Songhai SG

[vadalaz]

Time for another succession game, this time @rickyvaughn and I will be playing as Askia on a Deity, Tilted Axis (Pangaea), Epic, Standard sized map. Here's a screenshot of the starting location:

We've agreed to not use bribes or steal workers this game. The plan is to combine Honor and Piety policy trees since they both have synergy with Songhai's unique bonuses. I'd also like to keep track of how much gold and culture we make by killing barbs and clearing their camps.

If anyone else wants to join, feel free to jump in. Lurker comments are also welcome.

***

@rickyvaughn wanna play the first session again? I think we can do 20-turn sessions until at least turn 120 since this is on Epic. I disabled Scrambled map packs, so the file should be good this time.

 

[rickyvaughn]

Sure, settle in place to keep food close or do you want the mtn? Don’t think the warrior is going to reveal much, but move him to hill SW and reevaluate if needed.

Edit: Moved the warrior. Can take the mountain and grab an extra wet tundra hill and sheep or leave the lake hill for a possible city.

 

[vadalaz]

I think we should stay close to the Salt

 

[rickyvaughn]

t0: Move Warr. Settle in place. Start 7t Scout. Start Pottery.

t1: What a roll for a Piety game. Find Kailish 6 tiles SE of cap.

t2:

t3:

t4: 1st to find Sofia (Incense, Neutral, Kris Sword) E of Kailish. Pledge. River hill adjacent to Kailish able to be settled.

t5:

t6: 1st to find Melbourne (Cocoa/Jewelry, Hostile) SW of Kailish. Pledge.

t7: Melbourne is coastal to S. Scout to Monument.

t8: Warr found 1st ruin. Was starting to think you had turned them off.

t9: Warr upgrade ruin. 1st to find Riga (Dyes, Irrational) NE of cap. Pledge. Surrounded by CSs and mtns to E.

t10:

t11: Since we're Songhai, didn't figure it would be bad to purchase (75g) 1 of the Salts at this point. No other 2 food tile in range.

t12: Tundra faith goes.

t13: 2nd ruin was tech (Archery). Good luck there.

t14: See Mayan borders E of mtn range. Will have to take him out if we want to do much with our religion. Probably wait til he builds Hagia and Gr Mosque. Pottery to AH. Figured w/ no steals, wouldn't need Mining just yet.

t15: We meet Pacal. 1st to find Almaty (Incense, Neutral, Mohawk). Pledge.

t16: Monument to Archer. Thought about another Scout since Pangaea, but I'm greedy. Lots of ice to our N & NE.

t17: 3rd ruin gold (55g).

t18: 4th ruin barb. 1 7 tiles S of Palenque. 1 5 tiles SE of Gao.

t19:

t20: Scout needs to grab that ruin. Figured we should move our Spear over E of the mtns to start clearing those camps before Pacal builds his Warr party to kill them. In addition to the 2 from ruin, there is one between Riga and Palenque on the E side of the mtn, there is one where our Spear is N of cap in ice, and there is one coastal SW of cap (5 total known). Figure we hit pop 3 and grab Kailish. Maybe build a worker (or buy 1 if we get some of that sweet camp gold) while hitting pop 4 and grab wine river spot towards Pacal and coastal Cotton SW. Still only 1 pantheon gone so far, although, Pacal doesn't have one yet. Good luck on your turns.

Edit: Forgot to mention that it looks like there is land to the W/NW of Almaty. I was exploring over there with our Spear, so I didn't want to get too far, but just FYI.

 

[vadalaz]

T20: The ruin gives us Mining. Spearman will unfog some of the polar region W/NW of Almaty. I want the region unfogged so that we'll get barb notifications from Honor.
T21: -
T22: Met England. Opened Honor.
T23: -
T24: Archer done, start another.
T25: Met Ethiopia. AH -> Calendar. Horses near Kailash and eastern Wine.
T26: Goddess of Protection goes.
T27: Met Yerevan, pledge.
T28: Sacred Path goes to England.
T29: Cleared a camp - 112 gold, 7 culture. Met Rome.
T30: Killed a brute - 8 culture.
T31: Cleared a camp - 112 gold. Purchased a worker. Ruin gives population.
T32: Archer done, start Settler.
T33: -
T34: Open Tradition. Border growth will help, and we're not building a Shrine yet anyway.
T35: Clear a camp - 112 gold, 7 culture.
T36: Have to take an insta-heal on the Spearman. First religion goes to Ethiopia - Mosques, +100 gold.
T37: Sofia targets a camp that we're working on. Sofia's borders are growing towards the Horses near Kailash. I wonder if we can beat them to it.
T38: Pacal offers DoF, I accept. Almaty also targets a camp.
T39: Kill a barb brute, 8 culture. Calendar done, start Bronze.
T40: All yours, good luck. Riga targets the camp 3 tiles east of them.

Spoiler Screen :

Barb yields so far: 336 gold, 30 culture.

 

[rickyvaughn]

t40: +16c
t41: +224g. Purchase Archer (-270g).
t42: +8c
t43: Open Piety.
t44: Liz wants our embassy. I decline.
t45: See that Pacal has an extra Fur. Trade our Salt for Fur.
t46: 7th ruin culture. Settler into another Settler. Liz ruins a nice little Cotton/Ivory coastal expansion with a city. Barb camp shows up just N of cap.
t47: Pacal wants our embassy. I decline. Not sure if he knows where we live. Unknown takes Gem faith pantheon.
t48: 8th ruin tech (Sailing). +112g, +15c.
t49:
t50: +8c. BW to Writing. Figured we'd head towards Mosques. No iron anywhere settleable in our territory. Bad for Salt faith.
t51: +7c. Settle Tomboctu next to Kailash. Purchase 2nd horse tile (-80g). Work Kailash for pantheon. Start Monument. Thought about Shrine, but need to start grabbing tiles before the CSs take them all.
t52: Great Library goes to unknown.
t53:
t54: +9c
t55: Received Warr from Sofia. Stonehenge goes to Ethiopia. Dude is ballin with that religion. New barb camp E of Sofia.
t56: Ethiopia grabs Sacred Sites.
t57: Goa: Settler to 3t Shrine. +112g, +18c. Take Organized Religion. Camp cleared for Riga.
t58:
t59: +10c. Melbourne targets our SW camp. Pantheon ready. Pasture culture +6 culture eventually (meh). Salt faith will be +3 here pretty quick, but with no iron is not good. Camp food would be good with Mayan lands, but not good now. Decide on NW faith at this point for the immediate +4. If you see something game changing that I missed, let me know and I can send you the autosave from 1 turn earlier than the save I'm going to send. Haille takes Pagodas and Cheap Missionaries. That may not be too bad with Religious Tolerance. Stop working Kailash momentarily to grow once to speed along a little production.
t60: Settler headed towards Wine/Fur/Horses spot for some caravan science, but Pacal already has at least 3 CBs and Liz is dark red already wanting our lands. May be more prudent to settle our coastal Cotton city, then 3-city NC into XBs to take out Liz, Pacal, and Haille. Need to scout E of Palenque. Assuming that Ethiopian lands are over there. Scout couldn't get thru earlier due to all the barbs, so he went to help the Archer clear that camp. Those 2 were headed towards that camp by Sofia. Shrine done. I was thinking another Worker next. Archer needs to grab camp and start clearing fog to the NE. Warr was headed to help him clear any camps he finds.

Last 20t: 448g, 91c. Total: 784g, 121c. I think 30% of this map might be ice.

 

[vadalaz]

I went with the 4-city plan, and sent the Caravan to Liz to improve our relationship. Took a couple of tech detours before Philo that I figured would be useful.

T60: Start Caravan in Gao. +112g, +10c.
T62: Writing done, start The Wheel. Tombouctu could use a watermill. Chariots would help too.
T63: +112g, +8c. Sell embassy to Pacal, buy Worker.
T64: +112g, empty camp near Sofia. Settle Jenne, start Monument.
T67: +112g, +8c.
T68: +112g, +8c, camp cleared for Melbourne. Scout finds Ethiopia's borders and a camp with a worker and an archer inside. The scout might be able to solo it...
T69: Caravan done in Gao, start Settler
T70: Tombouctu grows, working Kailash again. Sent trade route to Nottingham.
T71: Scout gets lucky - Haile attacks the barb archer with a warrior and we get to finish him off for +112g, +7c, a worker and some influence with Singapore. The Wheel done, start Trapping.
T73: +112g, +8c. Share embassies with England. Purchase Watermill in Tombouctu, start Shrine.
T74: Salt <> Spices w/Liz. She's friendly now. We'll get another Salt soon.
T75: Met Pedro. ToA goes, no longer friends with Sofia. Camp: +112g, +19c. One of Pacal's cities is following Haile's religion already. It'll spread really fast. Rome's building up army, he's at 50k now.
T76: Gao finishes Settler, starts Chariot.
T78: New barb camp 5 tiles NE of our capital, will be good target practice for the Chariot. Met Ragusa, hostile, seeking investors. Trapping done, start Philo.
T80: Shrine done in Tombouctu, Monument done in Jenne, another barb camps spawns 4 tiles away from Jenne.

Spoiler Screen :

Barbs this session: +784g, +68c. Total: 1568g, 189c. Nice. We can probably start thinking about perma-allying some city-state soon with this kind of income.

Warrior's preventing barb camp spawns on our trade route path. NE Archer was going for the camp north of Chichen Itza, although Pacal might snipe that.

 

[rickyvaughn]

You have a VC in mind? We leaving it open for now? I think I assumed Dom when you said Honor mix, but that may have just been for the culture.

 

[vadalaz]

Didn't really have a VC in mind, but I think it might be more interesting to go for culture or science to see how Honor&Piety perform. Just straight up domination works for me too though.

 

[rickyvaughn]

T80: Jenne: Mon to Library. Tom: Shrine to Library.
T81: Settle Taghaza. Start Mon.
T82:
T83: Gao: Chariot to Chariot.
T84: +112g, +10c. Ethical Dilemma: Unescorted Roman Settler shows up. A Roman city over here north of cap would be annoying, so I DOW Rome and steal Settler. I felt like it didn’t go against the spirit of the rule.
T85: +10c. Pyramids goes.
T86: +112g.
T87: +9c. Riga is shooting camp N of cap. Will have to capture.
T88: Meet Pacha. +224g. Take Rel Tolerance.
T89: Pacal build MoH.
T90: Gao: Chariot to Library.
T91: Renewed Fur trade.
T92: Prophet: Tithe and Temple happy. 2nd Religion. Thought abt Cathedrals.
T93: +112g, 18c. Brazil takes Cathedrals.
T94: +8c. Hails plants an Eff You city right between Pacal and Liz. Should keep them all busy.
T95: DOF Brazil. +112g, +14c.
T96: We owe Pacal after he snipes a camp from me. +112g.
T97: Philosophy to Drama. Figured we didn’t need Optics just yet for the coastal and that we needed to stay on the top of the tree. Drama can go into early Theo for Religion shenanigans or CS.
T98: GW to Pedro. Tom: Library to MPM. +112g, +7c. Purchase Library in Taghaza.
T99: Gao: Library to starting Granary before NC.
T100: Can start NC next turn. At war with Rome still. Won’t take peace.

Last 20t: 784g, 76c. Total: 2,352g, 265c.

 

[vadalaz]

Haha. I guess the rules didn't say anything about settlers.

I went for Civil Service because I thought Pacal would beat us to everything Theology-related anyway.

T100: Sell Horses to Pacal, Dyes to Pedro. Purchase Caravan in Gao.
T101: Trade route to Riga. +8c, +112g. Buy riverside plains in Jenne. Met Ramkham, trade Salt <> Copper.
T102: Allies with Riga. Ally status will run out in a few turns, but I'm hoping to sustain it with camp money and complete the SoZ quest at some point as well.
T103: +17c. Met Kiev, found Uluru.
T105: Finish Gran, start NC in Gao.
T107: +112g, +16c. Drama done, start Horseback.
T108: +8c. Ethiopia offers DoF, decline.
T109: +8c, lots of barbs making it hard to clear a camp.
T111: +17c. Met Hanoi.
T112: +224g. Renew DoF with Pacal. Horseback done, start Maths.
T113: Jenne is converted to EO.
T114: +7c. Buy a Mosque in Jenne.
T115: +7c.
T116: Sell Salt to Pedro. Don't need the happiness right now and we can connect another Salt in Taghaza fairly soon.
T117: +9c. Maths done, start Currency.
T118: Noone other than Haile has gone Piety so I figure we can delay Reformation. Take discounts on faith purchases instead.
T119: +17c, +112g. 500 gold to ally Riga again. Met Monaco.
T120: All yours. Four Horses to sell if you want to. Northern units have taken a beating, lots of barbs there. Maybe Heathen Conversion would work well? Gift useless units to CSs, keep good ones to get more camp gold and/or attack AIs.

Last 20t: 114c, 560g. Not a good session in terms of camp gold. Total: 2912g, 379c. (so roughly 24 gpt and 3 cpt at the moment)

Spoiler Screen :

 

[rickyvaughn]

Looks like we’ll enhance pretty quick, you have any thoughts? Production? I guess that would prob work for science or culture vics. And cheap Prophets for the Landmarks or spread faster maybe?

 

[vadalaz]

Sounds good to me. Can't go wrong with production, and both of those enhancers are fine.

 

[rickyvaughn]

t120: +9c. Renew Salt for Spices trade w/ Liz. Peace w/ Rome.
t121: +8c.
t122:
t123: +112g, +24c. Currency to CS.
t124: +112g. Liz wants us to war Pedro. Decline.
t125: Rammy builds Chichen.
t126: +8c.
t127: Gao: NC to MPM. Jenne converts back to EO.
t128: +112g, +18c. Now Pacha wants us to war Pedro. Pedro is being a bad boy apparently.
t129: +112g, +19c. Jenne: MPM to Circus.
t130: Enhance w/ Prod & Spread Faster
t131: Gao: MPM to Water Mill.
t132: CS to Optics
t133: Rammy won't give me OB. Pacal builds Boro. Liz grabs Petra. Pacha DOWs Haille.
t134: Optics to Theo. Rome declares on Yerevan.
t135: Figure we grab a Missionary here in a couple of turns and then maybe a Monastery in Jenne before the GP rush. Other than that, it looks like trouble is brewing out E, which is good for us. Good luck on your turns.

Last 15t: 448g, 77c. Total: 3,360g, 465c.

 

[vadalaz]

Nice. If Rome captures Yerevan that's a free cultural ally later.

We could go Construction/Engineering or even Machinery first to have the units to liberate Yerevan (and unlock another TR and aqueducts as a bonus). Hard to say if August can even take the city though.

Statue of Zeus is starting to seem like a pretty good build now, only 14 turns in the capital, completes 3 CS quests. But perhaps we can try to grab Oracle first - I'm not seeing its skeleton in any of the major cities, not even in Pacal's lands. Great Mosque could be a thing too if we do finish Theology here quickly.

Any thoughts on Reformation? I'm considering HC, JE and TTGOG.

Total barb yields: 3360g, 465c.

 

[rickyvaughn]

I guess I would only head towards XBs if we wanted all of Roman lands (and maybe Mayan lands as well). We could definitely go CBs and take Yerevan back, if he does make some progress there.

Yes, I almost built SoZ instead of the Water Mill in Gao. Figured I should be practical. Although, I think we could build it in Jenne and try to get Oracle/Mosque in Gao?

If there's ever a map to go HC, this might be it. The other two will obvious work as well. I would lean toward TTGoG slightly.

 

[vadalaz]

Yeah I'm reluctant to go for Machinery because most of the AI cities look awful anyway, and I'd prefer to ally all the CSs around us first. Engineering into Education makes the most sense to me, I think.

Agree on Oracle/Mosque in the cap and SoZ in an expo. I don't think any AIs have gone Honor so there's no rush.

There's also the option to limit our own religion to just 1 or 2 cities for HC missionaries or TTGoG great people, and adopt Haile's in all others. Pagodas and Mosques with Sacred Sites and a strong faith pantheon is about as good as it gets.

 

[vadalaz]

This did not go very well.

T135: Lock some gold tiles and buy OB from Siam for 2 gpt to keep scouting. Switch tech to Engineering beeline. Start Lighthouse in Tag.
T136: +224g, +29c. Found Mt Sinai.
T137: Scout finds empty barb camp south of Lampang. Yerevan targets a camp in an inconvenient spot between them and Almaty. Start Oracle in Gao. Salt <> Furs with Pacal ends. Sell Salt to him for 360 gold this time. Buy Furs tile. Purchase Pagoda in Jenne.
T138: Clear the empty camp, +112g.
T139: Tombouctu starts SoZ. 250g to Riga as we're below 70 influence. Addis Ababa down to yellow health. Yerevan still untouched by Augustus.
T140: I notice that Pacal's building Oracle in his capital. I haven't been checking every turn so I'm not sure when he started it. I send a worker to chop a forest and lock max hammers. Hopefully this will be enough to beat Pacal.
T141: Riga targets a camp.
T142: Haile and Pacha make peace. Addis Ababa doesn't get captured. The missionary spam will continue then.
T143: Pacal offers to DoW Haile. I refuse, because Haile's allies with Sofia. +112g,+20c, camp cleared for Riga.
T144: Engineering done, back to Theology. Purchase a missionary.
T145: Reformation. I take Heathen Conversion because it's fitting on this map.
T146: There's a Pikeman barb in the camp between Yerevan and Almaty. Have to be careful with the archer there, so he'll wait for the Spear to catch up. Sell Horses, Dyes, buy Caravan.
T147: Trade route to Almaty. Convert Tombouctu.
T148: +112g, +14c. We get Haile's pantheon in Gao with Religious Tolerance.
T149: Convert Taghaza. Barb camp near Yerevan spawns a CB. Finish Theology, start IW for Mohawks from Almaty potentially
T150: Ouch. Haile beats us to Oracle, we get 348 fail gold. Lost it by one turn. If only Pacha managed to take AA... Seems like Haile's also cleared the camp that I was going for with our two CBs. There should be more in the area. Augustus builds Colossus.

Faith purchase available. Could get a missionary and start amassing troops to just kill all of these annoying AIs. They're an unpleasant bunch.

I meant to buy one of the sheep tiles in Kailash city after the borders grow toward them. Gao is still working weak tiles I locked for Oracle. I think we need another worker or two to get our roads and riverside farms up.

Not sure about building Great Mosque, I think going for infrastructure in the capital is probably better. But then again, we aren't going for the optimal playthrough here, so might as well try it. Your call.

Barb yields this session: 560g, 63c. Totals: 3920g, 528c.

Spoiler Screen :

 

[rickyvaughn]

My apologies, vad. Between work and kid stuff and not feeling well, I’ve not gotten to play. I hope to have time this evening.

 

[vadalaz]

No worries. Take as much time as you need.