The Maygars and the Finns: Lost cousins

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Suomi

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If you have not already noticed, they oddly are related. This is wierd because even though I have not seen any real Hungarians I have seen pictures. There is almost no resemblence whatsoever:confused: But the language is somewhat the same. Post explanations and anything else on this:)
 
Suomi said:
If you have not already noticed, they oddly are related. This is wierd because even though I have not seen any real Hungarians I have seen pictures. There is almost no resemblence whatsoever:confused: But the language is somewhat the same. Post explanations and anything else on this:)

The maygars did not come from Hungary only settled there. The speak a finno-ugric language which is why most historians think they drifted down from the baltic originally.
 
1. The Magyars originally originated somewhere around the Kyrgyz Steppes
2. There language is slightly similar to finno-ugric languages, so they are often categorized with them
3. The best theory out there is that the Uighurs and Magyars are close relatives, this comes form the remarkable similarities of the languages (more so than Hungarian to finno-ugic languages) and to an even greater extent the music
--I am of Hungarian descent so I have done quite a bit of research on this so don't just go blowing me off or something because I don't agree with those people who feel that all languages and ethnic groups need to fit into a larger group or chaos will consume us all.
 
Uygurs are a turkic people from east turkistan and turkic languages are similar
Hungarian( Attila is my cousin's name).
 
Suomi said:
If you have not already noticed, they oddly are related. This is wierd because even though I have not seen any real Hungarians I have seen pictures. There is almost no resemblence whatsoever:confused: But the language is somewhat the same. Post explanations and anything else on this:)

Hungarian is indeed related (distantly) to the Finno/ugric languages. It has the ö and ä sounds (Uhmlaut) that the Finno/Ugric languages have. You will not really find too many similiarities because Hungarian diverged from the Finno/ugric languages so long ago. All of the Finno/Ugric peoples (Finns, Estonians, Hungarians, Lapps, etc) come from the same area of orgin the Volga area (Volgan Mutka) just west of the Ural mountains. There used to be one Uralic language spoken by all of these peoples, that is before the peoples started to mass move to the west.

Wikipedia can give a more scientific explanation then i can.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-ugric_language_family
 
O, I didnt spell Magyars right. Oh well.
Anyways I guess the Hungarians suffered the same fate as the fennic ancient language. Mingled with the germanic and romantic speakers in the area they settled.
 
Anyways I guess the Hungarians suffered the same fate as the fennic ancient language. Mingled with the germanic and romantic speakers in the area they settled.

I really wouldn't call it "suffered". Since, mingling actually did not change their language too much, only slighty influenced it. The same is true with Finnish, except with Russian and Swedish. As for their looks, meh who cares. Their still relative peoples.
 
Reno- That is only one theory. The other one, the one I put forth, realtes the Magyars much more closely to the Uighurs based in large part on the huge resemblance in musical styles. There are actually melodies that can be found nearly exactly the same in both groups. Of course, another theory that bridges the two, suggests that the more common Finno-Ugric groups (Finns, Estonians, Lapps, etc.) are one branch of teh family while the Uighurs and Magyars make up the other branch. Supporters of this say that the Uighurs migrated south with the Magyars for a short period before sperating and migrating east while the Magyars migrated west first to Ukraine, then eventually to Hungary. Becuase of the isolation of the Uighurs, they adopted many of the Turkic customs and interbred with the Turkics, although, they still maintain racial markings of an Indo-European people. Wikipedia mentions this in the article but does not mention these two theories unfortunately, if i remmember correcectly. The similarities between the Uighurs and the Magyars are quite astuonding.
 
Actually, the Magyars also had a lot of intermixing with the Turks before settling in Hungary, so their language borrowed from old Turkic dialects, making it that much more different from Finnish. Its roots are still Finno-Ugric, though.
 
Der Sensenmann- As stated, that is only one theory. It is very annoying when people post but don't bother to respond to others.

Aion- Please, explain, but on a different thread.
 
Israelite9191 said:
Aion- Please, explain, but on a different thread.

Nah, I won't elaborate on this. What I meant is that the linguistic affinity of Finnish and Hungarian is quite distant. Just like Gaelish and Persian are cognates (both belong to sub-branches of the Indo-European family). In fact even the names Éire and Iran (along with 'Aryan') probably come from a common root.
But to come back to the topic, it's a common misunderstanding that Finnish and Hungarian would be very similar to one another because they're both Fenno-Ugric languages. Their grade of affinity might indeed be compared with Gaelic and Persian.
 
"The Hungarians are a Finno-Ugric people related distantly to Finns, Estonians, Kurs, and some smaller groups in modern Russia. This means that Hungarian is not an Indo-European language, and is therefore quite different from most of its neighbors' languages. Their original homeland some 3000 years ago was in the Ural mountains but they migrated over several centuries southward and westward until around the 9th century A.D. when they broke free from an old alliance with the powerful Turkic Khazar empire. A combined Pecheneg-Bulgar attack in 896 forced the Magyars (as the Hungarians call themselves) westward, and they seized the southern part of a Slavic empire in old Roman Pannonia, in the Carpathian Basin. This is where present-day Hungary is located."

This was posted by Vrylakas in an old thread a long time ago.

As for the cousinship, there are only a few words that are similar ("hal" which means "fish" is one of them I believe). Once I saw Kalevala in Finnish with Hungarian subtitles and I was very surprised that I could not get a thing from the Finnish language... It was really cool though.
 
klazlo said:
Once I saw Kalevala in Finnish with Hungarian subtitles and I was very surprised that I could not get a thing from the Finnish language... It was really cool though.

Hungarian is only a distant relative of Finnish, so i am not so suprised. :)

As for the cousinship, there are only a few words that are similar

All of the Finno-Ugric languages share structural features and basic vocabulary. Around 200 basic words. This common vocabulary includes at least 55 words related to fishing, 33 related to hunting, 12 related to reindeer, 17 related to plant foods, 31 related to technology, 26 related to building, 11 related to clothing, 18 related to climate, 4 related to society, 11 related to religion, and 3 related to commerce, giving an interesting picture of proto-Finno-Ugric society. :)
 
I've recently been reading the book "A History of Hungary", which was written by 18 authors from Hungary, Canada, the U.S., and Western Europe. Slightly outdated (published 1990), it does have a very good over view, written by Laszlo Makkai, on the origins of the Hungarian peoples. While the Finns, Estonians, and others form the region come form the Finn part of the Finno-Ugric proto-culture, the Hungarians and Uighurs came from the Ugric part of the Finno-Ugric proto-culture. Unlike the term 'Indo-European', Finno-Ugric, as far as my knowledge gows, refers not to modern location but to two sub cultural groups. This means that while the Finns and Hungarians are distantly related, the Hungarians are more closely related to the Uighurs. Also, because of the time periods during which the Hungarians lived as part of the Turkic Onogur Tribal Confederacy and under the Khazar Khaganate, they have much more Turkic influence than the Finns. Likewise, they have much more Greek influence becuase of the Byzantine Empire's influence to there south and Roman influence because of the prominence of the Roman Catholic Church in Hungary. While it is true that the Finns and Hungarians are distantly related as members of the Finno-Ugric family, the Hungarians, unlike the Finns, are a Ugric people with much closer ties to the Uighurs, who, I might add, have some words that are similar to the Finno-Ugric words scatered throughout there vocabulary, which many linguists believe, especially when taken in context with other evidence such as folk music and racial type, that the Uighurs originally spoke a Finno-Ugric language but latter adopted a Turkic language do to there circumstances.
 
Hungarians are distantly related as members of the Finno-Ugric family, the Hungarians, unlike the Finns, are a Ugric people with much closer ties to the Uighurs, who, I might add, have some words that are similar to the Finno-Ugric words scatered throughout there vocabulary, which many linguists believe, especially when taken in context with other evidence such as folk music and racial type, that the Uighurs originally spoke a Finno-Ugric language but latter adopted a Turkic language do to there circumstances.

:hmm: Highly unlikely on that last one. Uighurs have fairly well been documented through contact with Chinese civilization as speaking a Turkic language as early as the 6th century. The name "Uighur" derives from a Turkic tribal concept of autonomous but cooperating tribes. Also, it is very unlikely that any given people will just give up their native language and start speaking a completely unrelated language. People borrow linguistic terms and concepts, but not languages. If a territory shows evidence of a Ugric language being spoken, then replaced by a Turkic language - the most likely story is that the Turkic-speakers displaced the Ugrian-speakers.

Ancient Magyar's closest living linguistic relatives - and these are widely accepted as such in the linguistics community - are the Mansi languages of northeastern Siberia: Ob-Ugrian, Ugrian, Vogul, Ostyak. Among much other linguistic evidence, modern Hungarian culture has a peculiar singing rhythm in its folk music, and this rhythm is echoed by the Mansi peoples almost exactly. The name "Mansi" itself may be related to "Magyar" (if the term "Magyar" derived from the root term for "mondanni", to speak, as some linguists believe).

Finally, when talking about linguistic relations, it is important to remember we're talking about languages and not peoples. That there is a linguistic relation between modern Hungarian and Finnish, however distant, does not imply that there is a "blood" or genetic relationship.
 
Once I saw Kalevala in Finnish with Hungarian subtitles and I was very surprised that I could not get a thing from the Finnish language... It was really cool though.

Hej, Laci! Good to see you around! How's Manhattan? ;)

I helped a friend serve as guides for some Finns once and I just could not understand a word of what they were saying, though the cadence of their speech seemed similar.
 
Oh yes and I've been listening some Hungarian band called Hiperkarma music and its lyrics are in tempo very similar to in a Finnish rock song. Not that I coud understand any of them though :D

Later the Hungarian foreign students helped me to translate some of the lyrics..they had some good Hungarian spirit with them as well...I cant seem to recall its name I wonder why :p

Any suggestions, I will recognise the name when I'll see it.
 
Wilhelm Kaleva said:
Oh yes and I've been listening some Hungarian band called Hiperkarma music and its lyrics are in tempo very similar to in a Finnish rock song. Not that I coud understand any of them though :D

Later the Hungarian foreign students helped me to translate some of the lyrics..they had some good Hungarian spirit with them as well...I cant seem to recall its name I wonder why :p

Any suggestions, I will recognise the name when I'll see it.

That must have been Unikum.
Or maybe some kind of pálinka (peach, apple, pears?).
;)
 
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