The second GS dilemma

[CoZe]

hello forum people,
I have a question for you that's been bothering me for sometime.
Well I guess it's a common practise to use the first GS to build the academy in your science city. How about the other GSs ? Do you settle them in your science city or build another academy in another city with decent science output ?
I used to settle them in my science city, but sometimes it seems build a second academy in another city seems more beneficial, it gets more beakers especially if you have lots of specialists under rep.
what do you think ?

 

[vicawoo]

Get philosophy, which will speed up all later great scientists.

 

[KiTBOH]

I'm not big on this subject, I've used an SE once but...

I normally make an academy in the main science city. If i have another city that is running a lot of scientist specialists I will most liekly use a GS from that city to build the academy there. I won't run a GS around like I would some of the others. If it spawns in a city that already has an academy I'll settle it.

 

[Supr49er]

First GS (Great Scientist): Academy.
Subsequent GSs: Bulb a Technology or Settle.

 

[redmosquito]

it is usually optimal to build academy with first and settle others in the academy city. as for bulbing... depends on the situation. if i am probably the first to discover this tech I consider bulbing. otherwise i dont. though i should mention that i am only an average monarch player

 

[AmazonQueen]

If I've got several really good cottage cities I'll build multiple academies, if not settle 2nd and subsequent GS.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It always depends doesn't it?

If you're isolated and don't have a religion you'd better bulb...Actually bulbing philosophy for the civic is a good idea in a lot of cases, as this lets you churn out GS's to bulb the liberalism path if that's your intention.

If you have a *really* powerful science city in addition to the academy, like one that's worth 56 beakers/turn already or will be before/by oxford (iirc), then you might want a 2nd academy. Otherwise I'd settle in what is your academy/oxford city, where the multiplier really helps his BPT contribution.

 

[DaveMcW]

Settled GS is one of the weakest specialists. If settling is your best option, you should seriously consider generating a different kind of great person.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Settled GS is one of the weakest specialists. If settling is your best option, you should seriously consider generating a different kind of great person.

Unfortunately the only truly viable alternative in most cases is merchants, unless you're playing for culture. Or, a mixed pool which I'm fine with honestly, but then you'll still get a scientist in such a scenario sometimes .

Priests and engineers are hard to get early, especially the latter. I guess you could go for a priest if you have 3 religions or something though. Maybe. Otherwise you'd need to sink hammers/time into a wonder, which might not be worth the cost of just making a GS, settling it, and forgetting about it in some cases. It's not like a scientist added to an oxford city with all the multipliers is terrible, although it may be worth spending him to attain oxford sooner .

 

[Pacifist46]

I almost never use GSs to bulb technologies. It just feels like a waste.
Normally I will settle them all in the city they came from - it has all the science specialists in as well so makes for an awesome Oxford city.

 

[Bleys]

I generally build the Academy with the first, bulb the 2nd (philo) and 3rd (half of Education), then find strong cottage cities to make Academies with the rest. I rarely settle a GS.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Settled GS is 10.5 beackers with academy and library, 12 with uni and 18 with representation....all thi sregardless of the slider.... Plus the 1 hammer.

not bad at all....unless very close liberialism race that you need to win, settling is much better than bulbing....of course second academy in cottaged city needs to be considered as well.

 

[pigswill]

It probably depends on how well you're teching compared to the AI which is greatly affected by difficulty level. If you've got a tech lead and you're ahead on beakers per turn then lightbulbing is less important because i) there won't be many good trades available for your newly bulbed tech ii) you'll be first to the tech anyway. In that case you're probably better off building another academy or settling the GS in the academy city.
Deciding on an academy or a settled GS will depend on whether you're running a specialist or cottage economy. Surely SE vs CE has been debated to death already.

 

[Monsterzuma]

Settled GS is one of the weakest specialists. If settling is your best option, you should seriously consider generating a different kind of great person.

How are they weaker than prophets and merchants? Are the hammers and food that important? Or is it a good thing to collect Gold so the science slider can be raised...?

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

It really ought to depend on the kind of game you are playing.

Bulbing is a short term advantage, and therefore appropriate when you are in a sprint for a tech (Liberalism, Taoism, trade-bait), or when you can quickly convert the research to a decisive technical advantage (Steel, cannons, and win).

Settling is a long term payoff, suitable for a space race, or the early game when are suitable far away from "the turn" in time.

Academies, are also a long term payoff. In theory, the tradeoff between another academy and a settled scientist is a straight forward beaker calculation, with some vigorish on each side. I'm tend to feel that, in practice, dropping an academy into a city which is converting a lot of commerce to science is a move that doesn't really matter - in the sense that in those circumstances where that is a good play, you've really got a winning position anyway, so get on with it.

 

[Boodler]

Settled GS is one of the weakest specialists. If settling is your best option, you should seriously consider generating a different kind of great person.

What makes them so weak ?

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Enough settled GS in your oxford city and you can research half of each tech with that one city. I had 13 settled GS in my Rome Earth 18 game. 13 x 9 (rep) = 117 +225% = 380 per turn just from settled GS. Add in my 10 scientists specialists, trade commerce and any other tile commerce and you have an incredible science city.

10 specialists: 60 + 225% = 195
Say 10 beakers from commerce = 32

380 + 195 + 32 = 607 per turn from 1 city.

Settled GS are so much better IMO. But it's all about play style.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I don't like rep too much as a civic, but still settling in an oxford city isn't the worst thing ever:

library, univ, obs - 75%
Academy - 50%
Oxford - 100%

13.5 beakers no matter what. Still, often this is easily trumped by the bulb, where you get oxford sooner in addition to the ability to trade education. Later on, settling has nothing in terms of return vs a golden age, as long as it's your first or 2nd GA triggered by a GP.

I find I don't settle them too frequently, but it's not the worst thing ever.

 

[Orzio]

I prefer to use them for academies or bulbs. Unless I have an early oxford city and i am under rep.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I don't like rep too much as a civic, but still settling in an oxford city isn't the worst thing ever:

library, univ, obs - 75%
Academy - 50%
Oxford - 100%

13.5 beakers no matter what. Still, often this is easily trumped by the bulb, where you get oxford sooner in addition to the ability to trade education. Later on, settling has nothing in terms of return vs a golden age, as long as it's your first or 2nd GA triggered by a GP.

I find I don't settle them too frequently, but it's not the worst thing ever.

I tend to be a very light tech trader. I prefer to be far enough ahead that the AI doesn't have anything that I want which won't take 5 or 6 turns on marathon to complete myself. I would never trade Education to them willingly as it gives them access to universities / Oxford and will allow them to begin catching up. I prefer a stupid AI.

The only times I really tech trade is if friendly AI asks for a favor or I can trade Drama for 1400 gold when I'm researching rifles or something absurd like that. BTW, the AI will pay that much for really really old techs. Don't ask me why.

I do play on Noble, though. I'm sure that you can still remain far ahead with minimal tech trading on Prince, but levels above that, you're probably going to need solid tech trading style to keep strong. I'm much more of a casual player, so I won't be going above Prince (likely ever)