Subdued Animals in C2C discussions

[Iceciro]

Post tribalism; on a larger than normal map by far (above gigantic) and post-tribalism.

My issue was less about the animals alone and more surprise at the comparison of animals versus the number of actual 'barbarians' about, and wondered if that was because my original difficulty was prince.

 

[Faustmouse]

I could imagine that this is because existing animals and barbs don't go away. The units already spawned will stay there and only the new spawning is influenced by your difficult.

 

[Taxman66]

And the fact that Barbarians (including those generated by Barbarian cities) don't hunt animals.

 

[Yudishtira]

And the fact that Barbarians (including those generated by Barbarian cities) don't hunt animals.

I'd love to see more barbarians fighting amongst themselves (not only hunting), but I guess they can't while they're all 'allies' under the one flag...

Animals fighting animals, animals fighting barbarians and barbarians fighting barbarians - that seems realistic. Even one barbarian city should not necessarily be allied with another.

On an unrelated note (one more relevant to the thread), are there promotions or upgrades for subdued animals to make them capable of attacking? A subdued elephant is not much different from a rideable one, is it? And I imagine a subdued panther could be trained to be as useful in battle as trained dogs are.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

On an unrelated note (one more relevant to the thread), are there promotions or upgrades for subdued animals to make them capable of attacking? A subdued elephant is not much different from a rideable one, is it? And I imagine a subdued panther could be trained to be as useful in battle as trained dogs are.

You have to upgrade them. Which in the case of an elephant requires an elephant trainer building. Panthers - we had Trained Panthers, can't remember why I removed them.

 

[JosEPh_II]

You have to upgrade them. Which in the case of an elephant requires an elephant trainer building. Panthers - we had Trained Panthers, can't remember why I removed them.

Because someone complained that the trained Panther unit was too strong at str 6 and 2 movement. (imho, dumb unthoughtful complaints are tearing holes in the mod constantly)

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

I personally thought the animal units needed more 'thought' about what they should be, but I don't at all like having them taken out!

 

[MaXimillionZero]

Because someone complained that the trained Panther unit was too strong at str 6 and 2 movement. (imho, dumb unthoughtful complaints are tearing holes in the mod constantly)

If the reaction to a balance issue is complete removal instead of rebalancing, it's hardly the one raising the issue that's at fault.

 

[GT Ranma]

I personally thought the animal units needed more 'thought' about what they should be, but I don't at all like having them taken out!

I could see why someone complained thou, there are some people on this forums that do not want ANYTHING that isn't cannon in the mod. Which I think is total crapola, I want to see my Mermaids and Hydras... Of course, I am not saying that the 'fantasy' element shouldn't be able to be turned off, but I without a doubt like the 'Deer Rider', 'Bear Rider', ect ect. It adds more flavor to the play through.

I am not sure how well the Panthera genus would do as anything other then a 'War' unit, as apposed to replacing the Canine. I really do not think it should get any of the 'crime fighting' upgrades, as they do not have very good olfactory nerves, unlike Canines. They can be taught to jump through hoops and whatnot, but they can not be trained for complex actions like that which would be needed if they were a replacement (or upgrade) for the Canine unit.

 

[Yudishtira]

Because someone complained that the trained Panther unit was too strong at str 6 and 2 movement. (imho, dumb unthoughtful complaints are tearing holes in the mod constantly)

JosEPh

When upgrading from subdued animals, if the upgrade costs 20-40, it need only add 1 strength eg. Jaguar Str 3, Bengal Tiger Str 4, etc. If its a pricier upgrade of 80-100, then +1 strength on top of that might be in order. Your tiger is still only Str 5.

As for 2 move, all my bear riders are starting with 2 move, and even my elephants are starting to get it, so it's not that OP for mere cats ... (Ramkhamhaeng's got trained dogs with 3 moves - must be the two mobility/racing promotions - ay caramba!)

Same would apply for building them from scratch I guess - if you can do that at all (I haven't noticed the option to breed a herd of cats as yet).

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The "Tamed Animals" mod was added by me but without thought to balancing the units for the era. They are still in the game, I just re-purposed them while I thought about them. Not having time at the time. Currently they are created by the "Montreal Biodome" National Wonder which people (modders) have been asking be removed or changed to a World Wonder because it is contains a place name.

 

[Yudishtira]

The "Tamed Animals" mod was added by me but without thought to balancing the units for the era. They are still in the game, I just re-purposed them while I thought about them. Not having time at the time. Currently they are created by the "Montreal Biodome" National Wonder which people (modders) have been asking be removed or changed to a World Wonder because it is contains a place name.

Well with all due respect, no-one is going to build trained tigers in the modern era (unless for the 'Siegfried & Roy' World Wonder ), so moving them there amounts to removing them from the game. We've got domesticated, ridden and subdued animals in the prehistoric to early ancient, and that's when I'd have a use for war/hunting/guard kitties. If I can't have them, no big deal, I'm just saying...

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Well with all due respect, no-one is going to build trained tigers in the modern era (unless for the 'Siegfried & Roy' World Wonder ), so moving them there amounts to removing them from the game. We've got domesticated, ridden and subdued animals in the prehistoric to early ancient, and that's when I'd have a use for war/hunting/guard kitties. If I can't have them, no big deal, I'm just saying...

1) They build the same buildings as their subdued counterparts and upgrade to the canine line.

2) You still can't build them they are given free.

3) We have graphics for a Classic Era and Medieval Era version of any animal we already have. The classic era ones could easily fit the prehistoric although leather working should be a requirement for the whips

4) they even have their own thread here.

 

[GT Ranma]

That is friggen pimp... I want a Beast Master... I'd name him Dar.

Anywho, I for one think the biodome should be kept in, at least until we have some other way of spawning units post 'the map is filled with countries' game play. And did you ever get around to expanding it to be able to spawn any subdued animal, or just the 4? (Or 3? I forget).

And I would like to make 1 more point: Diversity of units should _NOT_ be for the sake of being able to make more powerful units, they should be for the sake of diversity. So each play through could be different and have different options depending upon the starting resources of your country. At pre-Monarchy you don't have to many cities, up to say 10? I forget. So hopefully each play through would be different depending upon which special resources you get. At least, in my opinion, that would be full of awesomeness. Yo.

Edit: Also, you could make the Panthers like the Wolves where in you have to make a special building by consuming the Panthera (Dog Kennel) to be able to build the Panther/Lions War units. That way, if people don't want to, they don't have to 'use' one of them to make it. So for small map'ed games this would make them pick and choose what they want or don't want since animal units are semi-scarce.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Why does everyone assume that all players use City Limits? Otherwise I agree about diversity.

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Why does everyone assume that all players use City Limits? Otherwise I agree about diversity.

JosEPh

Because most people like city limits

 

[strategyonly]

Because most people like city limits

Now you know i agree with DH I gotta keep ONE modder older than me around

 

[JosEPh_II]

Because most people like city limits

Bah Humbug! Ain't true.

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Note: JosEPh is the eldest, then SO, them me as the youngest of the post 50 year olds on this project.

 

[ls612]

Note: JosEPh is the eldest, then SO, them me as the youngest of the post 50 year olds on this project.

And I'm just the youngest regular modder, period. I'm surrounded by geezers!