Suggestions and bug reports.

[dispalor]

With Patch 3

- While playing the Greeks, I noticed lots of Hoplite-Units cannot be built in late game, because they wrongly upgrade to some cheapish skirmisher.

- Very often when conquering a city I conquered great people. It is pretty usual. Barbarian cities get great people as well, and don't use them neither (I noticed that in self-placed barbarian cities).

- Goats appear in "impassable terrain".

- Is there a possibility for animalfree zones or a limit to animals? I made a map with a large desert and only a few places where one could build a city. So there was a vast area of deserts not being someone's territory. I counted at an average 4 units of animals per spot and they counted up to let's say a couple of hundred. They finished any civ I placed in that area and when I finally took a barbarian city on that coast... it was a massacre... and it took a hundred years... every turn half a dozen attacks...

-The problem with archers. Well, that's a question of taste. But right now in your mod they have 3 advantages as city defenders: They can defend better in cities, they can shoot arrows at the attckers whenever it's their turn and they are a lot cheaper, so you have masses of them. That is way too much.

- Religion too strong in diplomacy. Its a usual thing to complain about people being different and religion is a strong one at that. But in the ancient times the difference was'nt that great and the greeks didn't think bad about the egyptians because of their different beliefs. The Romans did such things, but I guess they were pretty unique in that (at least I never heard anything like that).

- I needed to mod the slaves. Every gladiator gives you +1 exp, so with a couple of wonders, generals and lots of slaves you can easily pop out units with 30 EXP. That defeats the purpose a little imho. But... question of taste of course.

- I had a crash from time to time or my game after change of turn would just sit there a do nothing. That could be solved most of the time by changing CvEventManager.py. I deleted whole chunks of text till it ran again. This was the part I had to erase:

Spoiler :

def __eventWBLandmarkPopupApply(self, playerID, userData, popupReturn):
sScript = popupReturn.getEditBoxString(0)
pPlot = CyMap().plot(userData[0], userData[1])
iPlayer = userData[2]
if userData[3] > -1:
pSign = CyEngine().getSignByIndex(userData[3])
iPlayer = pSign.getPlayerType()
CyEngine().removeSign(pPlot, iPlayer)
if len(sScript):
if iPlayer == gc.getBARBARIAN_PLAYER():
CyEngine().addLandmark(pPlot, CvUtil.convertToStr(sScript))
else:
CyEngine().addSign(pPlot, iPlayer, CvUtil.convertToStr(sScript))
WBPlotScreen.iCounter = 10
return

I don't know what it does, but in the end almost nothing worked anymore.

- Villa Rustica is great, but developed towns should still be greater. Otherwise you just put villae everywhere and the roman landscapes looks just weird.

- A fortress in the plains gives *considerably* less defense than any wood, not to mention wooden hill. That's too much difference. You don't need any fortresses as long as you have difficult terrain. Wood 50% ist way too much... I think it's vanilla. It's stupid nevertheless

- Historical inaccuracy: Christians did not end slavery, that is just a myth. They did not bother until the economic situation changed so much, that slaves were not important anymore. And that is AFTER your scenario.

Have fun

 

[Keinpferd]

While playing the Greeks, I noticed lots of Hoplite-Units cannot be built in late game, because they wrongly upgrade to some cheapish skirmisher.

This solution may not seem perfect, but what it reliably does: You don't meet any hoplites in the days of the Roman Empire. They are so out of place in late game, that they must go obsolete earlier somehow. That hoplites "upgrade" to something obviously inferior, is odd – but consistent with what Polybios says. – In Total War Rome II, they offer Macedonian style phanlangites, who in later eras take the place of classical hoplites. How would you solve it?

The problem with archers. Well, that's a question of taste. But right now in your mod they have 3 advantages as city defenders: They can defend better in cities, they can shoot arrows at the attckers whenever it's their turn and they are a lot cheaper, so you have masses of them. That is way too much.

Good city defenders is what they should be. Ranged attack makes them unique. And an armourless bowman is "cheap" to equip and train compared to a skilled heavy infantry man. – As of late players have to "pay for arrows" to balance archers out. I don't particularly like that, but when I read your comment, it's rather in support of that direction.

Maybe archers amassing could be avoided through the supply feature. Archers eat as much as heavily armed soldiers, and you should always have to think about your army composition with an eye on supply costs. It should become unreasonable at a certain point to mass archers, "because they eat too much" in relation to their actual usefulness. If you have to feed ten Chihuahuas and one Doberman, it's logistically different than if you have to serve dinner every night to ten archers and one hoplite.

Religion too strong in diplomacy. Its a usual thing to complain about people being different and religion is a strong one at that. But in the ancient times the difference was'nt that great and the greeks didn't think bad about the egyptians because of their different beliefs. The Romans did such things, but I guess they were pretty unique in that (at least I never heard anything like that).

That's all true, but the BTS coded, unancient importance of religion at least secures, that the AIs go to war with each other and not passively sit there for aeons.

Villa Rustica is great, but developed towns should still be greater. Otherwise you just put villae everywhere and the roman landscapes looks just weird.

Looks weird and is weird. Why not apply the stone-scissors-paper principle on improvements? While the villa is better than the fully develped town in one regard, it isn't in the other. I'm afraid, BTS without changing the DLL is too limited, though, to work with. I could see towns giving additional trade routes, and villae none, and so fourth…

A fortress in the plains gives *considerably* less defense than any wood, not to mention wooden hill. That's too much difference. You don't need any fortresses as long as you have difficult terrain. Wood 50% ist way too much... I think it's vanilla. It's stupid nevertheless

If you get all the woodsmen promotions as attacker, it's like the woods protection for the defender has dissapeared almost. If I remeber correctly, terrain defense and fortress defense boni add. That's probably really way too much, fortress and woods. If you're Roman and in Northern Italy and you don't want war with the Gauls, you block all entry passes with forest fortresses, and no worries.

Historical inaccuracy: Christians did not end slavery, that is just a myth. They did not bother until the economic situation changed so much, that slaves were not important anymore. And that is AFTER your scenario.

That's also a myth.

 

[dispalor]

This solution may not seem perfect, but what it reliably does: You don't meet any hoplites in the days of the Roman Empire. They are so out of place in late game, that they must go obsolete earlier somehow. That hoplites "upgrade" to something obviously inferior, is odd – but consistent with what Polybios says. – In Total War Rome II, they offer Macedonian style phanlangites, who in later eras take the place of classical hoplites. How would you solve it?

Oh, so it wasn't a bug... well, what did the people surrounding Rome do? That's not my speciality, but I heard of some who tried to copy roman style.

But whatever you do, at least give them something they can work with. Now the greek player would be clever to not continuing research at some point, so that she can keep the strong units longer. Or not to upgrade the units. But that is something a human player would do and not an AI, so it feels more like cheating.

No, I'd say leave their units alone. Let it play out. Or give them some nice sword-and-shield-unit. Don't need to be as good as the romans.

Good city defenders is what they should be. Ranged attack makes them unique. And an armourless bowman is "cheap" to equip and train compared to a skilled heavy infantry man. – As of late players have to "pay for arrows" to balance archers out. I don't particularly like that, but when I read your comment, it's rather in support of that direction.

While everything is right what you say, its beside my point because I phrased it clumsily. They are not cheaper, they have less additional costs per unit. This is a game mechanic to control the ammount of units in the game. The additional costs, as far as I remember, are 10% for an average unit, for elite units even 25, 50 or 100% and for bowmen 2%. After 50 Bowmen their costs have doubled. After 50 Swordmen, their costs have sixtupled. While it's true that there are more melee-units in the game (what makes melee-units compared to bowmen cheaper in an overall-way), THEY die. Bowmen don't. They just sit in cities. You WILL have a lot more bowmen in the game.

That is one of two things. The other one is the fact, that they are too strong because they have 2 attacks as city defenders. They shoot arrows and they are incredibly well defenders, because of stunningly 100% city defense. Those are two great combat actions and that is a balance problem. You stand in front of a city and you get shot at. Okay. Then you attack and you got shot at again (well, they get high city defense values because they shoot at you). Then you stand in front of a city and get shot at you again.

Bad enough if there are just 1 or 2 bowmen in a city. But right now there is little else... They really tore me apart in a way that I didnt care to attack cities anymore.

I tried to solve that and made it worse, so I know it's not easy. Making them more expensive would be the right direction I guess. I'd say to make them even to other standard-units. That would be stunningly 10% per unit.

 

[mourndraken]

Is it not strange that we can build Temple of Horus without Egypt religion ?

 

[mourndraken]

Could there be an event or a way to allow us to produce some unique CIV units of the defeated and vanquished rivals ?
Give some more options for the mercenary post ?

 

[pie_at]

Is it not strange that we can build Temple of Horus without Egypt religion ?

ok, is noted.

Could there be an event or a way to allow us to produce some unique CIV units of the defeated and vanquished rivals ?
Give some more options for the mercenary post ?

Yes, I think of that all the time. That CIVs or hegemons get special units from their conquered cities or vassals. But I don't know how. You suggestion to use the mercenary post is a possibility....

 

[mourndraken]

Yes, I think of that all the time. That CIVs or hegemons get special units from their conquered cities or vassals. But I don't know how. You suggestion to use the mercenary post is a possibility....

These mercenaries might be available for a limited time ? Get those fighters before they fade away into the past ! Could it work when a civ is defeated, some or all unique units could become available for a global market and for all CIV ? They should not become exclusive units for just the victor. Some of those displaced people would want to continue the fight versus the conqueror.

 

[saddam_who_sane]

what does trigger slave revolts? they happen all the time when I play PAE, even if I have no slaves or slave market. Is it a bug? I thought slave revolts are triggered by having too many slaves in a city. sorry if someone reported about it before

 

[pie_at]

It can be the "old" BTS event, when using an early civic. With Thorgals suggestions, I dropped this event out of PAE V Patch 2? or 3? What version of PAE do you play?

 

[Hornakhtyotef]

Hi Pie,

I noticed, after playing three random maps on huge size, that the ivory resource never spawns anywhere. It is the same case for spices. While I can live with the absence of the latter, it saddens me ivory is never accessible because that disables all random games from having a Wonder Victory. The Status of Zeus requires ivory.

In my current game, I was so excited winning on IMM with Persia until I realize there was not a single ivory resource on the whole map (huge).

Maybe, this should be addressed as bug (?).

 

[saddam_who_sane]

It can be the "old" BTS event, when using an early civic. With Thorgals suggestions, I dropped this event out of PAE V Patch 2? or 3? What version of PAE do you play?

2015 april version

I'll try to reinstall. may be it'll help

 

[pie_at]

Hi Pie,

I noticed, after playing three random maps on huge size, that the ivory resource never spawns anywhere. It is the same case for spices. While I can live with the absence of the latter, it saddens me ivory is never accessible because that disables all random games from having a Wonder Victory. The Status of Zeus requires ivory.

In my current game, I was so excited winning on IMM with Persia until I realize there was not a single ivory resource on the whole map (huge).

Maybe, this should be addressed as bug (?).

this is strange. it's defined in the xml and should work with the BTS world creation.
but I can look at its settings..

2015 april version

this is the current version. strange...

 

[saddam_who_sane]

I dropped this event out of PAE V

No, this thing is not fixed, I suppose

 

[Thorik]

No, this thing is not fixed, I suppose

I get this event too.

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

Sea Peoples never land—the ships just wander around, getting hurt from travelling through the ocean. I noticed that they all have the ATTACK AI, so I switched one to ASSAULT_SEA. It then unloaded its units.

Changing the default AI of the ships in their UnitInfos.xml file should make it so that they actually disembark and attack.

 

[pie_at]

oh thanks.. but.. in XML they have UNITAI_ASSAULT_SEA

hm.. perhaps an error by adding them via python!

edit: damn, I found the mistake. happened by changing the code from another modder. I'll repair it again.

 

[pie_at]

Soon there will be a bugfix patch available for download. (next few days ... I hope)

 

[Allain[Rus]]

AI don't use governor units. All cities don't have governor, administrative buildings and walls. (I change "Cost = -1" on "Cost = 1"for Governor building.)

If we sell ours goods in ours cities, we get double prise. Example: we buy silver in ours city for 40 gold, and sell silver in the same city, we get 80 gold(40+40).

Sorry for my English.

 

[pie_at]

ah thx! I will have a look!

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

Are we supposed to be able to stack governors? The tooltip seems to indicate that you're replacing them, but if you settle additional governors, the effects just stack.