Spies, Emperor and above: First spy usage?

[Goodenuf]

Question: On the more advanced levels (say, Emperor+), how do you use your first spy? Do you go offensive and drop them into your most hated Civ's capital? Or do you go defensive and put them in your biggest city to defend against enemy Civs?

If you go offensive, what do you target? Tech? Cash?
If you go defensive, what do you defend? Cash? Tech?

Or... other uses?

 

[blackbutterfly]

Offensive - because it's the only way to earn promotions. Quickest way.

Gain Sources.
Then pick any mission with above 50% chance to succeed. Earn a promotion...and take it from there.

Cash > Tech for % success.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

I always go offensive with them, and try to get it promoted ideally through the Siphon funds mission (gold stealing).
It has the highest chance of success together with Foment Unrest, but unlike Foment Unrest that is only useful in about 2% of cases, Siphon Funds is nearly always a decent option.
Unfortunately the AI seems to build less commercial hubs these days, so the option might not even be available and foment unrest is a good option at that point.
Either way, I usually go for gain sources first, and then try to get him promoted to level 2 or 3 as soon as possible.
Usually this applies for my second spy as well.
If I get Technologist on my first promotion I might swap to tech stealing if I'm behind on tech, but that's usually too many ifs for me to care about.

Defensive spy use is pretty much only for when I'm playing for a scientific victory, at which point I want to have my spy trained up with one of the many defensive promotions, ideally at level 3.
And I'll only use a defensive spy once I get my spaceport up, otherwise its not worth it.
Outside of defending your spaceport, defensive spies are essentially a waste of a spy imo.

 

[Miserable Old Git]

Totally agree with above.

 

[ezzlar]

First one jumps around doing Listening Post to improve combat odds (+3) against next civ I am going to fight, defend or attack. Following either do offensive missions or counterspy if I am playing district cluster civs like Germany or Japan.

 

[Aurelesk]

Usually, I put them on training mode (Siphon or Unrest) to reach level 3. I tend to pick the worst Promotion for the first two ones. A master Spy gain +2 diplomatic level access instead of 1, so +6 Combat Strength instead of 1. They will usually run Listen Post when at War, or Siphon Funds. Steal Tech Boost when behind, and Great Work Heist if I need some Great Works (it is simpler to buy, but not when denounced). The AI tends to shuffle their Great Works at random, ending the mission prematurely.
Sabotage and Recruit Partisans feel to dangerous to do for what they do.

Then I will try to get my "City-State" Spy: Ace Driver (+4 level to escape: CS don't take prisoners), Disguise (Takes no time to establish), Linguist (-25% time) or Smear Campaign (+2 level on City-State). At level 3, they remove 6 Envoys at once. Be careful: a City-State an AI has no Envoys in is more likely to get conquered.

Also, I will try to get my "home" Spy: Quartermaster (+1 level to all Spies when at home), Polygraph (-1 level to all enemy Spies when at home), Surveillance (+1 level counterspy / all districts in city are protected) or Seduction (+2 level counterspy). I tend to set-up a well placed coastal cities with Reyna, Commercial Hub + Harbor, Diplomatic Quarter and Encampment. This is my Spy trap. If the AI wants to do something, they will go there so my Industrial Zone or Governors are "safe".

 

[Kotofei]

I always go offensive with them, and try to get it promoted ideally through the Siphon funds mission (gold stealing).
It has the highest chance of success together with Foment Unrest, but unlike Foment Unrest that is only useful in about 2% of cases, Siphon Funds is nearly always a decent option.
Unfortunately the AI seems to build less commercial hubs these days, so the option might not even be available and foment unrest is a good option at that point.
Either way, I usually go for gain sources first, and then try to get him promoted to level 2 or 3 as soon as possible.
Usually this applies for my second spy as well.
If I get Technologist on my first promotion I might swap to tech stealing if I'm behind on tech, but that's usually too many ifs for me to care about.

Defensive spy use is pretty much only for when I'm playing for a scientific victory, at which point I want to have my spy trained up with one of the many defensive promotions, ideally at level 3.
And I'll only use a defensive spy once I get my spaceport up, otherwise its not worth it.
Outside of defending your spaceport, defensive spies are essentially a waste of a spy imo.

This is good advice. I'll use a defensive spy if the AI is doing a number on Pingala in my capital, but you won't go wrong with this strategy.

 

[Francel]

Master spy with listening post is indeed very good, and there is even a civ that doubles this bonus from +6 to +12. This is powerful not just for war but religious play as well.

 

[kaspergm]

I always forget to build spies.

 

[reddishrecue]

I build them because I have time to. I usually do at that time of the game.

 

[Victoria]

I just find Fabricate scandal is my go-to but perhaps first a bit of gold in pocket with the intelligenece agency to get the promos goin

 

[Ordnael]

If I am already being harassed by AI spies then first spy goes for defensive missions, otherwise I go for the AI gold, safest mission possible. If the spy gets the right promotions then I move on to art theft.

 

[Hull tyyp]

Usually, I put them on training mode (Siphon or Unrest) to reach level 3. I tend to pick the worst Promotion for the first two ones. A master Spy gain +2 diplomatic level access instead of 1, so +6 Combat Strength instead of 1. They will usually run Listen Post when at War, or Siphon Funds. Steal Tech Boost when behind, and Great Work Heist if I need some Great Works (it is simpler to buy, but not when denounced). The AI tends to shuffle their Great Works at random, ending the mission prematurely.
Sabotage and Recruit Partisans feel to dangerous to do for what they do.

Then I will try to get my "City-State" Spy: Ace Driver (+4 level to escape: CS don't take prisoners), Disguise (Takes no time to establish), Linguist (-25% time) or Smear Campaign (+2 level on City-State). At level 3, they remove 6 Envoys at once. Be careful: a City-State an AI has no Envoys in is more likely to get conquered.

Also, I will try to get my "home" Spy: Quartermaster (+1 level to all Spies when at home), Polygraph (-1 level to all enemy Spies when at home), Surveillance (+1 level counterspy / all districts in city are protected) or Seduction (+2 level counterspy). I tend to set-up a well placed coastal cities with Reyna, Commercial Hub + Harbor, Diplomatic Quarter and Encampment. This is my Spy trap. If the AI wants to do something, they will go there so my Industrial Zone or Governors are "safe".

Some good advice here!
I'd like to do a game where I take advantage of the spies, which leader/game setup is best?
I was thinking the chinese spy master who can buy them with faith?

Last game I played was diety, marathon, continents, huge, Ceasar.
Managed to kill everyone on my home continent before meeting the other players. Was ready with my spies only to discover the other continent players didn't build any commercial hubs. So all the spy missions failed and it was a waste of investment.

 

[Victoria]

I was thinking the chinese spy master who can buy them with faith?

Catherine de Medici, earlier spies, extra spy and all start a level higher. Quality and quantity. Potala palace helps.
She is weak early so go for a military start and try and take a city or 2, then settle down.
You have got me in the mood. gonna start a game with her now

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

Catherine de Medici, earlier spies, extra spy and all start a level higher. Quality and quantity. Potala palace helps.
She is weak early so go for a military start and try and take a city or 2, then settle down.
You have got me in the mood. gonna start a game with her now

Weak early?
She starts off with a free +3 combat strength modifier against any civ she meets, due to her leader ability.
It's not game breaking, but it doesn't require any setup and it's quite a bit more than your average vanilla civ gets for ancient/classical era rushing purposes.

 

[Victoria]

Weak early?

I forgot about that, and also forgot that if you actually look at your rumours you can see things like what civics they are slotting as well as other useful stuff. It just makes a longer game...

Here Rome is still friends with Yerevan but I have been getting warnings for the last 2 turns

Its pretty easy as Catherise to do well with spies