Something seems a bit overpowered here

[Cel]

I'm playing a game as the Arabs. I'm fighting the Mayans.

I took out one of his outlying cities without much trouble at all. However, when I got to his capital (despite having killed almost all his troops), I cannot take it.

I can damage the city, but my problem is that each turn, he's taking out one of my units. I have Trebuchets, Longswordsmen, and a couple of Crossbowmen. He can kill one of the Trebuchets each turn. If I dare use a Longswordsman to attack, he can then wipe it out immediately after. All he has nearby is the city, one Composite Bowman, and a Galleas stationed inside the city.

The city has quite a lot of defence (40 - it's on a hill and has walls at size 24), so I can't take it out quickly enough to deal with the unit loss.

Anyone else noticed anything like this? It seems especially strange as it really feels at odds with the rest of my combat experience in G&K so far, where units last much longer and can take a few hits.

 

[Gamewizard]

40 defense vs the army you posted is very strong, and that combined with the bowman and galleas' attack should easily wipe out 1 unit per turn. I am in a similar situation vs Korea. His capital has a defense over 40 and he has atleast ten turtle ships and a handful of hwachas. I decided to beeline Artillery, I shall see how well he can handle those.

 

[Babri]

Send some horsemen to pillage all his improvements. That would bring his defences down (due to decrease in pop). And then try again after some time with cannons. Right now some cities become a real headache & conquering them nigh impossible. Cover promos are highly advisable in G&K.

 

[CYZ]

It seems everybody agrees big cities with walls/hills etc. are very powerfull.

It does seem like a good strategy to pillage the heck outof all their food tiles as Babri said, and keep pillaging them so the pop really goes down. Then since it's a coastal city, you should probably bring both ranged and melee ships as well so you can hit them from land and sea at the same time.

 

[tf21]

I experienced something similar. After wining a scientific victory I restarted the game at an earlier point and went warmoner. I encountered a city on a hill that was defended my a land unit and had a warship inside of it. In the early periods that is going to be a very difficult if not impossible situation to deal with-something which I agree and don't necessarly want see changed. Assaulting a fortified city uphill that was defended and supported by naval unit was doable, but also carried a high risk of failure. Unit firiring from elevated positions usually do greater damage. Some elevated cities well situated may be impregnable in the early periods.

If you could somehow get a ship in to neutralized the naval unit inside the city it may help.

Once you reach the modern age that changes. Airpower and artillery changes the equation. It can still get bloody, but what once appeared impossible becomes manageable.

Off topic-I also fired off nukes when I went warmonger. Pretty awesome, but I think the range should be more than 12 hexes or u should be able to build some than have greater reach. I could forsee a mod like the game Defcon....

 

[bayes]

Remember that siege like the trebuchet is now alot stronger vs cities. Spam out some more of those ( like 5 total ) and see his city just melt.
The most important thing here is to move everything in shooting range at the same time, so I doesnt have the time to kill them 1 by 1.

 

[stroypa]

Yh I've noticed this as well, I've had to abandon a few of my attempts to take cities. But now you don't need iron for trebs or cats so this does help to negate the increased city strength a little bit. Basically now you can't be gung-ho anymore, you have to plan it more carefully and it takes more effort. Feels a bit more rewarding when you do take a big well defended city though.

 

[PhilBowles]

I'm playing a game as the Arabs. I'm fighting the Mayans.

I took out one of his outlying cities without much trouble at all. However, when I got to his capital (despite having killed almost all his troops), I cannot take it.

I can damage the city, but my problem is that each turn, he's taking out one of my units. I have Trebuchets, Longswordsmen, and a couple of Crossbowmen. He can kill one of the Trebuchets each turn. If I dare use a Longswordsman to attack, he can then wipe it out immediately after. All he has nearby is the city, one Composite Bowman, and a Galleas stationed inside the city.

The city has quite a lot of defence (40 - it's on a hill and has walls at size 24), so I can't take it out quickly enough to deal with the unit loss.

Anyone else noticed anything like this? It seems especially strange as it really feels at odds with the rest of my combat experience in G&K so far, where units last much longer and can take a few hits.

Yes, I spent half the early game trying to take Attila's Court - although it was surrounded by forest, which undoubtedly helped. In my new game, I don't even need siege units to do serious damage to a non-capital Hunnic city (also defended by horse archers), and haven't lost a unit. It's welcome that the AI is better at defence, however I feel there's something wrong if you're at a stage where you've wiped out the AI's army, it's so soundly beaten that it has no prospect of recovering, and yet you still can't take the city no matter what. It should be harder for the AI to lose, not harder to eradicate an AI that's comprehensively lost.

 

[Muggsy]

Since the expansion, I've had to put a lot more planning into my city raids; the only exception being my classical age domination I did with the Huns, but those battering rams are nasty... Anyways, back to the point -- I feel like I need to develop a game plan for each city that even looks like it could be well defended or I will get crushed. I always take an assessment of the forests, the hills, and possible firing positions, enemy troop formations, resources, etc.. before I move my troops in sync to surround the city. Having some ships to support/draw fire helps too!

As an example, I had an earlier game where I was just at the end of being able to use pikes/trebs/knights to take a city and I actually had to sacrifice a ship and lvl 1 treb unit to draw enemy fire so I could get in position. Sending the units in early and damaged seems to me the AI will target lower hp units as a priority but that could just be a coincidence for my example.

While it's not directly related to the siege, having a few fast pillaging units pays off big time; on more than one occasion was I able to crush an enemy counter attack because they had a lack of iron for their long swordsmen.

 

[Wulf38]

Ranged units have always been pretty overpowered in Civ 5, especially when they sit inside cities, where they can do full damage without taking any damage in return. It's especially silly that a ranged ship can sit inside a city and be impervious to damage, while wiping out any land units that approach.

 

[Lyoncet]

I think if they reworked it so ships in port couldn't bombard, it would make a huge difference. As it is, coastal cities are much more difficult to take since 1) siege vs. units got nerfed so hard, 2) cities get so much more HP, and 3) melee vs. cities got nerfed to hell. So being able to stack a ship and a ranged unit behind those enormous defenses is just too good.

 

[RealHuhn]

When his city already has 40 strength and 24 population, it's a pretty good sign that your tech speed was too low.

You could easily have cannons by that point which make short work of a city like this.

It's probably your own fault and it doesn't mean that cities are OP.

 

[Glassmage]

I tried fighting Persia on Archipelago and he only need 1 catapult in his capital against my 7 triremes and 7 Maori swordsmen + 2 great generals and 1 great admiral. >_> I think I will take you guys advice and build more siege units.

 

[Morningcalm]

Why is it that barbarians, but never the AI, pillage improvements?

 

[GoodSarmatian]

40 defense vs the army you posted is very strong, and that combined with the bowman and galleas' attack should easily wipe out 1 unit per turn. I am in a similar situation vs Korea. His capital has a defense over 40 and he has atleast ten turtle ships and a handful of hwachas. I decided to beeline Artillery, I shall see how well he can handle those.

Ten turtle ships ? I suppose this is a coastal city ?
I found that Frigates are pretty good for softening up cities. If they have the range promotions they can bombard from a safe 3 hexes away.
You just have to take care of the turtle ships first...

 

[Buccaneer]

Very pleased that they have made cities noticeably harder to take.

 

[MadDjinn]

Very pleased that they have made cities noticeably harder to take.

yeah... in one game I'm like: wow Polynesia is wonder spamming!!! (15 wonders/31 built - almost all in his capital).

So I'm like: send in the fleet!!!! then realized that 25 attack vs. 101 defense gets you 8-9 damage/shot. The city effectively healed enough of it/turn that it didn't do anything useful.

Battleships on the other hand - BOOM!

 

[Kabloosh]

If his capital is on the coast get some ranged ships out for a surround. It will help. Also come to the realization you are going to lose something on the assault so try to plan which one it is. For example if he only targets your siege units. Put the ones you want to be alive on hills/forests and put the others in the plains as bait.
Make sure to bring a lot of other units. 2-3 melee units just to take the city and a bunch of ranged. 4-6 crossbowmen are nice and will steadily eat away at their defenses. Hell if they can survive 1 turn taking hits. You can rotate these units out prior to the main assault.
The most important thing would be the surround. If you can get as many units as possible attacking the city will fall fast.
If all else fails I suppose its time to wait for better tech.

I think the difficulty in jacking cities has made it increasingly harder for the AI to go "runaway" until the later part of the game and that only applies when they are attacking far less teched opponents since they tend to like to foolishly suicide their units.

 

[dexters]

yeah... in one game I'm like: wow Polynesia is wonder spamming!!! (15 wonders/31 built - almost all in his capital).

So I'm like: send in the fleet!!!! then realized that 25 attack vs. 101 defense gets you 8-9 damage/shot. The city effectively healed enough of it/turn that it didn't do anything useful.

Battleships on the other hand - BOOM!

I noticed Battleships got majorly upgraded.

Do you think late game cities are too easy to knock down? I was playing around with Battleships yesterday and could blitz through small coastal cities in 1 turn with 1 ranged attack and a destroyer to finish the job. Granted this AI has been at constant war with one of his neighbours for ages and did not appear to have a navy.

Was this as intended How can the AI protect from this?

 

[MadDjinn]

I noticed Battleships got majorly upgraded.

Do you think late game cities are too easy to knock down? I was playing around with Battleships yesterday and could blitz through small coastal cities in 1 turn with 1 ranged attack and a destroyer to finish the job. Granted this AI has been at constant war with one of his neighbours for ages and did not appear to have a navy.

Was this as intended How can the AI protect from this?

air units come earlier. Subs come earlier (give or take and Destroyers come really late).

So it's possible to defend against BShips. But they needed the boost. I don't think that it was planned for 15 Bships to exist in one fleet though..

But sitting back and not having a military is not an option for Industrial+ era wars.

Though, cheap little cities don't count. Those are easily replaceable. It's the big capitals and such that require protection/balance.