Spearman vs Tank - The Real Story

[Sirian]

I've seen the complaints. I've read the hype.

However, in a game situation, this is how Spearman vs Tank really works:





Case closed.


- Sirian

 

[CVDon]

See also Etheopia -vs- Italy (1935) and Poland -vs- Germany (1939).

 

[BearMan]

yepp, I never had that problem either
However, the gunship is strange from the beginning to the end.
there is a thread about that, and it's in the bug reports...
They really need to get the gunship of the ground in a patch

Something you can fix sirian ?

 

[werdna]

with spearman that size, now I see why he can sometimes win.
I'm sure his armor is pretty thick and can reflect shells from the tank.

 

[Sirian]

BearMan: The Gunship is doing what it is supposed to be doing: it's the Spearman of the modern era.

The Spearman is a weak, crappy unit in Civ4, except against Chariots and Horse Archers, which are the "blitzkrieg" units of the ancient era.

The Gunship is a weak, crappy unit, except against Tanks, which are the "blitzkrieg" unit of the modern era. The Gunship's gameplay role is specifically to offer a unit good at hunting (and defending against) Tanks. Gunships make Tanks afraid to travel alone and pillage at will. They put the fear of God in to the hearts of monolithic stacks of unescorted Tanks on the offensive.

Players need to get past the graphics and "realism" and deal with the gameplay. The Gunship is doing exactly what it is meant to do. It's not good at attacking fortified cities, so I have no sympathy for complaints of "Longbow killed my Gunship!" Yeah? So what. A single human doesn't last for 6000 years. America was not founded in 4000BC. It doesn't take hundreds of years for even ancient sailing ships to sail around to the other side of a continent. IT'S A GAME, PEOPLE. Gameplay first, realism second.

My two bits on the subject.


- Sirian

 

[JadeDragon87]

If you look carefully, you can see that he is trying to put his spear into the cannon of the tank. But the tank fired to soon.

 

[snepp]

Amen. 1234

 

[BearMan]

BearMan: The Gunship is doing what it is supposed to be doing: it's the Spearman of the modern era.

I agree with you
However, that wasn't what I was talking about
It was more that gunships get penalties when attacking across rivers, and stuff like that

 

[Bertilsson]

The gunship seems to be able fly forever without support in enemy territory, but it can not fly over a puddle on the map. It travels slower than infantry in friendly territory which makes it feel like forever before it gets to the front. But I agree that when it's finally there it does it's jobb. But surely it could be improved in a patch.

Spearman vs tank is a matter of odds if you don't like the odds, don't attack.
If you like the odds attack. Very simple.

Loosing a battleship to a militia in civ1 was something I could understand people getting upset by. Loosing a tank to a spearman in civ4 is just whining

 

[Sullla]

Interesting that I get my first view of the world via Satellites HERE and not in the RB1 thread! Looks like some funky continents there from the Custom Continents script.

 

[Sirian]

I agree with you
However, that wasn't what I was talking about
It was more that gunships get penalties when attacking across rivers, and stuff like that

Well, the river thing I understand, but it's still a realism issue, not a gameplay one. You can simply fly across the river first, then attack.

The Gunship does have one feature other ground units lack, and it's the ability to unload off a Transport and attack inland on the same turn. This includes the ability to fly inland and pillage!

Just try thinking of the Gunship as a Ground Unit (which in game logic terms, it IS, with one or two special rules applied) and everything will make sense on the gameplay level.


Sulla: Custom Continents provided a lot of variety! That's one reason why I wanted to feature it in our first SG.


- Sirian

 

[yoshi74]

Actually it does makes some sense for the gunships penalty to attack across a river. One of the most important thing for a gunship in enemy territory is cover. Hover behind a hill, use the rotor cam to find targets, rise some meters, fire and duck again. A river doesn't adds some cover at all to a gunship (as long as its above the water ).

I seriously doubt this thoughts are the reason why gunships get the penalty though .

 

[MeteorPunch]

Looks like some funky continents there from the Custom Continents script.

I would take those kind of continents out of the script if I knew how. I tend to get them a lot and just don't like 'em.

 

[KingKHAN]

See also Etheopia -vs- Italy (1935) and Poland -vs- Germany (1939).

Yep, the Ethiopians used Muskets (300 year old guns) to fight off the German Tanks. . . And spears, I read about this a few years ago in History Class lol.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Well, the river thing I understand, but it's still a realism issue, not a gameplay one. You can simply fly across the river first, then attack.

The Gunship does have one feature other ground units lack, and it's the ability to unload off a Transport and attack inland on the same turn. This includes the ability to fly inland and pillage!

Just try thinking of the Gunship as a Ground Unit (which in game logic terms, it IS, with one or two special rules applied) and everything will make sense on the gameplay level.


Sulla: Custom Continents provided a lot of variety! That's one reason why I wanted to feature it in our first SG.


- Sirian

Well it should probably have the Amphibious bonus (for across rivers And off a transport.) It make make sense for it to use friendly RR too, or possibly have a rebase option... whichever was easier to program.

 

[BearMan]

Well it should probably have the Amphibious bonus (for across rivers And off a transport.) It make make sense for it to use friendly RR too, or possibly have a rebase option... whichever was easier to program.

Agree, or just get a "fixed wing" promotion, (There will probably be more helicopters in the future) that includes everything that is normal for a helicopter:

• can fly over ocean/coast/lakes, just need to end turn on land.
• can attack across rivers and make landfall without problems.
• etc...

I hope they didn't make a fundamental error while writing the unit classes,
like defining naval/land as boolean forced on every unit

 

[Gogf]

Isn't that a pikeman (thus proving your point even more?) ?

 

[57%]

Counterpoint:
Zulu Victory over British, Isandlwana, 1879