[BTS] SGOTM 24 nostalgia

[nanoprince]

some notes for T0~T15
1. The Pyramid is no longer important at all because there are at least 2 AI in the continent. (persian has 0 spy point on us)
2. A fast alphabet should be profitable.
3. Great light house is an important choice.
4. Persian's destiny depends on how much AI we would meet. If AIs >=3, Persian should bu blushed out in Classics.(just after structure)
5. The north city of 3 fish is lack of hammer for the first boat. Maybe we can cut a tree out of the city for it, after Math(by Great Scientist)

 

[nanoprince]

here is a plan for test

1) 2 pops to build the 2nd settler
2) 2nd city sit in the northeast forest to the 2 corns.
3) 3rd city sit in south of 2nd city, in order to share a corn, and then build the scout boat here by slavery
4) 4th city is the Great lighthouse city in south of the capital.
5) approximately Alphabet+Math(by Great Scientist)+5cities （3G,3L in them）in T70
6) Great lighthouse would be built in maybe T85
7) Currency followed by Building structure and then decide weather we shall push Persian.

 

[sossos]

Here's the PPP(Pre Play Plan) for T15~T30

Spoiler PPP :

The settler will settle at 5E1N of capitol
The worker will go corn site to irrigate after 3 resources are improved: deer->deer->fur
The first warrior will scout the stone spot then go back to fog gaze the desert.
The second warrior will fog gaze the corn site then go to 3-fish spot after the 2nd city is founded.
The third warrior will go cattle site.

 

[sossos]

here is a plan for test

1) 2 pops to build the 2nd settler
2) 2nd city sit in the northeast forest to the 2 corns.
3) 3rd city sit in south of 2nd city, in order to share a corn, and then build the scout boat here by slavery
4) 4th city is the Great lighthouse city in south of the capital.
5) approximately Alphabet+Math(by Great Scientist)+5cities （3G,3L in them）in T70
6) Great lighthouse would be built in maybe T85
7) Currency followed by Construction and then decide weather we shall rush Persian.

Agree. 1) 2) have been included in the PPP above.

 

[nanoprince]

Nice plan!

2nd city sitting in the northeast forest to the 2 corns will cost 1 more maintaining gold，but will have better city positions.

Still I suggest that 2nd city sitting in the southwest forest to the 2 corns to be tested for comparison.

BTW, I agree with SOS that first Scientist may research alphabet instead of math. Due to the fast great-man privilege of phi leaders.

Here's the PPP(Pre Play Plan) for T15~T30

Spoiler PPP :

The settler will settle at 5E1N of capitol
The worker will go corn site to irrigate after 3 resources are improved: deer->deer->fur
The first warrior will scout the stone spot then go back to fog gaze the desert.
The second warrior will fog gaze the corn site then go to 3-fish spot after the 2nd city is founded.
The third warrior will go cattle site.

 

[sossos]

Test Save for T30 and T45

The first choice of the 2nd city is the SE spot of 2 corns, if there is ambush (such as continuous harassment of the two bears), the NE of 2 corns will be picked. The scouting warrior will scout the stone first then go north to explore the way there may be a new direction.

There're some errors in the previous PPP which will be corrected tomorrow.

 

[obeliskgolem]

Hello Team,

I've just tried another greedy strategy: build Pyramids + The Great Lighthouse.

In my test save, I have built Pyramids in Turn 83 and TGL in Turn 86, on the same while I have 5 cities + 1 settler + 4 workers. 13 trees were cut.
(tech order: hunting -> mining -> bronze working -> the wheel -> pottery -> mysticism -> masonry -> sailing -> writing -> alphabet (get animal husbandry from Darius))

To get both wonders, the development of some cities has been sacrificed so this might not be the best strategy. Anyway, it's an option that we may look into.

 

[sossos]

Hello Team,

I've just tried another greedy strategy: build Pyramids + The Great Lighthouse.

In my test save, I have built Pyramids in Turn 83 and TGL in Turn 86, on the same while I have 5 cities + 1 settler + 4 workers. 13 trees were cut.
(tech order: hunting -> mining -> bronze working -> the wheel -> pottery -> mysticism -> sailing -> masonry -> writing -> alphabet (get animal husbandry from Darius))

To get both wonders, the development of some cities has been sacrificed so this might not be the best strategy. Anyway, it's an option that we may look into.

Great, if we settled on stone city, maybe we could have chopped less trees.

 

[nanoprince]

According to our recent discussion，here let's list some general points.

1) The domination point will be much earlier than our first plan due to the possibility of classical or medieval

military expansion. Let's say it 195T at domination victory.

2) The Teching speed will be accelerated remarkably by the meeted AIs for both tech-trading and foreign trade routes.

Let's say it 155T at scientific methods and 185-195T at medicine.

3) We will have less time for forest extension. May be only 30 turns. So we must control the cut-down number limit.

Let's say it below 10.

4）A land scout and a sea scout are both needed for exploring. More and earlier meeting with AIs are first-place

consideration, which will be powerful boost to development，as well as important events for strategic adjustment.

5) The Great lighthouse is very much needed. If we have the G.L.H., we may make a plan of settling 12+ cities. Other

wise less than 10 will be rational.

6) Pyramid may be hammered up in capital, after we have link to stone. Don't do too much tree-cutting for the Pyramid,

because it is no longer critical. 2gold-1hammer compensation will be also acceptable indeed.

7）If we can meet more than 3 AIs in T100，we may start war against Persia @ T110, and finish the war in at most 15

truns.

8) We should re-evaluate the necessity of fast-astronomy，according to the further exploring results.

 

[sossos]

I played till T27 today. 3 findings:
1. Persia had 4 pop and founded the 2nd city at T24. Amazing! I think he's the best in all AIs.
2. There's a fish at 2S of stone. Good spot.
3. One tree grows at SE of pig. Good news.
I will play the next 3 turns once the team agree upon where we should found the 2nd city. NE of 2 corns is still the best spot as of now.
The test save is saved.

 

[nanoprince]

All good news!

I suppose that Persian capital should be fascinatingly delicious

I played till T27 today. 3 findings:
1. Persia had 4 pop and founded the 2nd city at T24. Amazing! I think he's the best in all AIs.
2. There's a fish at 2S of stone. Good spot.
3. One tree grows at SE of pig. Good news.
I will play the next 3 turns once the team agree upon where we should found the 2nd city. NE of 2 corns is still the best spot as of now.
The test save is saved.

 

[nanoprince]

Here list some points associated from SOS's discoveries.

1) C5 sitting to the west of the cow, C6 sitting on the stone, C7 is the 3-fish city.

2) Hammer up the pyramid steadily in the capitaly, and don't waste to many trees on it.

3) If we have G.L.H, build 2 cities east and west to the pig. If not ,only 1 city for the pig.

4) We may choose C9/C10 or C10/C11 on the west and north islands.

5) If we build up the G.L.H,let's burst the army after C9, meanwhile settle C10~C12（or more）.

6) Finish code of law just before the start of Persian war. Have 6 courts along with the fall of Persian capital, and build the Forbidden Palace there.

7) Let's have 15+ cities at 115T, including Persian capital.

Will this be an OK plan?

All good news!

I suppose that Persian capital should be fascinatingly delicious

 

[sossos]

Hi team,

I've played till T30. Here's the game log. Nothing special happened in these 3 turns. I built a scout after 3 warriors, which is a little bit different from the original plan.

Spoiler log :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 3400 BC to 2800 BC:


Turn 25, 3000 BC: Barbarian's Wolf (1.00) vs Sitting Bull's Warrior 1 (Cahokia) (4.10)
Turn 25, 3000 BC: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 25, 3000 BC: (Animal Combat: +10%)
Turn 25, 3000 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 25, 3000 BC: (Fortify: +20%)
Turn 25, 3000 BC: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 25, 3000 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 37 (63/100HP)
Turn 25, 3000 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 37 (26/100HP)
Turn 25, 3000 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 37 (0/100HP)
Turn 25, 3000 BC: Sitting Bull's Warrior 1 (Cahokia) has defeated Barbarian's Wolf!

Turn 26, 2960 BC: You have trained a Settler in Cahokia. Work has now begun on a Warrior.

Turn 29, 2840 BC: Cahokia will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 29, 2840 BC: You have discovered Bronze Working!

Turn 30, 2800 BC: Cahokia has grown to size 3.
Turn 30, 2800 BC: Poverty Point has been founded.
Turn 30, 2800 BC: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 30, 2800 BC: Sitting Bull adopts Slavery!

 

[obeliskgolem]

Hello Team,

I've played through until T45 according to our discussion. Another city was settled to the south of capitol. The session log is attached.

The situation is becoming more and more complex. I suggest that next time we play slowly and don't play 15 turns at once.

Spoiler log :

Turn 30, 2800 BC: Poverty Point has been founded.
Turn 30, 2800 BC: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 30, 2800 BC: Sitting Bull adopts Slavery!
Turn 30, 2800 BC: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.

Turn 33, 2680 BC: Darius I adopts Slavery!

Turn 37, 2520 BC: You have discovered Mysticism!

Turn 39, 2440 BC: Judaism has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 40, 2400 BC: Mound City has been founded.

Turn 42, 2320 BC: Sitting Bull's Warrior (2.00) vs Barbarian's Warrior (1.36)
Turn 42, 2320 BC: Combat Odds: 94.8%
Turn 42, 2320 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 42, 2320 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 21 (41/100HP)
Turn 42, 2320 BC: Sitting Bull's Warrior is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 42, 2320 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 21 (20/100HP)
Turn 42, 2320 BC: Sitting Bull's Warrior is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 42, 2320 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 42, 2320 BC: Sitting Bull's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

Turn 43, 2280 BC: Poverty Point has grown to size 4.
Turn 43, 2280 BC: Poverty Point has become unhappy.

Turn 44, 2240 BC: Poverty Point has become happy.
Turn 44, 2240 BC: Mound City will grow to size 2 on the next turn.
Turn 44, 2240 BC: Darius I has founded Susa in a distant land.

Turn 45, 2200 BC: Cahokia can hurry Worker for 1⇴ with 10ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 12 turns.
Turn 45, 2200 BC: Mound City has grown to size 2.
Turn 45, 2200 BC: Mound City can hurry Work Boat for 1⇴ with 13ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns

 

[sossos]

@Flagger

I just watched the video you played the test game from T45 to T60. Here are some of the improvements we can make to get pottery/writing 1 turn earlier, 5 pop in Capitol at T60 instead of 4, and 9 more gold in our pocket.

Spoiler :

1. At T49, the production in the 2nd city PP (Poverty Point) can be switched to Dog Soldier and let Capitol do the wonder. We can get 4 more gold this way.

2. As long as you have money to support 100% research, do it. You never know when we can get the failed gold, but we can be always prepared for earlier pottery or writing.

In this way, we can get pottery at T53 and get granary completed 1 turn earlier(T55) with food bank 11/26, better than T56 and 19/26 in the video. This is why we can have one more pop at T60。

3. We can switch to 1f2c tile at T50 instead of T51, this can help the granary of the city PP completed at 12/24. This can also give us 2 more gold.

4. At T52, 2 workers can road the forest to connect the capitol and the city PP. We have no chance to use the fur before T60. This can give us 3 more gold.

5. Don’t forget the warrior at the city PP, it will decay. We’d better build it at T57 when we can support 9 units.

6. Switch to barracks if we don't need the dog soldier to come out until we can support them

7. The scout can station at 3N3W of the warrior. Persia's border will expand at T50 to reduce the possible spawning spot to only 1, so it's better to fog gaze our own border

I may have more ideas when I watched more closely, but please check these tips first.

 

[flager]

played till T60. here's the game log:

Spoiler Log :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1760 BC to 1600 BC:

Turn 56, 1760 BC: The borders of Mound City have expanded!

Turn 58, 1680 BC: Cahokia has grown to size 4.
Turn 58, 1680 BC: Cahokia can hurry Dog Soldier for 1⇴ with 31ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 16 turns.
Turn 58, 1680 BC: Poverty Point has grown to size 3.
Turn 58, 1680 BC: Poverty Point can hurry Dog Soldier for 1⇴ with 6ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 19 turns.
Turn 58, 1680 BC: Poverty Point will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 58, 1680 BC: The Oracle has been built in a far away land!

Turn 59, 1640 BC: Cahokia can hurry Dog Soldier for 1⇴ with 34ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 15 turns.
Turn 59, 1640 BC: Poverty Point has grown to size 4.
Turn 59, 1640 BC: Cahokia will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 59, 1640 BC: Mound City will grow to size 2 on the next turn.
Turn 59, 1640 BC: You have discovered Writing!
Turn 59, 1640 BC: The Great Wall has been built in a far away land!

Turn 60, 1600 BC: Cahokia has grown to size 5.
Turn 60, 1600 BC: Mound City has grown to size 2.
Turn 60, 1600 BC: Mound City can hurry Work Boat for 1⇴ with 29ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 15 turns.
Turn 60, 1600 BC: Will Sign Open Borders: Darius I
Turn 60, 1600 BC: Poverty Point will grow to size 5 on the next turn.

later I will upload the viedos to youtube

 

[sossos]

@flager

Nice job. Interesting discussion on how to squeeze 1 turn for writing and library. Would you post the Youtube link for T45~T55?

Spoiler video :

 

[sossos]

@nanoprince

I've posted the video URL of playing T61~T75 below. Nice job and good luck to have two Nano trees grown.

Spoiler T61~T75 video :

http://www.bilibili.com/video/av9001581/

 

[sossos]

@Team

I'm gonna plan as below per Beijing Time Zone for my round.

By 8 am Mar 8, I will summarize what we discussed and list all of the issues to be further discussed
By 8 am Mar 9, I will collect your inputs and work out a detail PPP.
At 10 am Mar 10 (Fri), I will collect more inputs upon PPP and play test game online
At 9 pm Mar 11 (Sat), I will play the first half of the real game (T76~T84) online
At 9 pm Mar 12 (Sun), I will play the second half of the real game (T85~T90) online

 

[sossos]

First I'd like to summarize what we discussed:

1. For the plan of the next 30~50 turns, it is very likely that we are gonna maximize the strength of our leader(Philosophical) and the resource we have (stone)
(1) Research Currency and Code of laws, get the 2nd Great Scientist and finish The Pyramids
(2) Start a golden age and switch to Cast system, Representation and Confucianism
(3) Get the 3rd Great Scientist, research Civil Service and switch to Bureaucracy, Pacifism
(4) Beeline Education with 2 more Great Scientists.
(5) Complete University of Sankore and Oxford University

2. Basically we are gonna continue to explore toward Northeast

3. We need to settle the potential 2 islands to our West and North, so we need a galley ASAP at our 3rd or 4th city.

4. We need to prioritize The Pyramids at Capitol.

Then I will list some of my Q&As.

Question 1: How to spread the religion if we don't have Organized Religion?
My preference: We need to get Monotheism before our golden age ends.

Question 2: Is it still possible to get into war without Slavery in the next 50 turns?
My preference: I doubt we have any chance to use Slavery if we beeline Education. We are not Spiritual. The AIs are also too far to attack

Question 3: When to settle the pig city?
My preference: It should be later than the island cities, but earlier than the attack time.

Question 4: When to attack the barbarian city?
My preference: If we have too many hammers, we can put some on Dog soldiers. Use warrior to lure those garrison out of their city and hit the final strike with our Unique Units.

Question 5: Can we not research? We can put our overflow hammers for failed gold this way to benefit from the stone.
My preference: If possible, use it. For example, when the capitol is not building the Pyramids, we can plan a maximum overflow of other cities into the Pyramids. In this way, we'll have more gold to boost our economy.

Question 6: After The Pyramids, we may need to put our overflow hammers to any wonders that we are gonna complete. How about completing Moai at one of our island city? However, we have to remain at Slavery for this strategy.
My preference: I don't think it's possible in the next 50 turns. It requires Slavery.

Question 7: Shall we remove the jungle of pigs, chop 4 trees and mine 4 more green hills?
My preference is based on the calculation below:
1. We have 43 forests/jungles at our initial zone, 38 forests more on the rest continents and 9 forests on the Germany continent.
2. The odds to grow forest is now 4.2% and 33.6% with Reserves. Based on this estimate, 4 more trees may grow during T76~T175 and 1 tree may grow every 3 turns during T175~T190. We are gonna have 9 more trees if we don't chop any more. (Let's target our finish date at T190, aggressive but this is the way I play)
3. If we do the above, the odds can be almost unchanged if we chop the tree 1W of the capitol. It's 4% and 32%. Therefore, finally we'll still have 48 reserves at our initial zone.
Therefore I'm green to chop more and mine more to expedite the Pyramids.

Question 8: If there's no horse/iron/copper, how can we start our war after we have Astronomy?
My preference: It is not a big problem since we are protective and our unique building can support stronger ranged units. We can attack with Longbowman or Musketman. Therefore, we can start the war after we have Astronomy. It is more profitable in my opinion.

Question 9: What if we can borrow horse from either Darius or Stalin?
My preference: If this is the case, I think we can steal one or two Darius cities and chop some catapults there to conquer him. No rush. Just to use the production that has no good investments.

Question 10: Do we need to explore toward west?
My preference: If possible, do it. We may have faster work boat and galley either for connecting resources just in time or for classic war.

Question 11: How about the music line? Should we go for it?
My preference: We may need it if the second golden age is needed to switch our civics. We can decide later about the timing.

Question 12: Is the capitol good enough for Oxford University?
My preference: If we can take the capitol of Persia, that should be better. This may make me think more about a galley chain to transport our units.

Question 13: Do we need to keep to possibility of Religious Victory?
My preference: We can keep an eye on it. Somehow we may get religious victory in the progress of conquering the world. Vote, switch to environmentalism and influence civics at the same turn.

Question 14: Shall we adopt Cast System or Slavery when we exit the golden age?
My preference: Slavery. We have 69 food surplus with 10 cities. With library, we can already spend 40 food surplus in specialist. The rest 29 can be used for war. On the other hand, there's no good investments in the Astronomy line, so we'd better put our food else where, yes on Persia and Russia, for their flood plain, forest, marble etc.