The Japan Thread

[Phrozen]

In this thread we shall discuss Japan in Civ7. Here are my ideas for it:

Leader: Houjou Masako. Appears as an eldery woman in a Zen Buddhist nuns robe.
Leader Ability: Bakufu. Japanese governments get an additional military slot and can designate an additional city as a second capital every time Japan switches governments.
Civ Ability: Meiji Restoration. Japan may build buildings and districts that two other friendly civs have discovered but Japan has not yet. Japan gets a research bonus on any technology that two other friendly civs have discovered but Japan has not.
Civ Unique building: Jinja. Replaces Shrine. Any Japanese city that has a jinja gets Japans chosen pantheon bonus as well as the pantheon bonus for the majority religion in the city.
Civ Unique Units: Samurai. Replaces Knight. Doesn't lose combat effectiveness when damaged. Ashigaru. Replaces Musketman. Takes less damage than a normal Musketman.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

i love it! im more of a fan of using dojos though

 

[reddishrecue]

I liked the ashigaru for musket.. but Japan was in a way by itself running mercantilism in isolation for a long time in history. Why not touch on this aspect? I mean... Japan had free market until the 19th century.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

i love it! im more of a fan of using dojos though

Considering I'd like corporations to return, for the base game, I'd love for them to have a Zaibatsu.

 

[Patine]

I liked the ashigaru for musket.. but Japan was in a way by itself running mercantilism in isolation for a long time in history. Why not touch on this aspect? I mean... Japan had free market until the 19th century.

Yes, with a merchant class derided by the samurai elite, putting them below the peasants the ashigary were levied from in their social structure, even if many merchants were wealthier than many samurai. A very odd and arbitrary social dynamic...

 

[Henri Christophe]

I rly enjoy Civ5's ability of Japan of always hit with maximun strong even if your unit just have 1hp. I guess have Japan as adversary always made the game more challeng. And show how works the war principles in Japan where the Samurai were fearless warriors who even defeating Russia with XX century war machinery with only swords.

 

[Patine]

I rly enjoy Civ5's ability of Japan of always hit with maximun strong even if your unit just have 1hp. I guess have Japan as adversary always made the game more challeng. And show how works the war principles in Japan where the Samurai were fearless warriors who even defeating Russia with XX century war machinery with only swords.

The katanas in the Ezo War, both Sino-Japanese Ward, the Russo-Japanese War and both World World Wars were no different, by that time, in official function and use that, at the same time, was typical of British and American Army and Navy's sabres and cutlasses - purely ceremonial, for officers of certain rank and role, only, with self-defense, last ditch uses being very rare and subject to anecdote. The concept of Post-Meiji Modernization usage of katanas in that form, outside rare instances (often extrajudicial executions, in fact) is myth self-perpretuated by Japanese media and lack significant backing by their opponents.

 

[Phrozen]

Yes, with a merchant class derided by the samurai elite, putting them below the peasants the ashigary were levied from in their social structure, even if many merchants were wealthier than many samurai. A very odd and arbitrary social dynamic...

The Edo period and its class system was to put stability and blunting threats to the shogunate as the highest priority. Thus money and military power had to be separated. Samurai could only have certain occupations that didn't make much money and were required to have certain things and perform certain duties that sucked up any excess money they could hoard. Merchants were put as the 2nd lowest social caste and thus a samurai wouldn't marry into a merchant family for money like what happened to most of Europe nobility. In fact Japan's economy barely grew at all during the Edo period.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The katanas in the Ezo War, both Sino-Japanese Ward, the Russo-Japanese War and both World World Wars were no different, by that time, in official function and use that, at the same time, was typical of British and American Army and Navy's sabres and cutlasses - purely ceremonial, for officers of certain rank and role, only, with self-defense, last ditch uses being very rare and subject to anecdote. The concept of Post-Meiji Modernization usage of katanas in that form, outside rare instances (often extrajudicial executions, in fact) is myth self-perpretuated by Japanese media and lack significant backing by their opponents.

The only place I know of where the katana had a useful combat role was the result of identified Weakness in the Japanese military.

In the 1930s the Japanese Army staff realized that they were always going to be outgunned by their two most likely major opponents: the Soviet Union or the United States. What heavy industry Japan had to manufacture tanks and heavy artillery was all fully occupied building and arming a fleet without which Japan would quickly starve to death.

To compensate, the Japanese army emphasized night and light infantry actions: fighting in conditions that would negate enemy superiority in firepower and place more importance on rapid maneuver, stealth and surprise. One characteristic of night attacks was Not To Fire: firing gave away your position and invited return fire which, overall, was likely to be heavier than yours. Instead, Japanese night attacks as conceived and practiced in the late 1930s were conducted using grenades, bayonets and (officer's) swords. Anybody who fired, got a grenade followed quickly by a blade.

At Khalkin-Gol, the combat in 1939 in Manchuria between the Japanese and the USSR, the Soviet Army tried to infilitrate infantry units into the enemy rear to compromise his defenses. The Japanese answer was to counterattack on the same or following night with light infantry units - no artillery or mortar or even heavy machinegun support - and in almost every case they wiped out the infilitrating Soviet units without firing a shot. Later, in the Pacific, the majority of Japanese attacks were made at night, also to avoid the heavy US firepower as much as possible. In Malaysia, the Japanese infantry's ability to move through rough jungle terrain and outflank and outmaneuver the British Commonwealth forces all the way to Singapore was largely a result of years of practicing just such maneuvers to avoid direct confrontation with heavy enemy firepower.

Unfortunately for the Japanese, in the end Firepower trumped everything. Japanese night patrols probing the US lines on Leyte in late 1944 simply disappeared and the Japanese command thought the American forces had some new type of infrared or radar device to spot them in the dark. They didn't, but SOP was to answer a suspected enemy movement with a battery or battalion of artillery fire, matching a unit of 20 - 50 men with 50 to 100 artillery shells. It was severe Overkill, but a tactic the Americans could afford and the Japanese simply had no answer to.

 

[luca 83]

To simulate the situation in Japan in 1500 -1600 there would be a puppet emperor a series of clans at war with each other, and always the same: a symbolic leader can no longer hold up a complex game

 

[Phrozen]

To simulate the situation in Japan in 1500 -1600 there would be a puppet emperor a series of clans at war with each other, and always the same: a symbolic leader can no longer hold up a complex game

Bakufu just means tent government. The Tokugawa Shogunate was not the one to invent the term and it had been long in use previoulsy. Hōjō Masako was from the Kamakura Shogunate and one of the key figures in the dominance of the Hōjō clan during it.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

My idea. on UU
1. Samurai: now represented as light armor billmen. (Katana was their secondary weapon, their primary weapon was naginata bill/halberd)
2. Zero Fighter. using chinese character for 'zero' number.
Leader that fits Meiji Restoration should be Itou Hirobumi. 'Japanese Empire' was his creation, and he dedicated his entire life for it. literally met his death in Korea as a result to build Greater Japan.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

2. Zero Fighter. using chinese character for 'zero' number.

Japanese would not have used any Chinese characters, given that they had their own (admittedly Chinese derived) script.

Officially, the aircraft was the Mitsubishi A6M Navy Type 0 carrier fighter, or rei-shiki-kanjo-sentoki , or Mitsubishi A6M Rei-sen, an abbreviation meaning Zero Fighter. The Allied code name for it was 'Zeke'. But there is no reason to use a foreign, Chinese or Allied, designation for the aircraft when A6M Reisen or A6M Zero are completely appropriate and the second version has instant recognition among the majority of gamers.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Japanese would not have used any Chinese characters, given that they had their own (admittedly Chinese derived) script.

Officially, the aircraft was the Mitsubishi A6M Navy Type 0 carrier fighter, or rei-shiki-kanjo-sentoki , or Mitsubishi A6M Rei-sen, an abbreviation meaning Zero Fighter. The Allied code name for it was 'Zeke'. But there is no reason to use a foreign, Chinese or Allied, designation for the aircraft when A6M Reisen or A6M Zero are completely appropriate and the second version has instant recognition among the majority of gamers.

Mitsubishi A6M Zero - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

official name of A6M Zero is '零式艦上戦闘機' (rei-shiki-kanjō-sentōki), and ingame icon of this unit should be"零" character.

Japanese written language uses both Kanas (derivative phoneme only scripts) and Kanji (漢字) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_characters to denote meanings. even so same characters aren't always share the same meanings in two languages. or even same words written the same aren't neccessarily means the same.

 

[Patine]

Mitsubishi A6M Zero - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

official name of A6M Zero is '零式艦上戦闘機' (rei-shiki-kanjō-sentōki), and ingame icon of this unit should be"零" character.

Japanese written language uses both Kanas (derivative phoneme only scripts) and Kanji (漢字) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_characters to denote meanings. even so same characters aren't always share the same meanings in two languages. or even same words written the same aren't neccessarily means the same.

I think you mean these characters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji as @Boris Gudenuf pointed out.

 

[pokiehl]

2. Zero Fighter. using chinese character for 'zero' number.
Leader that fits Meiji Restoration should be Itou Hirobumi. 'Japanese Empire' was his creation, and he dedicated his entire life for it. literally met his death in Korea as a result to build Greater Japan.

I think late game uniques are pretty boring and should be avoided in civs who have good options for earlier eras.

 

[Patine]

I think late game uniques are pretty boring and should be avoided in civs who have good options for earlier eras.

"Boring," isn't the word I'd use, at all. I'd have different reservations about them.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

My idea. on UU
1. Samurai: now represented as light armor billmen. (Katana was their secondary weapon, their primary weapon was naginata bill/halberd)
2. Zero Fighter. using chinese character for 'zero' number.

If they move the Samurai to cavalry class, they could get the Ashigaru as an Early Modern infantry unit. That would be my choice for a second UU.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

^ Yes. and also mean. in-game civilopedia icon..
this is for example for Civ6 (As I myself as a modder frequently does when making new units)

P-51 Mustang (Civ6)

Back to the list of units The P-51 Mustang is a unique air fighter unit of the American civilization in Civilization VI. It replaces the Fighter. In the Gathering Storm expansion, the P-51 Mustang requires 1 Aluminum to train and 1 Aluminum per turn to maintain. Common abilities: May perform...

civilization.fandom.com

this white emblem in Civilopedia. for A6M. Character 'Ling2' (零) is the most descriptive. Particularly with a legendary Mangaka is really fond of this number and character as well as the very fighter plane.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

I think you mean these characters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji as @Boris Gudenuf pointed out.

^ Yes. and also mean. in-game civilopedia icon..
this is for example for Civ6 (As I myself as a modder frequently does when making new units)

P-51 Mustang (Civ6)

Back to the list of units The P-51 Mustang is a unique air fighter unit of the American civilization in Civilization VI. It replaces the Fighter. In the Gathering Storm expansion, the P-51 Mustang requires 1 Aluminum to train and 1 Aluminum per turn to maintain. Common abilities: May perform...

civilization.fandom.com

this white emblem in Civilopedia. for A6M. Character 'Ling2' (零) is the most descriptive. Particularly with a legendary Mangaka is really fond of this number and character as well as the very fighter plane.