Lazy sweeper
Warlord
- Joined
- May 7, 2009
- Messages
- 283
HK has implemented the bottleneck in a very clever way.
It has restricted possible tech research to certain Ages.
My idea of the bottleneck is far more complicated, but I love the fact that HK has managed to implement it somehow.
Our history is very wrong. But recently thanks to researchers like Nilesh Oak, more and more the paradigm shifts.
Paradigm like before 5525BC humans were not capable of Agriculture. Domestication. Astronomy. Etc.
Mahabarata wars described by Nilesh says the war was fought by 40k laks. or 4 millions males. He then described
global world population in African at 10 mil, and non-African to be 10 mil. Half Male, 5 mil, half female.
After the 18 years war, 99.9% warriors died. Leaving 5 mil females and 1 mil males. Woman XX chromosome. Males YX. Or 3 to 1 ratio of X over Y to pass
over next generation. 5 to 1 or 16 to 1 ratio. Exactly 5525BC Males population diversity collapses. An evolution bottleneck.
All non-african Humans comes from those surviving 1 mil.
South america, or Ananta (The Flag of Ananta - Mitra Desai - Subbu) the land of One thousands peaks, and the Heavenly city of the East. (Machu Picchu) was populated by Demons. Giant Vampire Bats. Ravana was a powerful human being. A king that controlled much of the world. Bali great great grand father was a Virochana. Viracocha is a contrapcion of Viracocha.
The great civilizor was thus a human being. But also there were people in the Americas at that time.
We are talking multiple of 7K years. 5K BC, 12K BC, 19K BC, 26K BC.
North American mound people rode the Mammouth, had advanced bronze tools, milked the deer. Only some minor tribes retained the YX traits after the 12K meteor impact (supposed).
North American Indians knew them as High Chiefs. It is the Europeans that called them giants and tried to erase them from history.
So the bottlenecks are not directly related to tech. Time itself is the bottleneck. A powerful demon race of bats is a bottleneck, if it kills everyone.
Extreme Ice ages are a bottleneck. A true Ice civilization probably existed in the past in Siberia, but got wiped out by the gods (Thor eventually).
Gameplay wise, imagine you are playing with the Finns and an Ice Age kicks in and your civ get locked in a small pocket of land that didn't froze, somehow,
and remained locked for... 21K years... in the deep North. All other civs get very advanced but your civ can not get access to commerce. The language
remained a root language, similar to maybe Sanskrit, idk, but the rest of the world diversified with many languages whilst them didn't advance.
When Ice Age finished they were very barbaric from the rest of the world pov. It is a bit like Frostpunk. They had to develop techs to be able
to survive in thise extreme temps. Which techs? Mediterranean civs had other priorities.
A Super power civ that came out from an equatorial green zone like India, Egypt, Persia, Inca, Maya, Indonesia, China, that survived a great Ice Age, could
well have conquered all other civs in Early game, but get destroyed in the next event (Pinatubo eruption 4y global Nuclear winter, similar to the 1600 Carrington event)
as an Empire... losing capability to retain techs, and for a period, remain locked in survival mode, as the Finns did (Lore discretion).
And eventually the survivors would rise again, giving birth to new civs (Aztecs, Celts, Romans, Zulu, Khmer, etc).
So also the civs forced choice at the beginning of a new Age in HK are very important in the bottleneck theory.
Implementation however is sub-optimal. In HK you are forced to swap culture but no context is given as why.
Thus some Lore should, or could, help game devs, players make decisions when time come (7k years)
and new civs pop up...
I also like Sim Earth evolution depiction, when non-human species, get intelligence thanks to a Monolith.
It's a bit like terraforming but with dinosaurs, monkeys, cats, snakes...
I think a similar approach could merge in the next civ 7, thus opening the door to extreme timescales...
the god-like feature of placing a monolith, send a comet, etc, could be replaced by a mix of rng and scripted events,
but also the knowledge of teaching could be a thing.
I like playing civ 3, and gift germany with all techs up to tanks, then unleash them as allied upon all other civs, untill they are powerful enough that I have a
good time in the last turns of the late game... being able to gift techs is very important to me, something civ 6 took away that I can not understand why..
Trading techs..
A great Sage is born.
Anyone plays Eve online? Eve has chemics. Ores get processed, formulas get new compunds, alloys, etc.
I can see such a chemicals tree of techs could well enter the game in some forms.
Paper was a late Chinese tech. Egyptians used Papyrus, and Sumers used clay tablets. Very advanced chemical formulas
then allowed for recycling of paper nowadys, but processing the pulp of vegetation has a long road history behind.
Factories, mines, and ore processing plants could work with similar to Eve mechanics, making the game
far more realistic and complex. Being able to developes chemical formulas is a practical bottleneck that
could completely reshape civ 7 experience to my eyes.
It could then go like Virochana around the world, to advance minor poulations, that could be free to roam, build towns, but not develop
borders, or a settled civilization, which could be still fun to play with, and gift them with Intelligence. Language. Art. Tools.
Or it could be used on ots own civs, and then commerce would spread this new techs.
Ruins would get a completely new importance, as a dead city could retain tablets with hidden knowledge, doing
the same work a Great Sage would. After 8 new civs are formed in thus way, a new tech tree could open for example.
Or a scripted event could happen. Time and turn advancing in such extreme timescales should probably
get rethinked. Turns could get extremely long... or short...
In such scenarios, city states like Atlantis could yet exists as a playable civ, like Venice, or Syracuse, Dwarka... rng
events would decide if these would survive entirely or, get a choice to re-born again as a new civ...
and the ruins would yet contain a specific set of knowledge, that the new civ could well try to go after,
given she has the right techs to dig, or submerge, or just wait for a new Ice age when the Oceans
would dry up again, revealing the ancient shorelines...
Gameplay wise, maps should get a reskin in such extreme events, maybe based on plate tectonic theory, subsidance, etc.
continents would shift around the map and resettle. But some key lay line places would stay put... so not all is lost...
Also don't forget Aplha Centauri... could a Moon Base save humanity in the distant past???
It has restricted possible tech research to certain Ages.
My idea of the bottleneck is far more complicated, but I love the fact that HK has managed to implement it somehow.
Our history is very wrong. But recently thanks to researchers like Nilesh Oak, more and more the paradigm shifts.
Paradigm like before 5525BC humans were not capable of Agriculture. Domestication. Astronomy. Etc.
Mahabarata wars described by Nilesh says the war was fought by 40k laks. or 4 millions males. He then described
global world population in African at 10 mil, and non-African to be 10 mil. Half Male, 5 mil, half female.
After the 18 years war, 99.9% warriors died. Leaving 5 mil females and 1 mil males. Woman XX chromosome. Males YX. Or 3 to 1 ratio of X over Y to pass
over next generation. 5 to 1 or 16 to 1 ratio. Exactly 5525BC Males population diversity collapses. An evolution bottleneck.
All non-african Humans comes from those surviving 1 mil.
South america, or Ananta (The Flag of Ananta - Mitra Desai - Subbu) the land of One thousands peaks, and the Heavenly city of the East. (Machu Picchu) was populated by Demons. Giant Vampire Bats. Ravana was a powerful human being. A king that controlled much of the world. Bali great great grand father was a Virochana. Viracocha is a contrapcion of Viracocha.
The great civilizor was thus a human being. But also there were people in the Americas at that time.
We are talking multiple of 7K years. 5K BC, 12K BC, 19K BC, 26K BC.
North American mound people rode the Mammouth, had advanced bronze tools, milked the deer. Only some minor tribes retained the YX traits after the 12K meteor impact (supposed).
North American Indians knew them as High Chiefs. It is the Europeans that called them giants and tried to erase them from history.
So the bottlenecks are not directly related to tech. Time itself is the bottleneck. A powerful demon race of bats is a bottleneck, if it kills everyone.
Extreme Ice ages are a bottleneck. A true Ice civilization probably existed in the past in Siberia, but got wiped out by the gods (Thor eventually).
Gameplay wise, imagine you are playing with the Finns and an Ice Age kicks in and your civ get locked in a small pocket of land that didn't froze, somehow,
and remained locked for... 21K years... in the deep North. All other civs get very advanced but your civ can not get access to commerce. The language
remained a root language, similar to maybe Sanskrit, idk, but the rest of the world diversified with many languages whilst them didn't advance.
When Ice Age finished they were very barbaric from the rest of the world pov. It is a bit like Frostpunk. They had to develop techs to be able
to survive in thise extreme temps. Which techs? Mediterranean civs had other priorities.
A Super power civ that came out from an equatorial green zone like India, Egypt, Persia, Inca, Maya, Indonesia, China, that survived a great Ice Age, could
well have conquered all other civs in Early game, but get destroyed in the next event (Pinatubo eruption 4y global Nuclear winter, similar to the 1600 Carrington event)
as an Empire... losing capability to retain techs, and for a period, remain locked in survival mode, as the Finns did (Lore discretion).
And eventually the survivors would rise again, giving birth to new civs (Aztecs, Celts, Romans, Zulu, Khmer, etc).
So also the civs forced choice at the beginning of a new Age in HK are very important in the bottleneck theory.
Implementation however is sub-optimal. In HK you are forced to swap culture but no context is given as why.
Thus some Lore should, or could, help game devs, players make decisions when time come (7k years)
and new civs pop up...
I also like Sim Earth evolution depiction, when non-human species, get intelligence thanks to a Monolith.
It's a bit like terraforming but with dinosaurs, monkeys, cats, snakes...
I think a similar approach could merge in the next civ 7, thus opening the door to extreme timescales...
the god-like feature of placing a monolith, send a comet, etc, could be replaced by a mix of rng and scripted events,
but also the knowledge of teaching could be a thing.
I like playing civ 3, and gift germany with all techs up to tanks, then unleash them as allied upon all other civs, untill they are powerful enough that I have a
good time in the last turns of the late game... being able to gift techs is very important to me, something civ 6 took away that I can not understand why..
Trading techs..
A great Sage is born.
Anyone plays Eve online? Eve has chemics. Ores get processed, formulas get new compunds, alloys, etc.
I can see such a chemicals tree of techs could well enter the game in some forms.
Paper was a late Chinese tech. Egyptians used Papyrus, and Sumers used clay tablets. Very advanced chemical formulas
then allowed for recycling of paper nowadys, but processing the pulp of vegetation has a long road history behind.
Factories, mines, and ore processing plants could work with similar to Eve mechanics, making the game
far more realistic and complex. Being able to developes chemical formulas is a practical bottleneck that
could completely reshape civ 7 experience to my eyes.
It could then go like Virochana around the world, to advance minor poulations, that could be free to roam, build towns, but not develop
borders, or a settled civilization, which could be still fun to play with, and gift them with Intelligence. Language. Art. Tools.
Or it could be used on ots own civs, and then commerce would spread this new techs.
Ruins would get a completely new importance, as a dead city could retain tablets with hidden knowledge, doing
the same work a Great Sage would. After 8 new civs are formed in thus way, a new tech tree could open for example.
Or a scripted event could happen. Time and turn advancing in such extreme timescales should probably
get rethinked. Turns could get extremely long... or short...
In such scenarios, city states like Atlantis could yet exists as a playable civ, like Venice, or Syracuse, Dwarka... rng
events would decide if these would survive entirely or, get a choice to re-born again as a new civ...
and the ruins would yet contain a specific set of knowledge, that the new civ could well try to go after,
given she has the right techs to dig, or submerge, or just wait for a new Ice age when the Oceans
would dry up again, revealing the ancient shorelines...
Gameplay wise, maps should get a reskin in such extreme events, maybe based on plate tectonic theory, subsidance, etc.
continents would shift around the map and resettle. But some key lay line places would stay put... so not all is lost...
Also don't forget Aplha Centauri... could a Moon Base save humanity in the distant past???
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