The Kaiser's Navy

[countmc]

Does anyone know if there are any good threads with naval ships from WWI and also some of the weapons/units that were discussed but never built during that conflict, like the giant Tsar Tank of the Russians or the Airships that actually could launch bi-planes?

I am working on a scenario I am calling the 'Kaiser's Navy' for now. Basically it is a alternative history of the Great War conflict. I went from jumping off point that Thomas Brackett Reed gets the Republican nomination in 1896 over McKinley and becomes President. He was a known isolationist and not an imperialist. So basically I have the US draw inward and not involve in world affairs for the next twenty years. This leads to some interesting changes, but the net result is a more global naval war between dreadnoughts of the Central-Powers vs the Allies.

To get to this conclusion also have the Dutch build up navy presence in East Indies, and the South American Naval Race be far more intense.

I think it would also be fun to have the Great War start a little later and therefore more technologically advanced military and bigger fleets.

I have a full timeline that goes through all the decisions needed to create this world I can post if anyone is interested.

I have got the world created and cities placed with city improvement done. Been able to mostly piece together basic army units from bits and pieces people have posted over the years (mostly the awesome Fairline units). I did notice there is not a lot of WWI naval ships posted, with the new unit limit it would be cool to have each of the major powers to have their own dreadnought unit. Would also be interesting to have some of the more fanciful weapons that were never created to be available. I was thinking specifically the Tsar Tank, proposed early paratroopers, some of the massive 'land ships' the Brits/French/Germans were talking of making, the PKZ helo Austro-Hungary wanted to make, and also massive Zeppelins/airships that could serve as essentially airborne carriers.

Any help or criticisms is appreciated.

 

[Patine]

I kind of like this idea, if the units can be made. It sounds like it would be very neat!

 

[McMonkey]

Sound like an interesting scenario. I seem to have some vague recollection of the Tsar tank. I will check my graphics archive.

 

[Fairline]

Good luck with this, sounds interesting

Not sure why the lack of US involvement would affect the naval war in ww1 though?

I'll have a root through my units see what I have that might be useful.

 

[countmc]

US being isolationist does a couple of things:

1. No US taking over the Hawaiian Islands
2. No Spanish-American War
3. No US using the Monroe Doctrine to keep European powers from interfering in Latin American countries (instead the US was the country was meddleing in Latin America through the 'Banana Wars'
4. No Panama Canal
5. No "Open Door Policy" in China

The effects on the world are that Japan takes the Philippines in the Hispano-Japanese War, Germany purchases Cuba, Germany and Britain interfere in Venezuela in the debt crisis of 1904, Britain (or Germany, it is open for debate) construct a canal in Nicargua instead of American controlled one in Panama, etc.

Basically it means the Age of Imperialism is spread across the entire globe, and I extrapolate that this holds back the French and British from coming together for a few years which also delays the Great War. This could also lead to Germany having a 'True' Global Colonial Empire, which means more coaling stations and basically a bigger naval war instead of one just confined, largely, to the North Sea.

Plus with Japan focused on Filipines, maybe no war with Russia in 1905 so the Tsar is in a stronger position when the Great War does start.

We forget that the US, starting under McKinley and Teddy Roosevelt, had a big impact on international affairs, keeping the European powers out of the Western Hemisphere and also restraining Japanese expansion, (Teddy Roosevelt got the Nobel Peace Prize for negotiating an end to the Russian-Japanese War in 1905).

No US=more European imperialism=bigger naval war

 

[Fairline]

Ah, got it - now I understand

I couldn't find any WW1 ships I haven't already posted. If you have anything specific you want drawing, I'll see what I can do.

 

[Strelok22]

Lovely idea man, early 20th century world-wide naval/colonial war with German dominance is a charming concept.
May I ask what civs you plan on including?

EDIT: Below is my take on Kaiser airfleet in case no alternatives are available

 

[countmc]

This is what I have for units so far.

I ended up using Fairline WW2 battleships to fill in for the "Super Dreadnoughts" of the age for now.

Here is what I was thinking for the civilizations, main power is listed in () is the minor powers they also control:

Russian Empire (Serbia, Romania)
Japanese Empire
Triple Alliance (German Empire, Austro-Hungarian Empire, Ottoman Turks, Kingdom of Naples, Bulgaria)
Third French Republic (Kingdom of Piedmont)
United States
British Empire

Final power I have yet to figure out. Basically right now I have a world with the Dutch having a powerful battle fleet and the Southern Cone Latin American powers all having one. I have went with a point of divergence where Italy was never united, mostly because I wanted to keep the land war pressure on the Austrian in the North, but allow them to have a naval base in the Med in the South.

So basically I can either have Brazil or Argentina as the final power or the Dutch as a sort of 'Neutral Alliance'. To keep the worldwide naval conflict going I will probably have Argentina be a British client (not that far off anywase because at the time the Brits were heavily relient on Argentinian wheat and beef) and have Brazil be a German client (not a huge stretch either because if Dom Pedro not overthrown his daughter Isabel Braganza becomes Empress, her sister married Ludwig of Saxe-Coburg, can just easily say she married him and that leads to a lot more German influence in Brazil.)

What does everyone think?

If the Dutch are the last power then you have a chance for both the Allies or Central powers try and woo them. The Japanese will covet the Dutch East Indies, but so would the Germans. Brazil as independent would also be a power wood by all sides.

Or could do something really interesting and let the Ottoman Turks be the final independent power.

 

[countmc]

That Zeppelin unit is awesome, was hoping to find another couple of airships to fill in for the other major naval powers, US, French, Brits, Japanese.

Like I said earlier, I think it would be really neat to have some of the unique 'experitmental' units never really put into mass production like the Tsar Tank of the early Austrian-Helo.

I was going to also put in through events the ability for the human player to trigger massive native uprisings, which during the Great War was the plan of the major belligerents. The Brits succeeded with the Arabs, but the Germans tried with a Hindi revolt in India and a Irish revolt in Dublin. Would be cool to have a 'rogue' like unit or 'arm shipment' unit that once smuggled into a particular square triggers native revolt.

Also to the previous post, most of the units are Fairline or Tanelorn, basically those guys know they are excellent already and probably the main thing keeping this community going.

 

[McMonkey]

This sounds like a really well thought through scenario concept. Do you have a particular nation in mind as the protagonist or will it be playable as any of the nations?

 

[Strelok22]

The concept is a naval war, go Dutch ... You can twist the story a bit and ''sacrifice'' the Ottomans a little more so they control only Anadolia after Young turks revolt, early Balkan war (timeframe ?!?) and other national revolts so the Caucasus is completely Russian and the British seize Iraq for oilfields = bigger middle east possible standoff, except if you want stronger Triple Alliance in the middle east.

Other than that, make up your mind on the Balkan wars, because if there was only one Balkan war, Bulgaria would not be in the Triple Alliance but rather aligned with Russia and the other Balkan nations.

By the way, what about Portugal? There is the possibility to ''unite'' the Dutch and the Portuguese. It is kind of a strech but you get more muscle power for the last civ.

So how does China look? If Manchuria floats off to the Japanese you can give western China to Russia for example or make them fight barbarians for it.

So Italy is next to none ... so do we get Austrian Libya and Somalia or the British were too fast

Mexico a German client? Or the possibility of uprising aka. German backed coup?

Sweden and Norway to Triple Aliance? Still a stretch but the less barbarian or unpopulated ground on the map, the better!

I am going to halt the idea assembly line for now, you have enough to think for already

 

[Strelok22]

Forgot to comment the units

First off this was drawn somewhere, I think in "Warlords of China" ?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Chamond_(tank)

Will work for a French landship, can be developed into other variations.
Second, you can give the Russians and Americans the Renault FT to build, or even rename the unit to "Light tank" so every superpower can build atleast this cheap tank of that period. Since all civs /except the last one?/ have better and more expensive tanks.

Armored cars? There are plenty of graphics lying around.

If you incorporate a tech tree you can move in some late late game Interwar units, like T-28 russian tank, B1 french tank, improved monoplanes, bigger ships (?!?), rocketry (?!?), and all kinds other cool and crazy stuff ... like rocked Dreadnoughts, biological weapons to act as nukes even ??? OK I got way too carried way!

 

[countmc]

I think I will go with the Dutch and give the Southern Cone countries as minor powers to the major powers.
In the timeline I came up with I have the Brits and Germans already dividing the Portuguese colonial empire, something they actually talked about doing. Germany gets Angola and Brits get Mozambique.
I was thinking that Venezuela is German client, but Mexico could also be an option.
If Japanese moves South earlier, maybe no Russo-Japanese War. If that is so then the Russians have Manchuria.
I was figuring that Piedmont has Libya still, but maybe Somalia is in the possession of Brits? I will have to research what direction it could have gone. I am going to also upload the timeline I came up with, kinda hazy on the end of it still, but it shows where I was thinking this is going.

 

[countmc]

Below is a list of units I am looking for, the dreadnoughts were all proposed, but never built (mostly bc of Washington Naval Treaty).

During WWI tanks were divided into two classes, hvy and light.

The airships served a major role in scouting for naval fleets, would be cool to have that represented, some smaller 'scout airships' and then a hvy 'carrier' airship capable of transporting scout bi-planes.

The infantry would be used for a 'southern cone' theater of war where clients of Brits/Germans duke it out in the pampas.

I took a stab at making a KNIL Infantry unit (Dutch colonial troops) and I used a WW2 version of Dutch infantry bc I figure it may not change much, but if anyone has a better version please let me know.

Tosa-class Japanese Super-Dreadnought
South Dakota-class US Super-Dreadnought
N3-class British Super-Dreadnought
L 20 a-class German Super-Dreadnought
Lyon-class French Super-Dreadnought
Imperator Nikolai I-class Russian Super-Dreadnought


Kii-class Japanese Battlecruiser
Admiral-class British Battlecruiser
Mackensen-class German Battlecruiser


Tsar Tank Russian Hvy Tank
Oberschlesien German Lt Tank
Ford 3-Ton M1918 US Lt Tank
Flying Elephant British Hvy Tank

PKZ Austrian- Helo

British Airship
US Airship
Japanese Airship
French Airship

Airship Carrier

Brazilian Infantry
Argentinian Infantry
Chilean Infantry

 

[countmc]

With the expanded memory option no reason to not have a playable option for either Brits or Germans bc they have the biggest navies, plus Americans bc USA!

 

[Strelok22]

Hmm, how about a Dutch Venezuela?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch–Venezuelan_crisis_of_1908

They already had influence in the Antilles and Suriname so it would not be hard to imagine a Dutch coup/war/economic takeover.

One other question: Will the scenario begin when the war breaks out and the alliances are premade or there will be initial peace with an undefined begining of the conflict that gives chance for more abnormal scenarios to take place ... such a Russo-Dutch war or other interesting ideas.

 

[countmc]

In real life you had a Venezuelan Debt crisis in 1902 and 1905, basically 'quiet voice, big stick' United States kept Venezuela independent, so in this timeline, without US playing a role, I have Germany making Venezuela a client state.

 

[Patine]

A question. Do you plan to have these 'client states' (as opposed to out-and-out direct colonies) have their own infantry units? In my current scenario idea, the one where the Axis Powers won WW2 and run most of the world through 'proxy states,' each of the proxy states have (thus far, in my plans) their own infantry types, and many use typically obsolete planes and tanks (or even cavalry); they don't use the highly-trained infantry or high-end tanks or aircraft of their 'patrons' directly.

 

[countmc]

I start them out with 'client/minor' state units and then only have them show up again through events. Wish there was a way to have units be built in only specific areas.

 

[countmc]

I am trying to create an airship unit that can carry a biplane unit as a transport, nothing seems to work. This is what I have so far, anyone have any ideas?

nil, 4, 12.,4, 8a,2d, 2h,2f, 35,2, 2, AFl, 000000010000001