Suggestions for the next Civilization

NewGenX

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Sid Meier's Civilization 3 has come along way, but it still has a long way to go. The purpose of this thread is to suggest to the designers of Civ3 some improvements that should be a part of the game.

So come join in the discussion and submit your ideas for the next release of Civilization 3!
 
I will start off the improvement list with a feature that I feel could really improve the realism, strategy, appearance, and overall enjoyment of the game. An introduction of the feature follows:

The "city" is a key object in Civ3. It is one of the fundamental building blocks to a civilization's empire.

The city is:

1. A center of commerce, production, and population.
2. An extension to an empire's national borders and influence.
3. A foothold in unfamiliar territory.
4. A symbol of power and control.
5. A hallmark of a civilization's testimony to its own excellence.

Combined, cities make up the infrastructure of a civilization's empire. With so many important aspects of the city, shouldn't it deserve more focus? I for one, agree. So here is what I think should be improved:

One thing that concerned me about the city in the Civilization series (which didn't become evident until the release of Civ3) was the concrete confinement of a city's physical size on the game map. It was always limited to one square. In the first Civilization, you could build cities directly adjacent to another, but that feature was revoked in the subsequent generations of the game. In the real world, cities are not confined to set physical dimensions. Cities are expansive and inherently extend their borders as population increases.

In short, the city should not be confined to a single square on the game map, it should be allowed to expand to adjacent squares once it reaches certain population milestones. The square to which the city expands to can be either set automatically by the computer or chosen by the player. The act can be prompted by the advisor or done silently without acknowledgement by the player. Finally, the expansion can be optional; if the expansion act is denied, then the city size will be stagnated depending on the current technology available. Therefore cities in early eras will need to expand to adjacent squares in order to increase their population effectively and cities in later eras will be able to condense their population with the advent of higher capacity buildings. To be realistic to city infrastructure, cities must expand to a certain number of squares in order to condense their population in a particular city square. In other words, a city must grow "out" before it can grow "up." A city can expand to any number of available squares within the player's national borders. Unavailable squares include those occupied by other cities, mountains, ocean, etc.

City expansion can improve the strategy element of the game and introduce a new concept such as partial occupation where invading civs capture one city square at a time, allowing for different portions of a city to be controlled by different civs. (think East and West Berlin)

To follow up on how technology level affects city expansion and population density… as technology level increases, civilizations are allowed to increase a city's population density which allows the player to choose to grow a city "up" as opposed to "out", remembering that a city can only grow "up" a certain amount of levels before needing to grow "out". At beginning tech levels, cities will only have the option of expanding to adjacent squares, only after certain technologies are discovered, can a city increase a population point in a given city square.

The implementation of city expansion will obviously affect current rules of how a city produces its commerce, production, and food. Currently, one city square can work up to 21 squares (including the center square). A city can "see" 2 squares out from the center square. Cities gain commerce, production, and food by "working" these squares, but this is all elementary to us Civ veterans. With city expansion, this will need to change. The working range of a city will no longer be limited to 21 squares, but instead be dependant upon the actual square size of the city. A city can see (and therefore work) 2 squares out from each of its city squares. Once a city expands from one city square to two, the overall city view (and total squares available to be worked) increases. Cities will still produce commerce, production, and food in the same way, but with a few perks. First, commerce and production are gained by working the same squares as before but additional bonuses are given for working city-occupied squares with certain city improvements built. Food however, is not gained by working city occupied squares; instead it can only be produced by working unoccupied, irrigated, or farmed squares. (realism is achieved by not having food produced in occupied city squares, after all, how can land be worked for food if it's filled up with homes, shops, and factories!)

Since food can only be obtained through squares that are unoccupied by a city, then growing a city can pose a huge problem as farmland is constantly overrun by city squares (much as it is in real life). However, unlike in Civilization, a city in real life has a way of growing without working food in its vicinity; it is done through transportation and distribution. As another strategic element, farmland can be concentrated in key areas and harvested by farmers, the food can then be transported to any available city (whether it be by road, rail, sea, or air). This can really improve the playability of the game, by allowing island cities with little land available or cities surrounded by un-bountiful land (such as desert) to increase in population by being supplied by a main continent's farmland or other strategic food source. This also adds even more strategy by allowing food supply lines to truly be cut off by an enemy. You will finally be able to starve an empire without occupying all available land inside its territory as is the case now in current Civ versions.

Phew, that was a lot to cover. To summarize:

1. Make cities expansive as opposed to being confined to a single square.
2. Make city expansion dependent on technology level
3. Allow partial occupation of cities where each city square can be occupied by different nations separately from the entire city. Imagine the political and diplomatic challenges that would need to be overcome!
4. Make food workable only on unoccupied (non-city-inhabited) terrain and allow it to be transported through various networks (road, rail, sea, air) to cities that are available (connected to a food transportation network).

In conclusion:

The intricacies of implementing this feature are up to the design team and programmers, how they choose to incorporate it into the game is obviously their call. Furthermore, the city expansion feature and all the additional game elements that come with it are probably too extensive for an expansion pack (unfortunately), so most likely it will be saved for a Civ4 (or whatever other catchy name they decide to use). Hopefully this sparks an interest in the tireless Civilization development team (if one of them even happens to read this post). For all I know, Sid Meier or some other member of the team has already thought of this feature (or something of the like) and are just waiting for the right time to implement it.

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Comments are welcome, but please remember to provide your own ideas for new features to Civilization, as is the purpose of this thread. Also, let me know if there is any part to this post that you feel needs clarification and feel free to “piggy back” on this idea, add your own ideas to it. I think city expansion could be a truly deserving addition to the game.
 
Well, I've always thought it would be cool if you could move the planes and aerial means around freely and not just to attack. There are lots of other things that would be better.
 
cataphracts :)
 
I tell ya what I'd like to see next. I'd like to have the ability to divide your empire into sections: provinces, states, territories, colonies, etc. etc., just to somewhat keep everything neatly classifieded and ordered.

So say you've got a fair number of cities, and you've just discovered the proper technological improvement. Half of your empire is on one continent, and the rest on another. I'd love for the ability to divide the two, into two different countries, or provinces, whatever, so that each can deal with it's own continental issues, but still answer to the same commonwealth. Just an idea.

Something else that would be fun to watch, would be having one part of your divided empire rebel against the commonwealth. So say that the people are depleased with the way your running things. One section of the empire could form it's own rebel milita, and try to take over.

Again, just an idea. Just came to me now, so I haven't really thought it through :p.
 
MrStuff, a feature along the lines of having separate countries of your empire running themselves would be an excellent improvement to realism. Having historical occurances such as the American Revolution happen in your own random game could be a lot of fun. Great idea!
 
1. Make cities expansive as opposed to being confined to a single square.
I believe the spirit of this has already been incorporated in the concept of city support squares. Something like pollution can affect a city by hitting any number of tiles around it.
2. Make city expansion dependent on technology level
Population expansion is dependent upon aqueducts and hospitals, with granaries and harbors optional. Border expansion is contigent upon temples, colosseums, cathedrals, libraries, universities and wonders. All these improvements have requisite technologies before you're allowed to build them.
3. Allow partial occupation of cities where each city square can be occupied by different nations separately from the entire city. Imagine the political and diplomatic challenges that would need to be overcome!
Unless you couple this addition with the deletion of culture flipping, it would become nothing more than an annoying, irrelevant complication.
4. Make food workable only on unoccupied (non-city-inhabited) terrain and allow it to be transported through various networks (road, rail, sea, air) to cities that are available (connected to a food transportation network).
This idea I do agree with, but only after the advent of railroad.
 
Mix the vastness of Civ2, the boundaries (And the boundary rules) of Alpha Centauri (and diplomacy), and the interface of Civ3. Perfect game. Add anything else as needed (NO WACKY COMBAT PLEASE).
 
Loads more wonders...it amazes me that on the front of my PTW box you can see the Statue of Liberty and the Arc de Triomphe yet they were absent from the game.
 
In the editor, it should be possible to select for the random generation of only certain types of terrain. Ie, you should be able to elect to create a random map with no desert, say.

Also, what about including a lot of spare units on the cd.

Also, breakaway civs: when a city goes into revolt, there should be a chance it will form a new civ. There could be a new civ list, like a leader list or city name list.

Also, it should be possible to make multiple techs prerequisite for a unit, or to make a building prereqisite for a unit.

Also, it would be really great to have supply lines. Tanks can't move unless they are within one move of an unbroken connection to oil, for example.

Get rid of the palace view and the city view for that matter.

Get rid of the infinite railroad speed. 10 times move should be adequate.
The workable squares around a city should be related to technology, not frozen at a certain distance. With railroads, you should get one more square.

Tactical and strategic time scales. It didn't take Hannibal 200 years to move his Army from Carthage to Rome, but it would in Civ3. I understand that everything is not to scale, like cities, terrain, and units all being different scales, and that the strategic moves shown as tactical represent a telescoping, but it would be
nice if, like, once a war started, you could play it out in the actual amount of time it would take to do things. Ie, you are in ancient times, and on the strategic level, each turn is 20 years. You get in a war, and you go into a mode where each move is a month. Every 240 turns, you get to do all the strategic stuff, like build cities, develop land, research technologies, build units, and so on.
But in the meantime, all you can do is fight the war with the units you have. It would take some messing with to make it work right.

Also, how about Villages. Villages are built like outposts, but function like little cities which claim and work only one square of land. Or hordes, which are units that functiion like cities, but are mobile and cannot build improvements. They simply utilize the 9 squares around whatever square they happen to be in or less if near someones cultural boundaries.

How about having barbarians upgrade to civilizations if they stay around long enough?

Also, how about an option to let the AI know they can use some units as land transports. If I'm down to that idea, I must be out.
 
I'd like to see a deeper economy system...like if one civ trades a lot their currency becomes worth more in trades.

Just like the oil standard is based off the US dollar it makes the us economy better becaue of this.

I'm not sure how something like this could be implemented in the game, but some beyond basic trade is more than welcome.
 
One more idea. A full visibility option like in Age of Empires, so if you want you can have no fog of war and watch all the AI moves.
 
Once programmers and processor speeds can handle it, GET OFF THE GRID! Be able to draw your own roads, grow cities organically based on the local geography, and move with complete freedom. It would be your own little world, not just a graphic representation of one.
 
Improvements for Civ4:

A) The Terrain:
1) Rivers act like roads, when steam power becomes available then rivers act like railroads
2) Surroundings should affect unit health. If I station a bunch of Infantry in a Tundra for a very long time, should they not get at least a little bit damaged?

B) Warfare
1) Armies need a definite boost. How about the following:
. Must follow roads, this represents the "supply line" If they are not connected to a friendly city by a road then each turn they have a 50% chance of losing 1 bar of health
. Much more powerful. How about the following equation to find unit strength: (sum of units' strengths) x .8 (80%) = Strength of army. That way they would not be TOO overpowered, but would make armies a definite fighting force.
2) This was proposed by someone else and I would def. like to see it: Damage modifiers. Why should a machine gunner be just as good against an infantryman as he is against a tank?

C) Empire
1) Cities need to encompass mulitple tiles as they grow, possibly even combining into other cities (Brooklyn and Manhattan, for example)
2) Cities should be able to support each other. Why should I be forced to watch one city starve whilst another has too much food in its stores! There should be like a "national granary" of some sort.
3) Taxation needs a revamp. I don't want those stupid tax collectors, but rather a whole menu that has various things like tariffs and internal taxes adjustable by a scroll bar with the reverse effect of the happiness meter.
4) Public Services need to be added. I'm talking having to pay to keep Universities, Libraries, and such afloat.

D) Government & People
1) Gov-specific units. These units are the byproduct of a revolution, (but all special units of the prior gov. are wiped out) Then every X amount of turns (perhaps dependent on how well your gov is doing popularity-wise), your palace will produce one of these units. Each unit also has a special ability. How about the following:
. Despotism -- Personal Guard: 5.4.2 -- Same effect as 3 units for purposes of military police
. Monarchy -- Lord: 6.4.3 -- ?
. Republic -- ?
. Communism -- Proletarian Guard: 9.9.2 -- Double Shield output for the city the Proletarian guard is stationed in
. Fascism -- SS: 9.9.2 -- Each resisistor, once quelled, is replaced by a content citizen of your civilization
. Democracy -- Special Forces: 9.9.2 -- Can infiltrate a city and cause civil disorder there
NOTE: All of these units are produced as regulars, with a +2 Health Bar Increase
2) Senate/Congress needs to be reinstated. The Senate would be in every single government except Despotism (and would have appropriate names of course, i.e. the Communists getting the Worker's International Congress), but with varying degrees of difficulty to override. Normally, you would have to go through the Senate before doing anything major (such as a major tax hike or going to war) but you do have the option to override the Senate. If you do this, then the following happens:
If your people are largely happy or content, then you can proceed with your plan, but if your people have enough unhappy faces, then disorder may break out and your actions are repealed and everything is set back to normal. Now, various modifiers would be applied depending on gov. type (Monarchy and Communism having the easiest way to override the Senate)

Well, that's all I can think of right now!
 
Pirate and Mr. Cackle --- Excellent posts!

superslug --- Rather than post your own new idea, you chose to critique my own. If you need more clarification on the subject, refer to the first two lines under paragraph C) in Mr. Cackle's post, those sentences pretty much sum up my "city expansion" idea. I merely provided a deeper explanation on how to make that idea work.

Keep those ideas coming folks!
 
Addition to my Section B) Warfare:

3) How about adding sneak attacks and such? Say a foolish civ rushes headlong into my territory, making a wedge of captured cities within my civ. I think a cool feature to implement would be a bonus modifier if I attacked from "behind" or, in other words, if I attacked from the opposite direction the defender is facing, i would get a bonus modifier.

Tholish -- I think supply lines for EVERY single unit would be too cumbersome and annoying, although I do think that armies (as I said before) should definitely need supply lines.

Edit> Thought of yet another idea whilst remembering Ultimate Risk the PC Game:

Have an option to have simultaneous play. All moves by all players would be performed at the same time, with all the players unaware of what moves have been made by other civs. In other words, everything appears to be unchanged, until everyone finishes their moves, then all the players can see the updated view. Diplomacy would be resolved after the view has been updated.
 
have you guys played rise of nations? it sounds like what you want is pretty much a turn based RoN...
 
@ Tholish:

You can remove the City Screen when you pry it from my cold dead hadns.
 
Originally posted by NewGenX
superslug --- Rather than post your own new idea, you chose to critique my own. If you need more clarification on the subject, refer to the first two lines under paragraph C) in Mr. Cackle's post, those sentences pretty much sum up my "city expansion" idea. I merely provided a deeper explanation on how to make that idea work.

There's hundreds of 'suggestion box' threads sitting in General Discussions. If ideas are going to merit true consideration, then discussion is in order, where dissenting opinions are just as crucial as any other. The developers don't add or change things without there having been thorough debate about it.

In regards to posting my own ideas, I was a beta tester for Conquests. The powers that be heard what I have to say...
 
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