The Backstab Boys: Top civs to never trust?

Ximixanga

Enlightened Despot
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
69
So you've been backstabbed by that one civ that you were always suspecting would do so sooner or later. And yet you still feel betrayed or mad at them. Maybe you're not surprised, but it's still annoying. Who was that civ? Have they done it more than once? I'm sure there are some civs that are to never be trusted, even when you're friends with them. Or sometimes even more when you're friends with them. That is how a backstab is determined, is it?

So then, tell me your backstab stories. And the civs that have done it. I'd like to hear which neighbors will end up disagreeing with your friendship at some point in time, if for no other reason than the sky is a bit cloudy that day. The last couple of games I have been in, Assyria has somehow popped up as my nearest or second-nearest neighbor. And Ash is one two-faced (POSTMAN).

We usually start out having a good relationship with one another, becoming friends. As soon as my power rating goes down in the slightest by comparison to his, however, he goes out and backstabs me without a second thought, ramming the entirety of his military might into my cities closest to his own.

What the hell, man? :confused:

That city fell quickly and I sued for peace soon afterward, planning my eventual re-taking of the glorious town of #yoloswag420 and ultimate conquest of Assyria later in the game.

Another game later, Assyria once again wants to be friends, is my neighbor, and backstabs me when he thinks I'm getting too close for comfort and our strengths are roughly equal. Granted, Ashur likes to betray me when I'm in the middle of my own war and has done so at least two or three times by this point. I defended my city valiantly and I sued for peace.

Ash and I were unsteady rivals while I was laying waste to the empire of Brazil, who was previously my friend until Pedro denounced me while we had been friends for a long time. That was the reason I waged war against them in the first place and liberated three major cities from them, one of which was won in a peace offer.

During the peace period, Ash and Pedro became friends as I quickly upgraded and grew my military, while positioning them in a more favorable terrain for my next assault on Rio. Cut to the next war against Brazil, Ash decides to backstab his then-friend Pedro after I crush Brazil's pitiful cannoneers in a single turn with my artillery.

Brazil didn't last long under the combined assault of Ashur and (mostly) I, and soon Rio was mine and everyone in the world took notice. This being, because I had previously rid the world of Indonesia and adding Brazil to that tally raised some eyebrows. After my campaign, Ash immediately asked for us to be friends...I'm pretty sure you know where this is going, right? :mischief:

Long story short, if Ash wants to be your friend, just say no.
 
China too. One game I did everything I could to make her like me. And she did, we had all green relations with 3+ diplo modifiers.

sigh* she says all the right thing in diplomacy but my spies tell me another story.
 
http://i.imgur.com/Hm6la2R.png

Deceptive...

Bismarck, Cathy, Napoleon, Monty, Suleiman, Wu Zetian, Attilla, Dido, Enrico.

You'll also notice many many civs having a 6 there... so they are all quite likely to backstab - with the DoF willingess so high in BNW there will be backstabbing in pretty much every game of higher difficulty..


Most honest person in Civ5: Shaka.
 
Japan is not a neighbour you can trust. They always attack eventually...

In my experience, Japan, Germany, and Greece are kind of in the same boat. If you're not immediately bordering and you plot with them against others, you're fine.

What happens if you purely deal with them at your convenience, expect trouble. If you're not quite ready to go to war with them against somebody else, then obviously you're an enemy so they might just switch their preferred target from them to you.

Key point is if they ask you to go to war, say YES. And, it sometimes pays to do it immediately. I've had them in a 10-turn agreement before when they backstabbed me before the war kicked in.
 
Alexander is the person that has been a dick in every single game I played with him.
 
So you made this thread to "Denounce" Ash? Good job! I would like to "Denounce" Ash too because he just DOW me.

I'll denounce Monty too. He try to sneak attack my capitol when my army was away fighting Ash. I peaced Ash and with my road network 2 turns away from finish, my army came back and demolished his invasion force. He give me all his luxury and 30 gpt for peace because Kamehameha, Maria T, and Ramk all DOW him thinking he's a warmonger who just lost his army.
 
I had a game where I was neighbors with Ash and we were good friends for the majority of the game. Why? Because he wanted to eliminate the other half of the continent and needed someone to trade with. Of course once he had eliminated the majority of the players on the continent he denounced me.(though he never attacked, I was too far ahead at that point I guess)
 
My most recent backstab was from Napoleon. He had a nice wide empire up north. I was doing well down south, with a little tiny Carthage in the middle. We all got along just fine except for my jockeying with Dido to see who would have religious dominance (no hard feelings; we didn't try to directly convert each other). Then he sends a big army down to Carthage, which of course gets steamrolled. We were still friends and had an active research agreement, so I wasn't too worried yet. But a little worried. And of course a few turns after Carthage is wiped out he invades, quickly taking the nearest CS ally and almost getting one city. His treaty offers were of the "give me your empire type", so I instead opted for a war that lasted until I'd liberated my CS ally, liberated Carthage (free votes and a guaranteed RA), and taken all his wonders. I left him alive so everyone else could denounce him.
 
Bismarck, Nobunaga, warmongering civs in general but those two, for some reason, seem particularly eager to do "surprise attacks".
 
Lizzy, Bizzy. And Napoleizzy. I rarely leave my borders unchecked if I'm near any of those, no matter how friendly they pretend to be.
 
In my last game, Ash rushed Siege Towers and broke DoFs with EVERYONE starting in the Classical Era... Oh wait, that was me playing Ash!

Seriously though, I've been 'backstabbed' in more than half of all my BNW games.. Theodora and Haile Selassie have been particularly bad.. declaring when I have superior numbers, superior tech in the field, long term friendships, long distance and take peace sometimes before a single shot is fired... hope someone is giving them a good deal to undertake such insane warmongering.
 
China too. One game I did everything I could to make her like me. And she did, we had all green relations with 3+ diplo modifiers.

I wonder whether trading with friends for gold by offering them gpt prevents backstabs.


Also, diplomacy seems bugged in BNW.

I was playing deity / tiny with Danes, Chinese, Zulus as Aztecs. I was dead last in troops, though not by much. Danes / Zulus had 2x as much.

-Harald could've easily won by diplomacy - he hosted WC, he had 22000+ cash, could've bribed all the (6 extant CS twice.)

-He could've won by science victory, except he built his boosters very slowly, and left one wait for ? ~8 turns? After he completed second one and move third near capital I nuked it..

-enemies rarely use interceptors. None were seen in this game.

-in late game, after I built nukes, Chinese denounce me second turn after DoF? And also they let me DoF after 100 turns of not giving open borders/anything at all.
No open borders even after DoF..
What?

In this game, I was never backstabbed by Harald, or Chinese. Harald lent me enormous amounst of money, late game I was sending him 400 gpt per turn.

Didn't have any such trade with Chinese, they were stronger, right next door, coveted my territory but never attacked. Even after I stole territory from them twice.


After I built nukes (completed Manhattan last), Danes or Chinese never built any. Not sure if Danes had any uranium, but Chinese had.

After I purchased 2 ICBMs (33%+15%+25%= 73% off .. a steal) both Chinese and Danes became afraid. They still had more soldiers..
 
I'd say the solution to backstabs if always trade gpt for gold.

-With friends, you don't lose anything, only they lose if they attack, right?
-you have development money
-possibly prevents backstabs. I mean, who'd backstab if they could lose 9000 gp?
 
Ramses seems to always backstab me. Also, Isabella backstabbed me TWICE in my last game and then backstabbed Polynesia too. We all had DOF.
 
Dido is always up to no good in my games. At least with Oda, Bismarck or Caesar Augustus you know they are gonna pile on if you get weak, so you settle defensively, buy tiles, fortify your borders. Dido is usually the backbreaker because you are happily trading, then right when all military task forces are engaged to capacity with another war and your garrisons on her border are empty, elephants spill down from the mountains and flood into your territory.
 
Elizabeth. Trade of interest, trade of interest, backstab!
 
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