The failed City States

[Pococurante]

What you are seeing is City states that never stop provoking an AI.

 

[zonk]

I think calling them failed is not on the mark. A few games in I figured out how to deal with them to my advantage and it is quite fun. On the other hand, I can see how you might expect a bit more out of them given the hype. I just don't think they are "fail"

Not looking to start flame war here - honest - but I guess my question would be how much have you played since you figured out how to deal with them?

I just say that because they've fast become tedious for me... Like I said - initially, I agree - they WERE a lot of fun.

Now, they just seem tedious.... every few dozen turns, send them more gold, rinse/repeat - with the occasional request fulfillment tossed in.

I'm coming around a bit on Social Policies - not totally as a replacement for governments/civics, but I'm sure they'll be modded back in so I can have my cake and eat it - but SPs are generally growing on me as a concept and an interesting use of culture.

CS's, though -- I'm completely running in the other direction on. I haven't yet played without them because the player-AI interaction is boring and if nothing else, at least they're a (tedious, yes, but still something to do) break in the repetitive "Next turn".

 

[zonk]

The addition of city states was not worth the loss of so many other game mechanics IMO.

This.

V basically added in 3 big things -- to replace about a dozen things of varying size (and some soft things like fewer units, fewer buildings, and fewer techs).

hex/1UpT - despite the AI's incompetence with it, I'm still liking a lot. It's the one "replacement" (I sort of see this as a replacement for the much richer and diverse unit promotions and the removal of other units) that (will, once the AI isn't so addled) work.

Social Policies - Growing to like them... I still think they would have made a better add-on/modifier to either a single-pronged government system or multi-pronged civics system. Call it a wash - but probably a net plus once modders inevitably fix the mistake of taking governments out entirely.

City States - This was really the one new "thing" -- the something for which nothing was really equivalent in IV (they sort of replace events... to some degree... but it's not a perfect match). Like I said, it's the one thing that got an initial "wow" from me... but now - I'm quickly growing to hate them.

 

[Venger]

I am not a fan of their current implementation - having to constantly shower them with gold to maintain a reasonable relationship. The devolution of the relationship should be slowed greatly or stopped altogether. It's a nice concept, execution right now is a little rough.

 

[Gaizokubanou]

What you are seeing is City states that never stop provoking an AI.

Whatever it is, it happens all the games I play (varying difficulties from chieftain to emperor) and to me that pretty much means that AI can't handle city states.

Edit: and I'm not talking about 1 or 2 city states and some lone civ going on conquer spree. I mean every single AI civ wage war against city states that they share border with.

 

[Pococurante]

I am not a fan of their current implementation - having to constantly shower them with gold to maintain a reasonable relationship. The devolution of the relationship should be slowed greatly or stopped altogether. It's a nice concept, execution right now is a little rough.

Early in the game that's true. Later on though they give you so many "quests" which are always intended to guide you in a positive direction that you'll almost never gift them gold again.

Liberating them is one of the most resource-effective ways to keep them allied through the end of the game. Social policies are equally powerful.

 

[DuseCutter]

I treat them as my younger brother. I go help them take a city from the AI we've declared war on. I'm going to see if I can get Monaco as big as Greece is currently. It will be fun to try!

 

[Louis XXIV]

some stuff that would make CS more dynamic:

- they can conquer cities. They can't build settlers, but they can expand by conquering. Greek polis, as well as medieval cities, used to expand. Venice had a quite big empire, and fought against the ottomans not as a small town that could be crushed at will, but rather as equal contender.

- they can form alliances between them to stop a major power from overrunning them. The persian wars are the most famous example, Frederick I Barbarossa and Frederick II of the holy roman empire losing to Milan and its neighbouring cities is another.

Of course, these features would need a total renewal of the diplomatic interface, they should be treated more like normal civs (at least add trade, it sounds quite simple)

They technically can do both of these things, but I agree a changed diplomatic interface will make them feel more "real".

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I agree. I love them. It's great being a Great Power playing The Great Game.

The only thing I truly detest is that they declare permanent war. This puts me in the position of constantly spawning new units to give them, which in turn they throw against the AI I've already beat into the ground until I let the AI conquer them.

I expect City states to have their own interests. But perpetual war for the entire span of history is absurd. I consider it a hang over from the previous versions of Civ that make unfixable every grudge no matter how insignificant.

That could fairly easily be fixed.

allow the "permanent war" to be come a "cold war"

The City State will be at war with the enemy civ... UNLESS, its ally Civ gives it a protection pact

The protection pact should stop the City State from being able to declare war on civs... but Civs could also no longer declare war on the city state... they have to declare war on You the protector civ, and they couldn't tresspass in its borders unless they had open borders with you.

CS in 'permanent cold war' with a civ would never allow that civ to get any influence with them, but they won't necessarily be 'at war' with them as long as they are being protected.

 

[K7avenged]

You know what city states remind me of? Daily quests from WoW. You get tired of em after your first day.

 

[CrimsonEdge]

I've never seen CS unite so far. Are you sure it wasn't for other reasons, like an allied major power declaring on you?

100%

There is a message that pops up on the right side of the screen that says that ALL of the city-states in the world have allied against X as a result of them declaring war against wother CS's.

 

[RagnorIronpants]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but earlier I got a notification saying "The Warsaw Civilization has been destroyed". However, I hadn't discovered that bit of the map and thus have no idea what it meant. Presumably, Warsaw captured a Civ's capital, and then had all its cities captured in turn.

Presumably that's a bug where the computer gets confused by city states that capture cities from actual civs...but it'd be pretty cool if City States could actually expand to the point that they became civs in themselves. Obviously it'd be hell to implement what with the leader videos and all, but it'd create a pretty dynamic game.