Superheroes!

[Patine]

That's often the case with Superheroes in general though, and ends up being a "weakness" (from the villains' perspective) that they all share and can all be manipulated by. One of the foundational premises of Batman is that he catches the villains causing deaths, crime, hijinks and mayhem... puts them in Arkham, where they inevitably escape, cause more deaths, crime, hijinx and mayhem, which necessitates him catching them again and putting them back in Arkham... rinse repeat.

If he'd just kill them he'd be retired by now, married with kids in a beautiful, crime free, utopian Gotham City...

But where's the fun in that?

I remember in that old '60's Spiderman cartoon with the iconic theme-song, the psychodelic sky, and rehashed stock animation (roughly co-terminously running in time period to the Adam West Batman series, the early seasons of Doctor Who, and the Original Series of Star Trek), there were a number of episodes which begam in a prison where several villains defeated in recent episodes (Elektro was almost always one) were broken free by a mastermind villain (Dr. Noah Body, the Lizard, or Mysterio, typically, and in exchange, they had to be henchmen in the latest plot - which fortunately meant revenge on Spider-Man.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Zod - This 'super man' is nothing of the kind. I've discovered his weakness. He cares. He cares for these Earth people.
Ursa - Like pets?
Zod - I suppose so.

Best supervillain line ever?

 

[EgonSpengler]

I read this morning that Charlie Cox wants Daredevil to team up with Iron Man in the MCU. Setting aside for a moment that Iron Man is dead, that's wrong. Sorry, Charlie, I know Matt's your character, but I have to pull my "long-time fan" card: If Matt is going to team up with an Avenger, it has to be Natasha/Black Widow. First, it's lore-friendly: Matt and Natasha had a nice relationship during the Frank Miller & Klaus Janson run in the '80s, and Natasha would have been a fantastic choice for a grittier, hand-to-hand show in the vein of the Netflix series. Also, Natasha deserves to get [happy]. She never got any during the Disney-movie Avengers run. There she was, looking like she looks and literally surrounded by men and there's nothin' going on. Meanwhile, the folks over in the Netflix shows were literally breaking the furniture. We already know that Matt likes 'em a little wild, and Natasha's power-set works better in conjunction with his. I don't think either of them would upstage the other. We saw a power disparity between Matt and Jen in She-Hulk, when they went into the villains' den and she sort of cleaned up. What would Daredevil even do if he was teamed up with Iron Man? (Now that I think about it, She-Hulk and Iron Man could be a fun duo. Tatiana Maslany and Robert Downey Jr would have some good banter, in addition to their powers being in the same league.)

 

[Cutlass]

This is similar to characters who are supposed to be really smart. My biggest gripe with Tony Stark and Bruce Banner is that they're supposed to be two of the smartest people in the world, but they almost never solve problems with their intellect. They're both witty, but not smart. It's a tough challenge, we have to admit. Writing a character who's supposed to be smarter than the writer has to be challenging. Writing a character who's supposed to be smarter than just about everybody must be all but impossible. Characters like Sherlock Holmes, and Holmes-like characters like Dr. House and Det. Goren in Law & Order: Criminal Intent usually come off like walking encyclopedias, who seem to have amazing recall of all sorts of facts. Often times, social awkwardness is used as a shorthand for incredibly smart characters. I've just started Bones in the last week. A lot of super-powers can be portrayed visually, especially physical powers like super-strength or fighting abilities, but when a character's super-power is their mind, the writer needs to show the character being smart or inventing creative solutions. That's got to be tough to do.

In The Batman with Patterson, Batty is shown to be smart in some of the scenes, as he's working out the Riddler's riddles on the fly from just a few clues. But I don't think that's what many people took from the movie as a whole.

One of the things that was always good about Superman was despite his immense power, he had four straightforward, infallible, counters. Number one was kryptonite, obviously, in all its forms, so you could always kill him, injure him, or take away his powers (depending on plot needs); two was him not being able to see through lead, which allowed things to be completely hidden from him, so you could surprise/booby trap him (usually with kryptonite);

Three was more of a soft counter... for all his powers and strength, Superman actually can't fight... he had no martial arts ability whatsoever. He gets away with that, generally, because since he so strong, fast and mostly invulnerable, and with all those extra powers, he doesn't really need great fighting techniques, however, when he faces opponents who match his strength, with combat training, they mop the floor with him. The fourth vulnerability he has is his love for Lois, which is always available as a collateral way to attack him.

In the comics version of The Dark Knight they have a Superman who can fight. He was just holding back.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Zod - This 'super man' is nothing of the kind. I've discovered his weakness. He cares. He cares for these Earth people.
Ursa - Like pets?
Zod - I suppose so.

Best supervillain line ever?

You forgot "actually" as in "He actually cares for these... Earth people."

Zod says it with a hint of incredulity that underscores how ridiculous he thinks Superman's sentiment is. Then Ursa puts a finer point on it, by responding to Zod's "I suppose so" with her own insult "Sentimental idiot" directed at Superman.

 

[Cutlass]

I'm rewatching Loki S2. I know there's a lot of mixed and not positive opinion of it. But this scene, holy fudge is it well done and powerful.

 

[RobAnybody]

You forgot "actually" as in "He actually cares for these... Earth people."

Zod says it with a hint of incredulity that underscores how ridiculous he thinks Superman's sentiment is. Then Ursa puts a finer point on it, by responding to Zod's "I suppose so" with her own insult "Sentimental idiot" directed at Superman.

I mean, if we're talking best supervillain line ever, I think it's right there in Sommerswerd's sig (which unfortunately my quote doesn't contain! - everyone scroll up & read a Sommer post!!).

 

[EgonSpengler]

I went out for a beer with a friend over the long weekend, and played a quick round of "Avengers assemble" (e.g. pick your own team of MCU heroes). We went with 5 each, but that was arbitrary. You could do more, but I feel like more than 7 starts to get unwieldy. Depends on the villain and the storyline you're envisioning, I suppose. I didn't get that far. I thought about who the villain would be, for my team. I tried to think of a villain from the comics who hasn't been seen in the movies yet, but I didn't come up with anyone good.

I went with:
War Machine / Don Cheadle as my team leader. One of the highlights of Secret Invasion (a low bar, I know) was the face-off between Rhodey and Fury. I was reminded that, oh yeah, Don Cheadle is actually a fine actor.
Monica Rambeau / Teyonah Parris. I haven't seen The Marvels yet, so I don't know where that movie has left her (no spoilers, please - I do plan to watch it eventually). I don't even know which of the myriad codenames from the comics they went with. So I'm kind of combining the bit of Monica we got in WandaVision with what I remember about her from the comics. In addition, I just saw Parris in They Cloned Tyrone, so I'm kinda digging her, and I think she can do some low-key comedy (Jaime Foxx was carrying most of the comedy in that movie, but Parris had her moments).
She-Hulk/Tatiana Maslany. I suppose I like Maslany more for Orphan Black than for She-Hulk, but I did like She-Hulk.
Ant-Man & The Wasp / Paul Rudd & Evangeline Lilly. I think the comedic elements of the classic Avengers lineup were crucial, and I want my team to be as light-hearted. Rudd is the only real comedian here, imo, but Cheadle, Parris and Maslany can all do comedy (anybody here see Cheadle in Talk to Me? - obviously that character is 180 degrees away from Rhodey, but it shows that he can do comedy), and Lilly playing the stone-faced Hope against Rudd's goofball Scott seems to work, even in an otherwise bad movie. EDIT: Now that I'm thinking about it, I think one of the problems I had with Quantumania was that Rudd and Lilly didn't have enough scenes together.

I think my friend had seen several of the movies, up through Endgame, but since then had only seen Wakanda Forever. So she picked Thor (I think the only character whose name she could remember without resorting to looking up MCU characters on her phone, which was a bridge too far), "the underwater guy in the second Black Panther", and "Sebastian Stan." I pointed out that she was just picking a team of hot guys - which I thought was completely valid - but then she pivoted to "the bald woman in Black Panther - she kicked a lot of [butt]" and "Scarlett Johansson", who she's a fan of, in general. I pointed out that there were a couple of bald women who kicked [butt] in Black Panther, and it took us a minute to figure out that she meant Okoye. I also pointed out that Scarlett Johansson is dead in the MCU, but she was not dissuaded. I suggested she could take Florence Pugh instead, but she brushed me off, which ruffled my feathers and we debated Florence Pugh's merits for a moment; I'm a big Pugh guy, my friend could take her or leave her, I guess - not a hater, but she likes Johansson.

So her team was:
Thor / Chris Hemsworth
Prince Namor / Tenoch Huerta
The Winter Soldier / Sebastian Stan
Okoye / Danai Gurira
The Black Widow / Scarlett Johansson

Not a bad lineup, really. A little imbalanced in terms of power, but no more so than the original Avengers were. I asked her who the team leader would be, and she said "eh" and went to the ladies room. I do like the idea of Thor and Namor on a team together, maybe butting heads a little over who's stronger or who should be the leader of the team. EDIT: Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, Thor and Namor would butt heads for a bit, then Okoye would roll her eyes and say something like "oh, for God's sake" in Wakandan and start giving orders, and then she'd be the team leader.


What about you?

 

[EgonSpengler]

You could do the original Defenders with existing MCU cast & characters:

Dr. Strange / Benedict Cumberbatch
Prince Namor / Tenoch Huerta
The Hulk / Mark Ruffalo
Valkyrie / Tessa Thompson

That's not bad. I'd watch that. No idea how you'd bring them all together, though. None of those characters have any connection to one another, at present.

Nighthawk and the Silver Surfer have never appeared in the MCU. The Silver Surfer clearly belongs with the Fantastic Four, even though he's an early member of The Defenders. There are rumors he (or she, or they) will appear in Matt Shakman's movie. I saw somewhere that Anya Taylor Joy's name was floating around, but I couldn't tell if that was legit or just nerds being nerds. But I think Nighthawk was only ever closely associated with the Defenders, so one could cast that character as one sees fit.

Damon Hellstrom / Son of Satan technically appeared in the Hulu show Hellstrom, but I never saw it and I think it's one of the shows Marvel-Disney pretends never happened. No idea if it was any good. I'm not sure anyone watched it.
Patsy Walker / Hellcat was in Jessica Jones, played by Rachael Taylor and going by "Trish." She was never called 'Hellcat', but she did get her powers in season 3. And it turns out Hellcat didn't join the Defenders until issue #44. For some reason, I thought she was one of the originals.
Gargoyle has also never appeared in the MCU. Like Hellcat, I thought he was one of the core members of the group, but he didn't join until issue #94.
I also would have bet money that Ghost Rider was an early Defender, but I read now that he didn't join until The Secret Defenders in 1993. Back in the '70s, Ghost Rider was a member of The Champions, a short-lived comic that nobody misses. Gabriel Luna played Robbie Reyes / Ghost Rider in Agents of SHIELD, and I thought he did a nice job (if you can't place him, Luna has since played the villain in Terminator: Dark Fate and Pedro Pascal's younger brother in The Last of Us - not to be confused with Diego Luna from Andor).

 

[Cutlass]

I rewatched Loki s2. I think doing it in a tighter time frame made it a great deal more coherent overall.

Time travel stories are hard to tell. And are rarely done well. The basic theme of the season is not an original one. Although who knows how many times it's been told. There's an old Spiderman/X-Men crossover series which did it.

Basically, because Loki is god-ish, and has magic, when everything is coming apart in the time stream, he can learn to use his powers to travel and manipulate parts of it.

 

[Cutlass]

Netflix has all the recentish DC comics movies now.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I don't even know which of the myriad codenames from the comics they went with.

Without spoilering... funny you mention that... cause they address exactly that, in such an obnoxious, on-the-nose way, that well... you'll see... let me know what you think when you do.

 

[Patine]

You could do the original Defenders with existing MCU cast & characters:

Dr. Strange / Benedict Cumberbatch
Prince Namor / Tenoch Huerta
The Hulk / Mark Ruffalo
Valkyrie / Tessa Thompson

That's not bad. I'd watch that. No idea how you'd bring them all together, though. None of those characters have any connection to one another, at present.

Nighthawk and the Silver Surfer have never appeared in the MCU. The Silver Surfer clearly belongs with the Fantastic Four, even though he's an early member of The Defenders. There are rumors he (or she, or they) will appear in Matt Shakman's movie. I saw somewhere that Anya Taylor Joy's name was floating around, but I couldn't tell if that was legit or just nerds being nerds. But I think Nighthawk was only ever closely associated with the Defenders, so one could cast that character as one sees fit.

Damon Hellstrom / Son of Satan technically appeared in the Hulu show Hellstrom, but I never saw it and I think it's one of the shows Marvel-Disney pretends never happened. No idea if it was any good. I'm not sure anyone watched it.
Patsy Walker / Hellcat was in Jessica Jones, played by Rachael Taylor and going by "Trish." She was never called 'Hellcat', but she did get her powers in season 3. And it turns out Hellcat didn't join the Defenders until issue #44. For some reason, I thought she was one of the originals.
Gargoyle has also never appeared in the MCU. Like Hellcat, I thought he was one of the core members of the group, but he didn't join until issue #94.
I also would have bet money that Ghost Rider was an early Defender, but I read now that he didn't join until The Secret Defenders in 1993. Back in the '70s, Ghost Rider was a member of The Champions, a short-lived comic that nobody misses. Gabriel Luna played Robbie Reyes / Ghost Rider in Agents of SHIELD, and I thought he did a nice job (if you can't place him, Luna has since played the villain in Terminator: Dark Fate and Pedro Pascal's younger brother in The Last of Us - not to be confused with Diego Luna from Andor).

The appearance by the Silver Surfer in Fox 21's second Fantastic Four movie was a pretty pitiful potrayal and did him absolutely no justice.

 

[EgonSpengler]

The appearance by the Silver Surfer in Fox 21's second Fantastic Four movie was a pretty pitiful potrayal and did him absolutely no justice.

Agreed. The only thing those movies got right, imo, was Johnny Storm. I would say the next FF movie can only be an improvement, except that they already tried it again, and I'm told the 2015 Fantastic Four wasn't much better than the 2005 Fantastic Four (I still haven't seen the 2015 movie).

 

[Kaitzilla]

Not a lot of good news here.

Crisis at Marvel: Jonathan Majors Back-Up Plans, ‘The Marvels’ Reshoots, Reviving Original Avengers and More Issues Revealed

Marvel has enjoyed a nearly uninterrupted string of hits ever since it started independently producing its movies with 2008’s “Iron Man.”

variety.com

Jonathan Majors has been convicted.

Jonathan Majors Guilty of Harassment and Assault

A Manhattan jury found Jonathan Majors guilty on Monday of two misdemeanor counts of harassment and assault, but acquitted him on two other counts.

variety.com

 

[Synobun]

Kang arc sucks. Burn it all down and move on.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Jonathan Majors has been convicted.

Jonathan Majors Guilty of Harassment and Assault

A Manhattan jury found Jonathan Majors guilty on Monday of two misdemeanor counts of harassment and assault, but acquitted him on two other counts.

variety.com

And he's been formally booted by Marvel/Disney.

Kang arc sucks. Burn it all down and move on.

I agree that it's sucked so far, but I don't think it's too late to steer the ocean-liner in a different direction. If they can make a good movie with Kang, they should do that. If they can do a good movie with someone else, then they should do that instead.

I see 3 or 4 legitimate options for them, without even having to think about it very hard:

• They could recast Kang. While I was watching Loki, something Ravonna Renslayer said made me think she could have been a Kang variant. I can't remember what it was, now. And who would hate John Boyega, Lakeith Stanfield, Leslie Odom Jr or Sope Dirisu as a new Kang? They could almost reach into a sack and pull a promising 30-something Black actor. Paapa Essiedu. Edi Gathegi. Theo Ogundipe. (Actually, Gathegi is playing Mister Terrific in Superman: Legacy, which probably means he's tied up for a while.) The former would give them the chance to tie Kang even more tightly into Loki. With the latter, they wouldn't really have to change a thing, they could declare him to be a variant.
• They could back up the Brinks truck to Elizabeth Olsen's house and do a reverse-House of M. I thought that might've been what they were doing with WandaVision, and nothing they've done since eliminates it as a possibility. I can't remember if the MCU has introduced the concept of "Nexus Beings", but iirc, Wanda was one in the comics. Boom. Mutants.
• They could do a story with The Beyonder or Doctor Doom. The latter would require pushing that movie back to after Fantastic Four, but at this point, they might want the extra time to sort themselves out. They haven't formally announced that Doom will be in the first Fantastic Four movie - and if it were me, I would save him for the 2nd movie - but if they wanted to, they could set FF entirely in an alternate universe and use that to set up Scret Wars. Heck, y'know who another "Nexus Being" is..? Franklin Richards.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I see on the web this morning that John Boyega is shooting down the idea of him replacing Jonathan Majors as Kang. Am I being too cynical in thinking "yeah, but I bet he hasn't seen how many zeros would be on that check"?

I was also thinking that anybody who stars in these movies would be getting a Golden Ticket if the movies land. But, then, has that really been true for the rest of the MCU actors? I guess I'm not sure. I certainly can't say they're all batting 1.000, but they've had their share of successes since being in the Avengers movies. I guess I don't know whether they've been able to choose their projects. Maybe Chris Hemsworth and Elizabeth Olsen and Tom Holland have been doing exactly what they've wanted to do, since Endgame. Lessons in Chemistry was the best thing Brie Larson has done in years, but I don't know if she got that off the back of Captain Marvel or if she would have gotten it anyway. I feel like she might've.

I'm reading that Charlize Theron was a strong candidate to play Carol Danvers before Larson got it. That's certainly an interesting notion. I might have liked Theron in the role better, but that would probably have meant we wouldn't have gotten Atomic Blonde (2017), and I'm not willing to make that trade.

 

[EgonSpengler]

• They could do a story with The Beyonder or Doctor Doom. The latter would require pushing that movie back to after Fantastic Four, but at this point, they might want the extra time to sort themselves out. They haven't formally announced that Doom will be in the first Fantastic Four movie - and if it were me, I would save him for the 2nd movie - but if they wanted to, they could set FF entirely in an alternate universe and use that to set up Scret Wars. Heck, y'know who another "Nexus Being" is..? Franklin Richards.

Oh, it turns out Fantastic Four was already scheduled to come out before the Kang movies, so that point's moot. Before recent events transpired, it was going to be FF in 2025, Kang Dynasty in 2026, and Secret Wars in 2027. They've retitled the 2026 film Avengers 5, which must be a working title, but suggests they may be moving away from Kang rather than recasting him. I think Secret Wars is still called Secret Wars, for now. They're still in pre-production on FF, so they could probably still rewrite that movie, if doing so helps set up the later movies (e.g. make Doom the focal point of Secret Wars).

 

[Synobun]

I see on the web this morning that John Boyega is shooting down the idea of him replacing Jonathan Majors as Kang. Am I being too cynical in thinking "yeah, but I bet he hasn't seen how many zeros would be on that check"?

I don't think Boyega is interested in doing anything Disney for a long, long time.