Taking Kyoto

[blasto]

Is it normal to have to take over most of the map to have the resources to beat the Shogun’s forces? I started as the Chasokabe and quickly took over the little starting island at the south side of Japan. Then I crossed over and took the land bridge to the main land and then fairly quickly took 4-5 provinces that effectively allowed me to cut the main island in half with land in my control. Then I spent a couple years gathering forces right up to what I could afford to keep and then attacked Kyoto. At this point my forces were four full stacks with generals and two smaller stacks for reinforcements. The shogun had 2 giant stacks, but only one in the fort which I threw all 6 of my stacks at on the same turn that I declared war and it seems like I didn’t even come close to beating them.

So I reloaded to the save right before I attacked and then proceeded to do a blitzkrieg and clear out the rest of the island to the east. And it was a blitzkrieg by all definition.. that’s how large my forces were compared to the rest of the AI, but barely made a dent against Kyoto.

I would also like to know how the Shogun got such a massive force… he had about twice the units in his stacks… how do you get to have that many units?

 

[Maniacal]

I have absolutely no idea as I have not played Shogun besides the demo, but seeing as how in vanilla RomeTW the city of Rome was its own faction with as a super strong army, this wouldn't surprise me. The Shogun is probably cheating.

 

[blasto]

I have absolutely no idea as I have not played Shogun besides the demo, but seeing as how in vanilla RomeTW the city of Rome was its own faction with as a super strong army, this wouldn't surprise me. The Shogun is probably cheating.

Ah, the ol' cheating AI ploy..

 

[Kan' Sharuminar]

Well, taking Kyoto is supposed to be part of the endgame of the campaign, by which point you should be one of the most powerful clans. It would be a bit disappointing if you sent your six stacks of armies at the Emperor and found it defended by a few peasants with pointy sticks.

So yeah, cheating is probably involved there, but it's an acceptable sort.

 

[Joecoolyo]

My advice:

Don't assault directly, wait for them to sally out. If you're any good at Total War, a decent sized stack should be all that's needed to take out he main force. Then, if there's any left overs, just autoresolve the rest of the siege, and BAM, you've got Kyoto.

That's how I did it in my Date game. Then again, I was playing on Normal...

 

[blasto]

Thanks for the tips. I am playing on normal... and now I do think that the AI cheats... at least for the Shogun. I've played through 3 games, and I'm able to take them once I own about half the map. But the Shogun's stacks are always worth 2-3 of my own, even with equal ranking members. This is using autoresolve.

My second game I tried to take them as soon as I bordered Kyoto (everytime I reach this phase, the Shogun is always down to a single province) because I believed that I had an overwhelming force.

I have tried twice to lure them out, but he likes to sit tight. After a few turns, I get impatient. Especially when I think I'm holding the superior force the whole time.

 

[Maniacal]

This is using autoresolve.

Well there's your problem right there! Autoresolve is NOT going to win you any big battles or if it does it will find a way to send in your siege weapons to fight in melee and every unit will have huge casualties.

 

[Joecoolyo]

Thanks for the tips. I am playing on normal... and now I do think that the AI cheats... at least for the Shogun. I've played through 3 games, and I'm able to take them once I own about half the map. But the Shogun's stacks are always worth 2-3 of my own, even with equal ranking members. This is using autoresolve.

My second game I tried to take them as soon as I bordered Kyoto (everytime I reach this phase, the Shogun is always down to a single province) because I believed that I had an overwhelming force.

I have tried twice to lure them out, but he likes to sit tight. After a few turns, I get impatient. Especially when I think I'm holding the superior force the whole time.

Couple things:

1) Only autoresolve is the odds are extremely in your favor, like more than 70%, if you do on less, you're most likely going to either lose the battle, or win with extreme causalities

2) The Ashikaga Shogunate never has more than one province, but once realm divide happens, I believe they gain an extra stack to protect themselves (note: I am not sure about this, but in all the games I've played, it seems like that's happened)

3) For the love of god NEVER assault Kyoto directly! NEVER EVER EVER. Not with autoresolve, and especially not with manual fighting! I tried it once, and all my units routed before even making it to the walls. It looked like a botched D-Day.

So be patient, and wait for them to come out. By doing that, you get the bonus of: 1) Being the defender in an open plain, and 2) The enemy will take more losses the more he waits out int he castle, so you're going to be dealing with a weaker force the longer you wait

Hope this helps

 

[Elta]

The Shogun defends with massive amounts of Samurai Archers.

If you must attack it, hit it with Niginata Samurai, they have high armor so they can are more arrow resistant.

As everyone else said, don't auto resolve.

Make them sally if feasible.

 

[Yeekim]

Umm... I just won my second campaign on Legendary and I pretty much exclusively autoresolved everything but the battles where I was siege defender, b/c I suck at playing battles w/o minimap and being unable to pause to command my units.

3 stacks of Ashigaru are stronger (and cheaper!) than a single stack of Samurai.
And given how fast they replenish, casualties are a non-issue as long as you don't lose entire unit.

 

[aronnax]

But there is a minimap and a pause button?

I would try to starve them out (though not through winter) have plenty of replacement armies nearby.
When assaulting the castle, assault from several fronts. This will split their forces. Try and overwhelm one side and breach the walls, entering the castle grounds.

 

[Yeekim]

But there is a minimap and a pause button?

Playing Legendary, there is no minimap and you can't do anything when you pause the battle. Also, you can't reload if you screw up.