Tarot: Land of Arcana (WIP)

[Gray Wolf]

4. I don't see the tie-in for the Book of Revelation and the Tarot deck (with the exception of certain imagery). Doesn't mean it's not a good idea; I merely fail to see the connection.

Tarot cards all have a divine and other-worldly feeling to them. And several of the card images relate to Revelations.

For example, the World card shows 4 images described in Revelations 4:7.

The four figures in the corners of the card are also referenced in the Book of Revelation, 4:7, where the throne of God is described: "And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle."

The Judgment card shows an Angel blowing a Trumpet...which is a description of Judgment Day in Revelations.

The Hierophant card is basically a Pope card. So the Tarot is pretty religious in nature.

And The Devil card represents the Devil who is definitely mentioned in Revelations.

Anyway, I almost took the Space Victory out of the game altogether but I thought the Apocalypse would be fun.

Also, the way I see it. Either you go for a (1) Diplomatic Victory, (2) Conquer the World, or (3) Pray to God because the world is too evil which leads to the Apocalypse. The lamb of God is the only one worthy enough to open the Book of Seals... and he will eventually do so to set the world right. So let it be written, so let it be done!

What is interesting to me is how all 3 are related.

I'm using the World card as the United Nations. And the issue is whether you can make peace when the Devil is powerful and is controlling all 4 corners of the World.

Also, the Apocalypse parts include the 4 horseman of the Apocalypse (Seals 1-4). And so the issue is whether you can keep the faith and eventually sit at the alter before God along with the Saints.

And the 4 horseman are also units that each suit can produce from Small Wonders to help them conquer the world. The issue is whether you can conquer the world and get away with it. Or will God intervene?

Anyway, while you are playing the game, you should get the feeling that something is ominous and mysterious and you don't know what is going to happen. So it should be fun.

Of course, I'm going to end up spending over 6 months making this game and then no one will ever download it and play it!

So I guess the game is mostly for myself...

 

[Gray Wolf]

5. I recommend eight suits instead of four: bear with me. Four players seems less than ideal, and eight is a standard multiplayer limit. More importantly, though, is that four players represent the inverted or reversed aspect of each suit and value. Remember that each card has two meanings, depending on whether it is upright or upside-down.

I'm not sure how many civs people usually play with...but I usually only play with 6. And usually I only care about 3 or 4 of them. For example, I usually just want to see France, Germany, and Japan. That's it. A simplified World War 2. And I'll give the French a couple of English and American type units and be completely happy playing the game.

Tarot wouldn't really be Tarot if it had more than 4 suits. And one thing that appealed to me about making this mod was that I only needed to deal with 4 civs... which is much simpler to make.

Also, once I get one version working, I'll probably copy the .biq file and tweak it so that one of the civs is more Russian or more Chinese or something like that... so it wouldn't take long to make a bunch of variations of the .biq file.

You have a good point about the cards having 2 meanings based on whether they are upright or upside-down ... but it is still only 4 suits, not 8. I think it would be confusing to have 8 civilizations using the 4 suits somehow.

That's it for now. I'm sure I'll say more on this.

Hey thanks for putting something here to talk about. And feel free to disagree or talk with me about anything.

Also, feel free to borrow freely from my MagePunk scenario (work in progress) which is a fantasy scenario going to the World War One era. I think I have icons and tech advances you might find interesting or appropriate.

Thanks, I appreciate it. I'll take a look at the fantasy techs.

The tech tree is the part that is going to take me the most time. I'm going to have an Ancient, Classical, Medieval, and then Renaissance time period. So I can use a lot of the techs in the epic mod. But I need to add some new ones in each era for Religion, Tarot, and Magic stuff. And I haven't written any of this in stone yet.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Erebras,

I meant to add this. Tarot Cards are used to read your Fortune. To predict your Future, your Fate. The ultimate fate is your death and judgment right? So that's why the Apocalypse is a good fit for the Tarot mod. That's just a better, simpler way to answer your question.

Having said that, I'm wondering whether there are any other Tarot-themed endings to consider?
I'll have to think about this some more.

But no matter what, I need to make the Devil, Death, and Jugment cards do something. And each of those cards have Revelation overtones, so I don't know how else they could be used in a good way.

 

[Gray Wolf]

re: Standard vs Personal vs Fictional-character units

Standard Units:
Everyone here would agree that the standard units that come with the civ are fun and propel the game nicely. Spearman, Warriors, Archers, etc. And it's really fun to upgrade units over time and eventually start running over everyone with tanks.

Named Units:
One of my favorite mods to play is Vuldacon's Zombie mod. If I wasn't modding, I'd be playing it now.

One thing that makes Zombies so unique and fun are its units. You don't just have standard generic units. You have personal units with names, like Farmer Zeb, Uncle Remus, Old Betsy, Old Yeller, etc. Whenever I play the game, I feel more attached to those units than I do the basic epic game units.

It's sort of like the old saying: If you name an animal, you can't eat it.
It becomes a pet then and it is part of your family.

That's why I think Tarot should be fun to play. It'll have a lot of named units: 2 of Cups, 3 of Cups, 4 of Cups.
Even though they are just cards, they are sort of special. They are like the colorful card characters from 'Alice in Wonderland'
which are very entertaining because they are well-written.

Fictional Characters
Fictional Characters would make great units because we can identify with the characters: Hamlet, MacBeth, etc.
So I'd like to add a few of these to the game as well as long as they fit within the Tarot milieu.

 

[Plotinus]

I think I want to give each Suit a Bard unit. They are perfectly Medieval.

I'll have to look for a Bard unit later and see if any of them strum a guitar and show notes coming out of the guitar or something. Instead of swinging a sword, they kill by playing notes...

If we don't have a unit like that, I'll try to make one or put in a request for one...

Try here.

 

[wuhjah]

Of course, I'm going to end up spending over 6 months making this game and then no one will ever download it and play it!
So I guess the game is mostly for myself...

Probably. But, don't worry about it. As has been said before, you're doing this for the modding not the playing. The modding process is what we like. I only understood that after I finished my mod.

I may never play it, (though I nearly as likely might,) but I'm interested to read about your process and progress. Good luck.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Try here.

Awesome. Thanks.

He's perfect. I like the way he fidgets. And he sort of swings his guitar to attack. Another great Kinboat unit.

 

[Erebras]

Plotinus points out the link to the troubadour, which is very much what you are looking for. I also know of three other units in the forums you could adapt: a lyre-strumming Greek (I think they presented it as an ancient Science Leader), a sword-equipped bard who plays music to summon a black cat to attack (I believe it's called a Bard or a reference to The Bard's Tale), and Shakespeare carrying a skull a la Hamlet (as an aside, Shakespeare is nicknamed The Bard as a moniker -- kind of like Elvis is called The King). I have successfully used King Charles V (comes with Conquests) as a science leader, though I'm don't know if you can adapt him to the bard role, but he most certainly should go into your mod, for no other reason than his appearance.

 

[Erebras]

The Revelation is full of cryptic and ominous images. Quotes from it would very much add to the atmosphere of your mod. The progression of Revelation could also serve as the progression of your spaceship victory, where at each stage of completion, an event in Revelation is revealed or tied-in. I cannot give specifics off the top of my head, but it's there, the framework is there.
VICTORY CONDITIONS:
Domination -- "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. (Mark 13:27)
Space Race -- the game ends when all events have occurred
Diplomatic -- the game ends when the Lamb of God becomes supreme leader
Conquest -- "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God." (Romans 14:11)
Cultural -- the one city cultural victory could reference the City of God (Rev 21:12)
Wonder -- the game ends when all Major Arcana are constructed

I'm just brainstorming a bit, but you can see where I'm coming from. I'm not turning your mod into a religious allegory -- well, perhaps, you are, though -- but I just want to point out that the language and the imagery is there to lend description to your mod.

 

[Gray Wolf]

I have to admit that only a small number of Arcana cards are related to Biblical events. And, therefore, maybe Revelations and the Apocalypse is a bit too much. Wow, this is tough to decide. If I don't go the Apocalypse route, I don't know what to do with the Devil, Death, and the Judgment cards.

I'm going to think today and see if I can figure out "Tarot Events" instead of "Biblical Events" and possibly change the Space Race to something else.

Like you said:

The game ends when all events have occurred

So I may need some Tarot events. I don't want the game to feel too religious in nature.

I'm not saying I'm giving up the Revelations theme just yet ... but you've got me thinking.

 

[Erebras]

And you need not restrict yourself to St. John's prophecy solely, if you wish to branch out. The doomsday-tale of Ragnarok also features an end-of-all-things situation, and oddly enough, the Viking myth also features a "new heaven, and a new earth" likewise ruled by a being of light. "And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Look! God's dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death' or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." is the biblical account. The Vikings had a similar brave, new world in which Baldr -- a god of peace and light -- comes back from the realm of the dead (Hel) to rule.

(I've always presumed that all those Renaissance depictions of Jesus as a blonde-haired, blue-eyed Saviour were actually depictions of Baldr -- some sort of Germanic-JudeoChristian syncretism.)

 

[Gray Wolf]

Plotinus points out the link to the troubadour, which is very much what you are looking for. I also know of three other units in the forums you could adapt: a lyre-strumming Greek (I think they presented it as an ancient Science Leader), a sword-equipped bard who plays music to summon a black cat to attack (I believe it's called a Bard or a reference to The Bard's Tale), and Shakespeare carrying a skull a la Hamlet (as an aside, Shakespeare is nicknamed The Bard as a moniker -- kind of like Elvis is called The King). I have successfully used King Charles V (comes with Conquests) as a science leader, though I'm don't know if you can adapt him to the bard role, but he most certainly should go into your mod, for no other reason than his appearance.

Thanks, I like King Charles V and the Shakespeare units. I'll try them out. I think they'd fit in well.

 

[Gray Wolf]

The Revelation is full of cryptic and ominous images. Quotes from it would very much add to the atmosphere of your mod.

This is one thing I feel good about. Once I have something locked in, I'm very good at writing and I plan on making an awesome Civilopedia that really pulls people into the game.

And you are right, if I go the Revelations route, there's lots of content to pull from.

 

[Erebras]

Also, devils, death, and judgment are not biblically-exclusive. I would imagine any culture with an idea of morality and an afterlife has equivalents. Egypt certainly did. The Greeks and Norse, also. Even Native Americans (no, not all!) had the Happy Hunting Grounds, though I've heard it may have been an invention of missionaries, some say. But your mod is about Doomsday, so maybe a quick Wiki search of end of the world prophecies and doomsday-prophets would turn up what you are looking for. (Wiki searches for me are seldom quick...I end up hyperlinking for hours, sometimes.)

 

[Gray Wolf]

Ok, I'm sorry if I just keep talking and adding posts, but it's my way of sorting out what is needed in the mod. Anyway, I really want to keep the units and wonders as light weight as possible. The more Tarot-centric the mod is, the better. I feel like if I put too many things in the game, the game will be worse. So I have to restrain myself a little. And I see about 4 more wonders that serve no real purpose for the mod. The Pyramids for example. This particular mod doesn't need them. Some of the Tarot card wonders do the same thing as the Pyramids. And I'd rather have the game player seek out the Tarot Cards (and not other things).

Same thing with units. I may strip down the standard units to bare necessities with few upgrades. And then focus on how to make the 2, 3, 4, 5 of Cups, etc... very special units.

So all I do is talk! And I'm not getting anywhere! I"m going backwards! But that's ok as long as I end up with something good in the end...

 

[Gray Wolf]

Also, devils, death, and judgment are not biblically-exclusive.

Yes, excellent point. And I have a lot of non-Christian improvements, such as Hindu Temples, Buddhist Temples, The Green Dome, Kaaba, things like that, and those don't lend themselves to a christian-revelations theme.

 

[Blue Monkey]

For some stupid reason, you have to use exactly 10 space parts in order to see the spaceship screen. I tried and tried to get the screen to show up with 7 parts but the F10 button will not do anything unless you have 10 parts.

IIRC from working on the steampunk mod & from remarks Rob made in one of the Anno Domini threads: you must have 10 parts, but you don't have to use 10 parts.

 

[Gray Wolf]

IIRC from working on the steampunk mod & from remarks Rob made in one of the Anno Domini threads: you must have 10 parts, but you don't have to use 10 parts.

Oh, pretty smart. That's good to know. I'll try 7 parts again and make 3 of the 10 free or something.

 

[Gray Wolf]

The doomsday stuff is gone now. I don't want that. So the Land of Arcana just became sunnier.

 

[Gray Wolf]

The new space race looks like this. It's sort of like a path to enlightenment, with
Seven stepping-stones:

Innocence
Intuition
Beauty
Desire
Romance
Radiance
Truth

** Subject to change of course... but even as they stand, I already like this better than the Apocalypse stuff.