MartinhoMukanga
Slave Master
The build order should be warrior worker settler. In my games i always do this and i has a great impact in worker production time
The Emperor Masters' Challenge 3 (on Warlords)
- Thread starter aelf
- Start date
If you rush to size 2, by 8th turn you'll accumulate 22 food and 10 hammer in warrior. Then it'll take another 12 turn to build worker. By 25th turn you'll have the corn irrigated, size 2 city, 15 food and 20 hammer. Make it 26th in case for emergency reason you need to rush the warrior or want to prevent production decay of the warrior.
If you immediately build worker, it'll take 15 turn. By 20th turn you'll have the corn irrigated, size 1 city, 15 food, and 5 hammer. By 25th turn, it'll be size 2, 18 food and 13 hammer. You'll have more food, but in previous case you can have additional warrior earlier.
If you immediately build worker, it'll take 15 turn. By 20th turn you'll have the corn irrigated, size 1 city, 15 food, and 5 hammer. By 25th turn, it'll be size 2, 18 food and 13 hammer. You'll have more food, but in previous case you can have additional warrior earlier.
CrimsonEdge
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2006
- Messages
- 256
malekithe said:
I would have the worker set up another farm somewhere getting the town to grow a little quicker so it can be subjected to the whip.
aelf
Ashen One
Round 1: 4000BC - 2640BC
We followed the same basic strategy as the first round of the previous game, with a Great Wall gambit to build the ToA in mind, given the similar abundance of trees but lack of hills in the capital.
First, we settled in place.
Then I assessed the situation to determine whether we should build a worker or a warrior first. A worker would take 15 turns to complete. I took a look at the tech tree:
I followed malekithe's suggestion by asking myself: Would the worker have anything to do after farming the corn if I build him first? We're researching Mining and BW first for chopping and to reveal copper. There's no other irrigatable grassland without chopping some trees. By the time we've researched BW, the worker would've had nothing to do except farm plains (= unchoppable extra grassland forest) for 7 turns. Not appealing. Our borders would expand in 5 turns and we could then work the corn for quick growth. All factors seemed to be pointing us towards building a warrior and growing to size 2 first. So warrior it was.
When our borders expanded, we focused on growth as planned:
The timing was just about right. By the way, the hut our borders popped gave us 47 gold.
On the next turn, we met our first neighbour:
That was fast. He must be near. I hoped fervently that he wouldn't steal the hut south of our capital before our second warrior could emerge and walk there.
And then we met another neighbour:
I was beginning to wonder if we would quickly be boxed in in this game.
Anyway, we found marble nearby:
Great Library, anyone?
And thankfully we weren't too late to pop the hut in the south:
It gave us a scout. A mixed blessing, I guess. At least we could explore our continent more quickly and see if there's really some serious competition for space.
And, oh, I forgot to take a screenshot of Washington's city screen after it hit size 2 and started on the worker:
So after the worker farmed the corn, he would be able to chop immediately.
Our first warrior soon came up to Saladin's borders, which were not far to the east:
He has gems in his capital
How unfair. I guess we should expect him to tech quickly and grab quite a few religions along the way. And he's Protective, so it won't be as easy for us to crack his empire open. I don't like the sound of it.
[to be continued in the next post...]
We followed the same basic strategy as the first round of the previous game, with a Great Wall gambit to build the ToA in mind, given the similar abundance of trees but lack of hills in the capital.
First, we settled in place.
Then I assessed the situation to determine whether we should build a worker or a warrior first. A worker would take 15 turns to complete. I took a look at the tech tree:
I followed malekithe's suggestion by asking myself: Would the worker have anything to do after farming the corn if I build him first? We're researching Mining and BW first for chopping and to reveal copper. There's no other irrigatable grassland without chopping some trees. By the time we've researched BW, the worker would've had nothing to do except farm plains (= unchoppable extra grassland forest) for 7 turns. Not appealing. Our borders would expand in 5 turns and we could then work the corn for quick growth. All factors seemed to be pointing us towards building a warrior and growing to size 2 first. So warrior it was.
When our borders expanded, we focused on growth as planned:
The timing was just about right. By the way, the hut our borders popped gave us 47 gold.
On the next turn, we met our first neighbour:
That was fast. He must be near. I hoped fervently that he wouldn't steal the hut south of our capital before our second warrior could emerge and walk there.
And then we met another neighbour:
I was beginning to wonder if we would quickly be boxed in in this game.
Anyway, we found marble nearby:
Great Library, anyone?
And thankfully we weren't too late to pop the hut in the south:
It gave us a scout. A mixed blessing, I guess. At least we could explore our continent more quickly and see if there's really some serious competition for space.
And, oh, I forgot to take a screenshot of Washington's city screen after it hit size 2 and started on the worker:
So after the worker farmed the corn, he would be able to chop immediately.
Our first warrior soon came up to Saladin's borders, which were not far to the east:
He has gems in his capital
How unfair. I guess we should expect him to tech quickly and grab quite a few religions along the way. And he's Protective, so it won't be as easy for us to crack his empire open. I don't like the sound of it.[to be continued in the next post...]
DrJambo
Crash-test dummy
steal the worker! 
aelf
Ashen One
[continued from previous post]
After the warrior was built, we started on a settler:
I thought it would be better to get one out before we started chopping for the Great Wall, just like in the previous game.
And two turns later, guess where copper was revealed.
At last!
We don't have to have IW disrupt our plans. Now we can safely research Polytheism and Sailing and build the ToA and Great Lighthouse. Maybe get to Alphabet and Literature first and build the Great Library too. Mwahaha!
Anyway, we researched Masonry next for the Great Wall.
Our scout found stone, but it was some distance off to the north:
I guess it won't be very useful to us.
After farming the corn, our worker chopped the grassland forest NE of the capital in the fat cross:
A farm will go there for extra food and a river commerce.
We got our best glimpse of Celtic lands so far...
...before our poor warrior got eaten.
As Masonry was discovered, I ended the round. Our settler is one turn away from completion. We have a few important decisions to make.
What should we research now? Our capital does not have copper, so it may have horses and we need AH to reveal them. On the other hand, we could research The Wheel and then Pottery to get some cottages up. Horses are not as vital when there's copper nearby.
Which brings us to the second question: Where should we settle our second city? I've drawn a few dotmaps:
Site A would claim the marble and pigs. It's not a great production city, it's not coastal, it's not irrigated and it has 4 useless tiles. It's also full of plain tiles. It has some food for early growth, though (pigs). The thing about this site is it claims the marble and it's near to Saladin, so he might settle around here soon.
Site B would claim the copper and a sugar resource. It has some potential for production in the early game but is low on food (this map has very little seafood around!). It is also full of jungle. I don't know whether there's any point to it.
Red B is an alternative site for copper city. It is irrigated, claims a silk resource as well and has decent production for the early game (including hammers from chopping the trees). However, it's not coastal and has the minor point of a two-tile overlap with the capital. The green and brown question marks are probable sites to claim the stone and the flood plains in the future, taking the position of Red B into account.
So will it be copper or marble first? And where exactly should we settle now and in the future? These decisions are not easy to make. And the better cities are not coastal, due to the lack of seafood, but given our strategy it would make sense to try and settle a few coastal cities.
I think it's still a tough map, but at least not nearly as bad as the previous one.
After the warrior was built, we started on a settler:
I thought it would be better to get one out before we started chopping for the Great Wall, just like in the previous game.
And two turns later, guess where copper was revealed.
At last!
We don't have to have IW disrupt our plans. Now we can safely research Polytheism and Sailing and build the ToA and Great Lighthouse. Maybe get to Alphabet and Literature first and build the Great Library too. Mwahaha!Anyway, we researched Masonry next for the Great Wall.
Our scout found stone, but it was some distance off to the north:
I guess it won't be very useful to us.
After farming the corn, our worker chopped the grassland forest NE of the capital in the fat cross:
A farm will go there for extra food and a river commerce.
We got our best glimpse of Celtic lands so far...
...before our poor warrior got eaten.
As Masonry was discovered, I ended the round. Our settler is one turn away from completion. We have a few important decisions to make.
What should we research now? Our capital does not have copper, so it may have horses and we need AH to reveal them. On the other hand, we could research The Wheel and then Pottery to get some cottages up. Horses are not as vital when there's copper nearby.
Which brings us to the second question: Where should we settle our second city? I've drawn a few dotmaps:
Site A would claim the marble and pigs. It's not a great production city, it's not coastal, it's not irrigated and it has 4 useless tiles. It's also full of plain tiles. It has some food for early growth, though (pigs). The thing about this site is it claims the marble and it's near to Saladin, so he might settle around here soon.
Site B would claim the copper and a sugar resource. It has some potential for production in the early game but is low on food (this map has very little seafood around!). It is also full of jungle. I don't know whether there's any point to it.
Red B is an alternative site for copper city. It is irrigated, claims a silk resource as well and has decent production for the early game (including hammers from chopping the trees). However, it's not coastal and has the minor point of a two-tile overlap with the capital. The green and brown question marks are probable sites to claim the stone and the flood plains in the future, taking the position of Red B into account.
So will it be copper or marble first? And where exactly should we settle now and in the future? These decisions are not easy to make. And the better cities are not coastal, due to the lack of seafood, but given our strategy it would make sense to try and settle a few coastal cities.
I think it's still a tough map, but at least not nearly as bad as the previous one.
Dr Elmer Jiggle
King
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2003
- Messages
- 811
Elrohir said:
Furthermore, given his location, he's clearly going to be a target eventually even being Protective, so whatever diplomatic ding you take isn't a huge problem.
It's nice to see no military/isolationist nutcases so far. Brennus is a bit of a religious zealot, like Isabella, but at least you don't have anyone like Montezuma or Tokugawa (... yet
).
aelf
Ashen One
=DOCTOR= said:steal the worker!
Too late! And we want a trade route game, remember? Who is to say our first enemy is going to be Saladin? He may prove to be a better ally at first. Declaring war now might create a situation like that of the previous Emperor Challenge but without War Chariots.
too late for the worker grab, so let's talk about city placement.
I'd go for another variant of site B : 1 tile NE of the copper. This way you have 0 water tiles, 3 ressources, including the stone immediately, access to farmable tiles for early growth and production, then access to sugar later (= food!) +silk (commerce+on the river
. In the late game, you'll be happy to watermill those tiles.
I'd go for another variant of site B : 1 tile NE of the copper. This way you have 0 water tiles, 3 ressources, including the stone immediately, access to farmable tiles for early growth and production, then access to sugar later (= food!) +silk (commerce+on the river
. In the late game, you'll be happy to watermill those tiles.
carl corey
Deity
What about settling 1N from violet B? It would get you another sugar in its fat cross.
Interesting decision not to steal the worker. Protective would have given you a headache if you made an enemy out of Saladin... And you still need to fight someone to expand, right?
Interesting decision not to steal the worker. Protective would have given you a headache if you made an enemy out of Saladin... And you still need to fight someone to expand, right?
Aelf,
tough call. if you want saladin as an ally you kinda need to take the marble city so you dont have to take it FROM him. but doing so would require another settler coming up asap to get the copper. unfortunately that starts to fall within the timeline of a barb invasion so w/o axes you might be in a bit of trouble there.
im not as good at dot mapping but the orange and green sites seem ok to me. but maybe someone else can remap them to provide optimal layout for other cities.
remember you're going to need as many coastal cities as possible for this strat. the particular wonder strategy (lighthouse ToA and colossus??) will result in multiple merchants.. with a good chance of a few prophets (from ToA) so that should be taken into account long term.
best of luck
NaZ
tough call. if you want saladin as an ally you kinda need to take the marble city so you dont have to take it FROM him. but doing so would require another settler coming up asap to get the copper. unfortunately that starts to fall within the timeline of a barb invasion so w/o axes you might be in a bit of trouble there.
im not as good at dot mapping but the orange and green sites seem ok to me. but maybe someone else can remap them to provide optimal layout for other cities.
remember you're going to need as many coastal cities as possible for this strat. the particular wonder strategy (lighthouse ToA and colossus??) will result in multiple merchants.. with a good chance of a few prophets (from ToA) so that should be taken into account long term.
best of luck
NaZ
Dr Elmer Jiggle
King
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2003
- Messages
- 811
First, not well thought out impression is that you should settle the pig city (A) and research Animal Husbandry more for the pigs than for horses. Copper will still be available to your second settler, but pigs and marble might not. You'll need a worker over there quickly, because there's a lot of lumberjacking to do.
What about a city one tile north east of the copper? That would claim both the sugar and silk, and still keep the copper - it would be inside your initial FC, too, so you wouldn't have to rush a Monument. It would have plenty of grassland to cottage, or later farm. The downside is that it isn't a coastal city, and has too many plains in it's FC for my liking.
Aelf's call....
Aelf's call....
aelf
Ashen One
carl corey said:
Yes, but I'm more wary after the isolation of the last game. And despite the roaring success of our savage pillaging warrior, it didn't slow down HC by that much, remember? If we grab marble city now we might not need to fight Saladin first, depending on the religious situation. By the way, here's the map of the known world, which I forgot to add:
(Yes, there's a bug in the above screenshot. All the resource bubbles are shifted 2 tiles south. I missed out this screenshot when I was correcting the problem by loading the save and taking the screenshots again. I'll post this in the Bug Reports forum.)
Notice that Brennus has adopted Hinduism and the city that we can see is the holy city of Judaism. Saladin has not converted to anything yet. So Brennus has monopoly of all the religions in our continent so far, while Saladin does not have any. It's likely the latter will try to found one, though, and him being nearer his religion would probably spread to us. That would set up a perfect situation of Saladin and us versus Brennus (whom, IMO, poses a bigger threat in the long run). When we've eliminated the Celt and our ally is backward, we can safely turn on him and conquer the whole continent.
Of course, if Hinduism spreads to Saladin and he adopts it, we would be in quite a bit of trouble. But hey, I've never seen Saladin passively adopting someone else's religion forever.
carl corey
Deity
Yeah, I remember what that pillaging expedition gave.
If Saladin manages to found a religion and spread it to you, you're clearly better off targeting Brennus. Don't forget he's Charismatic though. He'll likely have quite promoted units too, though not at Saladin's archers' level. Anyway, in this case Marble city goes first, but be sure to get copper before the barbs start throwing axes at you.
If Saladin manages to found a religion and spread it to you, you're clearly better off targeting Brennus. Don't forget he's Charismatic though. He'll likely have quite promoted units too, though not at Saladin's archers' level. Anyway, in this case Marble city goes first, but be sure to get copper before the barbs start throwing axes at you.
