The second Finnish succession game: struggle for immortality

[sinimusta]

After conquering the world in our previous game, we still don't have enough on our hands right now. So let's start another game.

It's agreed that we raise the difficulty to immortal, but I'd like to hear the others opinions on settings, map type, leader and so on. I think I'd like to go random leader but ban the civs with op unique units (quechua, war cha, immortal, praet). Pangaea this time would perhaps make for more interesting diplomacy.

Would others be willing to try raging barbs? I think they raise the difficulty a lot if you have land, change the strategy (like actually need to tech archery).

 

[Robert FIN]

-1 points for Rage-Barbs, sorry Sinimusta. I just prefer to learn to play with basic settings first. Let's see what the others think. I've never played with India so I vote for India as your civ, its not too OP IMO. Pangaea is fine. Maybe we should let someone who's not in our game to check the map, I ask lymond since he was so interested in our game last time too ! And for making much better name and 1st post to the thread this time, looks cool !

 

[sampsa]

I'm ok with raging barbs (haven't played with that setting though), pangaea makes it a rather straight-forward war game but I'm cool with it. Unless we decide to pursue for something else than dom/conq for whatever reason? Random leader with no inca, persia, egypt, rome is a good idea.

 

[Robert FIN]

I want India !!

 

[sinimusta]

I personally like the surprise element, seeing the leader and thinking how I should use the traits and uniques. Picking the leader takes the surprise away, though the map and the start are still a surprise.

 

[sampsa]

I personally like the surprise element, seeing the leader and thinking how I should use the traits and uniques. Picking the leader takes the surprise away, though the map and the start are still a surprise.

+1

No candy today, Robert. Fast worker is borderline OP anyway.

 

[Robert FIN]

+1

No candy today, Robert. Fast worker is borderline OP anyway.

Where's our leader then ?! I can't wait!! !

 

[sinimusta]

Ok I rolled us a start. Standard pangaea, no hut, no events and I left raging barbs OFF since I didn't want to ignore Robert's opinion on every question.

Our new leader:

Spoiler :

Good leader, financial and charismatic are decent traits although financial is overrated probably since cottage economy is so simple. Starting techs are great when coastal and mining is good anyway.

And the start:

Spoiler :

So we have non-wet corn, marble, sheep and fish. My first thought would be moving 1S to get the fish in bfc. Warrior should first move though, I think either 1N to reveal possible northern seafood or 1W.

Initial techpath: BW first to chop out workboats, then agri.

 

[Robert FIN]

Yeah, thanks for leaving Rage-Barbs off. Settling 1S I fine for me! And about the tech path: Your plan sounds OK, but can you explain why BW and why not worker first as I've been taught?

 

[vranasm]

Lurker:

actually I would move warrior 1W first to see what's around.

there can be very good play to settle on marble or PH 1W, depends if the tile 1W from marble is desert or flood plain.

The fish seem to me like trap here.

if you would talk in english I could throw some comment here and there.

 

[sinimusta]

I'm very sorry, but I've lost the save. Should always post the save so it would be found here. I'll post the new one in a minute.

And about the tech path: Your plan sounds OK, but can you explain why BW and why not worker first as I've been taught?

I would have either built workboat first, grow to size 2 to build and whip a worker or just went worker first. BW allows chopping and whipping so it would mean getting the fish improved faster.

 

[sinimusta]

Let's try again and make things right.

So our leader:

Spoiler :

Expansive and financial(again). Expansive means faster start by getting more worker turns and cheaper granaries, so properly used it's good. Holkan is nice since it's resourceless, now we don't have to worry about barbs so much and it can be good for chokes. I love this leader when playing with raging barbs (they're off just to be clear).

And the start:

Spoiler :

Forgot the resource bubbles, but there is a plains cow if you can't see it without them.

First thought would warrior move to SW to see what there is besides the river. Settling on PH (again)? At least there are some fps to cottage, though no great food.

@Vranasm: We'll talk in english so feel free to comment. In fact our previous game is also in english from page 2 or so.

 

[sampsa]

Good that you lost the Hannibal-save, it would have been too easy. Agree with vranny that the fish is a trap.

Pacal-game looks much more interesting. Settling on the plains hill seems obvious at first glance, but it's likely that there is a food resource 2E of settler. Warrior 1NE and unless it's a wet corn, settler to plains hill?

Then again, settling in place produces the worker in 15 turns (unless forest spreads to the plains hill) no matter what there is in that hidden tile. Settling on the plains hill produces the worker in 10 turns (remember that we are expansive!). 4 turns difference is huge to pass up on, so I guess I'd favor moving even if there is a wet corn... Thus, warrior SW and settler to the plains hill is my vote.

Sucky yucky starting techs for a cow-start can make the early game interesting.

 

[Robert FIN]

Worst start I've seen for a while ...

 

[sampsa]

I love it, looks challenging. Pottery is 3 techs away even.

 

[Robert FIN]

I love it, looks challenging. Pottery is 3 techs away even.

Yeah, maybe the challenge isn't that bad.. I thrust you guys so much that I believe on our victory in the worst most challenging map of the month !

 

[vranasm]

i would put my bet on grass cows if there is anything

dunno it's tough... i would say it's better to use warrior on PH to see into what you move, since once you move the settler you commit to the area...

otoh losing grass "cows" for desert and couple of flood plains is not probably good....

to the south east it looks like tundra... so you are probably somewhere south

games on immortal are rarely lost on 1 more turn of scouting... so you can probably use warrior and settler to scout the area a bit more...

settling on GH is big no-no anyway.

you could move warrior to west to check and settler SE and somewhere to check the grass tile eventually wasting 1 turn to move onto the PH next turn and settle t2.

or you could move warrior NE, if no resource, move settler to the PH and eventually move further next turn
I would put my bets that next to the PH is another PH SW and 2 flood plains west

 

[sampsa]

SIP vs PH

Settling on the PH builds the worker 4 turns quicker, so by the time SIP builds the worker PH has produced 12 8 and will keep producing +1pt. I'd be willing to sacrifice a lot for it, even corn/pig, which can anyway be claimed with a 2nd city. On top of that, SIP doesn't have many improveable tiles. FPs can be farmed at least with agriculture.

I don't see the point in "settling on GH is big no-no" btw. It's not a strong tile anyway, weaker than flat riverside grass.

 

[vranasm]

SIP vs PH

Settling on the PH builds the worker 4 turns quicker, so by the time SIP builds the worker PH has produced 12 8 and will keep producing +1pt. I'd be willing to sacrifice a lot for it, even corn/pig, which can anyway be claimed with a 2nd city. On top of that, SIP doesn't have many improveable tiles. FPs can be farmed at least with agriculture.

I don't see the point in "settling on GH is big no-no" btw. It's not a strong tile anyway, weaker than flat riverside grass.

riverside GH is 5-yield tile which costs you only 1F (aka half citizen)... it's stronger then PH

 

[Robert FIN]

Its also coastal vs. land.