Sirian's Map Info Reference

[Grotius]

If you play the Tilted Axis map type (it's under Custom game option with the "advanced" maps) and leave the Landmass Size set to random, you will get anything from massive continents to tiny islands. Tilted Axis simulates a world with it's planetary rotational axis tilted over on to its side (so cold runs east to west and the equator runs north to south!) but the climate and other features are pretty close to normal.

That's close to what I want, yes. Will this option include a possible Pangaea? Part of the fun for me is not knowing in advance whether I'll need to research Sailing at all. Also, if I use the custom options, don't I have to pick the number of AI Civs manually, which again removes some randomness?

What I really want is simply for the computer, not me, to make the first choice in the "Play Now" menu -- without telling me what was chosen. In other words, add a radio button to that first menu that says "Random Map Type." Then when I click "next," you secretly choose a map type for me, and meld that with whatever remaining parameters I choose on Sea Level, Climate, and Map Size. I would think that wouldn't require all that much programming, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

As you say, there's tons of fabulous Civ goodness here anyway. But I do miss that sense of being completely in the dark about where I'm starting.

 

[Sirian]

Yes it can give you a pangaea. Try it.

 

[LoneOne]

"Modders can script new map types and do pretty much anything with them, including maps that would make Terra look like a shrimp. Of course, you might need to network a few mainframes to play an absurdly gargantuan map, but you can try it. If you can live with the performance level you get, then have at it!"

That really peaks my interest. I'm not sure if you've ever read any Orson Scott Card (I hear he can be a real Civ addict if he lets himself), but in one of his books - The Worthing Saga (actually a combination of several "books"), there is a Civ type game that people are playing that more or less mimics controlling a country in history to see if you can do better job than say...Alexander the Great did (part of me wonders if he got this idea from...Civ?). Anyway, if map size technically isn't an issue (assuming processing power isn't an issue), that almost sounds like it could be possible to use Civ IV as a MMO - if you could find a company willing to pony up the processing power, and if there was some way to mod in more Civs and that combined with people being able to "hotseat" in and out of the multiplayer games...Oh the possibilities!
Although I'm sure Civ Anon commercials could suddenly become true "I said I didn't get up..." & "I thought I was able to handle the power..."

 

[XF Clohvn]

I had the continents one generate the same terrain (different resource locations) two games in a row earlier I wonder what the odds of that are

 

[apatheist]

I'm not sure if you've ever read any Orson Scott Card (I hear he can be a real Civ addict if he lets himself), but in one of his books - The Worthing Saga (actually a combination of several "books"), there is a Civ type game that people are playing that more or less mimics controlling a country in history to see if you can do better job than say...Alexander the Great did

I was thinking of Azad in Iain M. Banks's "Player of Games." OSC had one good book. Banks has... well, a lot.

 

[XF Clohvn]

And I just got that same map again Kind of takes the fun out of a game when you've played the map twice already.

 

[Sirian]

And I just got that same map again Kind of takes the fun out of a game when you've played the map twice already.

I've not seen anything like that, but I'll look in to it.

 

[Raskal]

I have not noticed starting out on the same maps; I did find that my first 2 games i was stationed next to the same 2 civs, America(me) with Spanish, and Malinese on one continent. This was a standard 7 civs continent map and the map generator made 3 continents. I'm hoping the same civs don't get paired up, hopefully just coincidence.

On another note, is there a reason Whale resources are generated very seldom? For example, I have played quite a few Pangaea maps and I have not seen ANY whale. The only maps I have seen whale are on Continent maps with a total of maybe 2-3 in the whole world(which is fine I guess). But a huge Pangae map should have a few too. I'm assuming every map generated should come with at least one of every resource?

Oh and while I was testing the whale thing I noticed a few instances where a Pangaea map generated 2-3 small continents away from the main land(seperated by a few ocean squares). This happened twice.

 

[Sirian]

I'm assuming every map generated should come with at least one of every resource?

Not necessarily. Quantities of resources are affected by the number of plots with terrain that could support them.

Pangaeas have less coastal and near-land ocean than any other oceanic map type, so they will tend to have less sea-based resources, and the areas where they would appear may get "hogged up" by other resources types, too. Plus, yes, they are fairly rare in general, sort of like Stone and Marble.


- Sirian

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Question on the team maps, is it possible to have a single player team? (create teams of AIs and have yourself on one of those teams)

 

[Raskal]

Yes, I got the same map with the same rivals too! Even all the resources were the same. It wasn't 2 in a row though. It is just a replicate of the first game I played on Wednesday. Standard Continents everything default 7 rivals.

 

[Sirian]

Question on the team maps, is it possible to have a single player team? (create teams of AIs and have yourself on one of those teams)

Yes. You have to set that up under Custom games and fiddle with the team numbers.

 

[tofof]

I've seen this mentioned in a couple threads and have run into it and restarted several games (mostly pangea) in frustration as well - what's up with the desert tiles?

They seem to appear too frequently, scattered, and oddly positioned. I've seen desert next to jungle (shouldn't savannah/plains be between?). In one map, on standard size, there was desert only 2 tiles from snow/tundra. For example, I didn't realize the lower half of the 'teaser-fantasy' image you provided was supposed to be 'oddball climate' until I read the text file. The placements of deserts seemed just like a real game to me, and that's not good.

Is this a real issue? Is it just a result of noticing the abberations in a random set? Is there any way to control terrain generation rules in the XML or Python files?

 

[Sirian]

Is there any way to control terrain generation rules in the XML or Python files?

You can mod terrain generation for most of the map scripts by modding one Python file:

CvMapGeneratorUtil.py

A few map scripts have proprietary classes that will not be affected.


I recommend either saving a backup copy of the original file, or doing a "mod" (which won't touch your core game files).

If you want larger patches of terrain, turn down the Grain level in the terrain generator class. Warning: this will affect more than just the deserts. You will also get larger patches of grassland and plains (and may have numerous cities with all the plots of one type -- which I generally found to be boring, even if in some cases it is "more realistic").

You could theoretically get large deserts and still maintain a mix of smaller patches of grassland and plains, but you would have to run multiple fractal layers at different grains, in a customized process. You can also expect some civs to be hosed with very poor start locations, if they start on the edge of a large Sahara-like desert.

Confused yet? Don't be. If you can program, you can modify the maps or create new ones. There are plenty of comments and examples in the map script files. Also be sure to look at the entry point file for maps (under Assets\Python). Python is an easy language to learn if you have programming experience.

I'm not going to be able to answer your questions from here, though. Some of the guys in the modding community may be able to provide you further assitance. Good luck!


- Sirian

 

[Yps]

Hello Sirian,

regarding the problem with the map generator we are experiencing the same problem here in Germany. The last games I had with continents have been started on the same maps of whom you can find screenshots here on civfanatics.

This problem is quite bothering. Is there anything we can do to fix this bug? Do we have to change the random seed in the .ini-file each time we start a new game?

 

[Rik Meleet]

Sirian.... I think you might want to look here ...

 

[Zenith Omega 3]

I like the Terran maps the most. However, one thing I have noticed that is really poor is the fact that the game cannot seem to generate a map with topography more like Earth. What I mean is: Jungle, Desert, Grassland, Plains are seemingly just "tossed" onto the map. There is no structure to where they are placed as was in Civ 3. Have you been able to figure a way around this, other than spending large quantities of time in the Map Editor?

 

[Zenith Omega 3]

In Civ 3, there was an option to select, determining how old the world was. For instance, a 3-million year-old planet would yield a map with different types of topography just "tossed" throughout the map; whereas the 5 million year-old selection would yield a map with terrain/topography more like Earth.
In Civ 4, any map I create seems to generate desert, plains, grass, forest..etc..seemingly "tossed" throughout the world. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to the layout of the different topographies.
Has anyone noticed this? Has anyone found a way around this? I have always enjoyed playing on maps much like Earth and NOT having this option is a negative for me.
All in all, though, I am pleased with the game.

Regards,

Zenith Omega 3

 

[Zenith Omega 3]

I cannot seem to find a way around this issue..

 

[Sirian]

Jungle, Desert, Grassland, Plains are seemingly just "tossed" onto the map. There is no structure to where they are placed as was in Civ 3.

The majority of the maps all use the same terrain generator, and it is essentially unchanged from Civ3.

There's a strip of pure grassland across the equator, thick with jungle.

There is a strip of pure ice at each pole, and a strip of pure tundra between the ice and the temperate zone.

There is a northern and a southern temperate zone, and each is set to a mix of grass, desert, and plains. The ONLY change from Civ3 is that the patches of grass, desert, and plains are smaller and more intermixed. You can make them larger again, to make the game "more realistic", but-- (Hey, didn't I just post on this subject a couple of posts above? I'm pretty sure I did) --it will lead to some civs being put in nasty desert regions and having really craptastic lands to play in, while others will have cities with 20 grassland apiece, and one city to the next being essentially identical in terrain.

I made the call to reduce the terrain patches in size, to better balance the game. In general, where there was a choice to make between "better gameplay, less realism" or "worse gameplay, more realism" I chose the former with no regrets.

You can have the "realistic" maps you want, and without all that much work -- though you will have to modify things, or wait for someone else to do it. See my previous post on the topic, above.

Take a good long look at the Earth map, though. There is a massive desert stretching from the western Sahara all the way through the heart of Asia. The entire eastern half of the USA is pure grassland. Sometimes realistic can be boring! Civ4 is moddable so that you can have what you want, though, and I hope that you get it. Fun is where you find it! I'm proud (in this instance) to have sacrificed a little realism for a lot of gameplay, for the casual user, but also proud that those who want something else can get it, with a little elbow grease applied.

Good luck with your pursuit.


- Sirian