish. If he is coming with multiple stacks, build spear one turn, then we can whip an axe and spear on consecutive turns as Darius arrives if needed.
Worker goes to 2 E of Horse if Darius is coming at Horse.

Iron City
Finish Spy, start another. Send chop into granary, then consider whipping at some point.
Worker improves deer after chop.

Espionage
Spy goes to Trojan, sits on Galley for 5 turns, steals a tech next turnset.
Infiltrate Saladin the turn we plan to steal. (He will start increasing his EP on us at that time.)
Great Spy in Saladin land heads for Zara
New Great Spy goes to new Saladin city by fish.

Stop points
Brennus stack appears
Unexpected tactical move by Darius
New Darius stack shows up
New DOW on us.
Weirdness

 

[shulec]

Notable:
All AI caps seem to have Marble. Therefore, Gilgamesh's is ours once we can trade for it.
MoM built in Uruk

Brennus has 4 workers asking for asylum in the Roman empire. Do we dare???

 

[Gumbolt]

Plan looks good. I looked at those 4 workers. Seems like suicide. Tempting if we were not fighting Darius. Maybe he might attack. I would leave those 3 units between cities. Small risk he could block them off following turn.

 

[elitetroops]

Plan looks good.

I wouldn't start any new wars now, even if 4 workers would be very tempting... Perhaps we could consider it if we get peace with Darius. Which reminds me, another stop point would be if he accepts a peace deal.

 

[yyeah]

Its hard to match this test to real game, i dont know how to do it to be honest.
I got something like this.
Made some moves maybe not in diplo but still overflow for PH is too big.

Edit
@ Shulec
@Fish city
W from Fish city worker is chooping forest... thats why i was bulding( chooping) barracks,
What you want to do with this choop?
Bulding Pret without barracks isnt great, not better to just choop this barracks then Pret and for example 2 pop whip Axe in to Pret ?
@Iron city
If you are sending choop to granary you are deleing our ability to steal techs. Becosue 1st spy will be later and 2nd 3th as well, thats a lot of turns when we cant steal anything.
And what i meen here that we cant steal any military techs witch we need now not after 30 turns.
In my recent test i had somekind of army around 500AD, when we can have some cats or something.
You are saying that 1100AD Currasiers are late but at what point we are ?
500AD Cats is waht we can get if we deley it, it will be 700AD compere it to 1100AD Cuirrasiers.

Its jsut doesnt make sense to me we are chooping whiping barracks, army and we are deleying Construcion.
Only Prets cant take out Darius cities he have too much culture def atm.

 

[Gumbolt]

I don't have a problem with switching to praet in Fish. We have 6 hammers in it. It only takes 13 or so more hammers to do a full 2 pop whip. I don't think Shulec plans to complete Praet without the barracks. I think he is waiting for S4.

It's tough on the spy situation. Delaying the granary will delay growth in the iron city. We will soon have 2 spies and a 3rd on the way. Our biggest issue here is we have 4 cities and we can't do everything.

We are at war with Darius who has close to 15 units near Rome now. We are also behind tech wise due to the Ai lush starts. The fact is this war has hit us for 6.

We can build Praets now. We can steal construction soon. 7-8 turns? Takes us close to 300ad. We are 15+ turns from any decent Ai city. This is really tough for us. Whatever we do we are a long way off any attack. Will Monarch level really slow down this AI??

In some ways Yyeah is right. 700ad for a stack. Then 900-1000ad for any attack?

Yet with our land are we really likely to out tech the Ai here?? Is our strategy right?

One thing that might speed up our army is more mines in Rome and more chops. Saly we just can't do that here. Of course as Yyeah suggested in past we can send out a smaller stack first. Most of Persians units are outside our cities so hopefully his cities are weakly defended? Hmmm.

 

[Gumbolt]

We could send a team of 2 workers ahead of our main stack. Would almost have 10-15 turn journey? Of course can we spare these workers?

 

[shulec]

Its hard to match this test to real game, i dont know how to do it to be honest.
I got something like this.
Made some moves maybe not in diplo but still overflow for PH is too big.

Edit
@ Shulec
@Fish city
W from Fish city worker is chooping forest... thats why i was bulding( chooping) barracks,
What you want to do with this choop?
Bulding Pret without barracks isnt great, not better to just choop this barracks then Pret and for example 2 pop whip Axe in to Pret ?
Good question. That's where I rely on the test game. I really want to 2 pop whip that barrack with overflow into the Preat, even better if I can do it with a chop!
@Iron city
If you are sending choop to granary you are delaying our ability to steal techs. Becosue 1st spy will be later and 2nd 3th as well, thats a lot of turns when we cant steal anything.
And what i meen here that we cant steal any military techs witch we need now not after 30 turns.
In my recent test i had somekind of army around 500AD, when we can have some cats or something.
You are saying that 1100AD Currasiers are late but at what point we are ?
500AD Cats is waht we can get if we deley it, it will be 700AD compere it to 1100AD Cuirrasiers.

Its jsut doesnt make sense to me we are chooping whiping barracks, army and we are deleying Construcion. I disagree. We need a lot of Preat and we can build those while waiting for construction. The best argument I can come up with supporting constructions ASAP is so we can build all the cats in Rome, so we can promote to accuracy. However, CRII Preatorians are pretty awesome too.
Only Prets cant take out Darius cities he have too much culture def atm.

Thanks for the test game. Now I can work through a few things.

I hope to play a few turns in a few hours.

Elite, how do you feel about the iron chop for Spies vs granary in Iron.

 

[shulec]

Screenshot dump for test game:

Spoiler :

 

[shulec]

This is the best I can get the test game. The hammers for the barracks are there, but six hammers are not permanently in the barracks.

Techs are off too.

 

[Gumbolt]

I would suggest Yyeah had probably tested the the iron city. However you look at it if we want construction sooner we use it as first tech to steal? Do we also wait for the full 5 turns to steal each tech? We will have 2 spies soon.

I am absolutely knackered today. Not really focused on anything today.

Looking at save.

30 hammers in spy. In 1 turns we can whip for 25 hammers. Plus 30 hammers from a chop. 30+25+2+1=58. So hopefully complete granary with the overflow from the whip. Not worked out the food overflow from the whip. We could put 5 hammers into granary too. So we whip from S3-S2.

The plus side to whipping in 2 turns is that we don't have the deer to use yet. We also have option to grow Iron city to size 3 and whip.

This gets the granary sooner but would delay the next spy. 4 turns granary. With option to whip a spy 2-3 turns later. The alternative is to let the chop and whip go to 2nd spy. Downside is this delays granary a long time. Hmmmm.

 

[yyeah]

Sry for this test game this should be better and man making test take more time then palying real game .
But i still miss 3 hammers in Rome dont know how rly, i add here test from 2 turns ealier if some1 can match it better.

Edit
Ok Shulec go for it.
Anti tsr took 1st ai city around 550AD another 1 around 625 or something, so we are not in bad spot.

 

[shulec]

I tested out to getting 2 spies, a granary, a library and Pop4 with two science specialist, and going for the 2nd spy before the granary didn't make much difference.

I can go 2 spies first.

 

[shulec]

I am going to beg right now to see if I have to change our plans.

 

[shulec]

The sooner we get construction, that can help our power rating and possibly help make peace or prevent Brennus DOW.

 

[yyeah]

xD ok Shulec play 1 turn iam going ot bed soon but i want to see what this idiot do with hes stack XDDDD.

 

[Gumbolt]

Yep try for teh begs. 50 is safe. 60 is a gamble? Closer to Ad so maybe larger begs could work?

We will have 2 spies. Is the 3rd more important than the granary?

Hard to read TSR graphs. Remember they will burn most cities. So that 550ad date could be misleading.

 

[shulec]

I am going to beg right now to see if I have to change our plans.

Hannibal denied.
Gilgamesh and Saladin give us 90 gold total.
We have enough to upgrade spear. I will try to play some turns in about 4 hours.

EDIT - Sorry yyeah, I have family time now.