Gato Loco
Open to Interpretation
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2004
- Messages
- 347
Current fastest build - Smirk, with slavery-assisted settler building. First settler 2720, finished in 1880.
Also note DaveMCW and Ribannah's more balanced attempts which led to size 5 and 6 cities respectively.
I’m not sure whether this counts as an article, but I’m posting it here because I hope that the results will be something that should be available for reference in the future. The attached save file is a challenge which I am posting to stimulate discussion of starting rapid expansion strategies. Your first city is on an island with corn, fish, hills, and lots of forests. Your goal is to produce 5 warrior/settler pairs. You are Peter, chosen because his traits won’t affect the results and because the Russians start with mining to make a bronze/chop beeline attractive. The game is Noble level, so tech shouldn’t be a problem. Remember, since this exercise involves trading off short-term and long-term benefit there is no best solution, merely locally optimal solutions for particular goals. If you wish to contribute, please post:
-Your build order, with dates included
-Your worker action order, with dates included for the completion of each action
-The number of forests you chopped
-The final size of your city, along with the dates at which it grew
-Any comments you have on your strategy, particularly what about it beats similar strategies that have already been posted.
Don’t found any new cities. That would add a host of random variables and likely make it harder to get any definitive results. In a real game, these cities would of course be contributing to your empire, so getting your second city quickly counts along with getting your 3rd, 4th, and 5th quickly.
Strategies of note:
Simple worker chop (Gato Loco):
Build order:
3400 – Worker
3250 – Warrior
2920 – Settler *
2760 – Warrior
2440 – Settler *
2400 – Warrior
2080 – Settler *
1960 – Warrior
1640 – Settler *
1600 – Warrior
1280 – Settler *
Worker Actions:
3280 – Chop
3120 – Chop
2960 – Chop
2800 – Chop
2640 – Chop
2480 – Chop
2320 – Chop
2120 – Chop
2000 – Chop
1840 – Chop
1680 – Chop
1520 – Chop
1360 – Chop
Total: 13 forests chopped
City Size – 2, grew at 2760
Comments – This was the “naive” strategy of building a worker and then chopping and pumping out warrior/settler pairs. The advantage is the speed with which the first settler gets out. The disadvantage is the slow rate at which subsequent pairs get built. In reality, you probably want a second worker after the second settler so you can chop/improve the second city sooner to take full advantage.
2 Worker Chop (Gato Loco):
3400 – Worker
3080 – Worker
3040 – Warrior
2760 – Settler *
2720 – Warrior
2440 – Settler *
2400 – Warrior
2120 – Settler *
2080 – Warrior
1800 – Settler *
1760 – Warrior
1240 – Settler *
Worker Actions:
3240 – Chop
2960 – Chop
2960 – Chop
2800 – Chop
2800 – Chop
2600 – Chop
2600 – Chop
2480 – Chop
2480 – Chop
2320 – Chop
2320 – Chop
2160 – Chop
2160 – Chop
1840 – Chop
1840 – Chop
1680 – Farm Corn
Total: 15 forests chopped
City Size – 1
Comments – Building a second worker speeds up the pace considerably. By the time the second settler is built this strategy has already caught up with the first one. However, the workers managed to chop down all the forests on the island before the last settler was complete, making this the end of the road for chopping in the capitol, and making that last settler take much longer than the previous ones. At this point in a real game, the best thing to do would be to aggressively chop around newer cities to keep things going, after improving the first city enough for it to transition to a real economy. It is also good to note that the city never grew at all during this sequence. Finally, this build led to lots of overflow production. I vaguely remember that overflow production gets a penalty. If so, better results could be achieved by strategically timing the chops to minimize overflow.
Growth-Focused Expansion (Gato Loco)
Build Order:
3400 – Worker
2920 – Work Boat
2800 – Warrior
2680 – Warrior
???? – Warrior
2560 – Warrior
2520 – Warrior
2320 – Settler *
2120 – Settler *
1960 – Settler *
1760 – Settler *
1560 – Settler *
Worker Actions:
3200 – Farm Corn
???? – Mine Grass Hills
2880 – Improve Fish
2640 – Chop Forest/mine plains hill
2440 – Chop
2320 – Chop
2120 – Chop
1960 – Chop
1760 – Chop
Total: 6 Forests Chopped
City Size – 5, growth at 3160, 2920, 2700, 2600
Comments: This strategy is based around getting the city to grow before embarking on the chopping spree. The warriors are built first to maximize the size of city at this point. As a result, the first 3 cities will be founded later than the earlier strategies, so you won’t start getting any extra production for a while. On the other hand, this order leaves you with a size 5 city, a full set of improvements, and a bunch of forests left to chop. Even after you stop chopping, you’ll be able to produce at a respectable rate. This strategy works best in situations where you have a large amount of space to expand into, such as in large maps, or ones where you are alone on an island or peninsula. It would be much less useful on small maps in which all the good city sites get snapped up before 2000 BC.
“Smart” 2-worker chop (Gato Loco)
Build Order:
3400 – Worker
3080 – Worker
3000 – Warrior
2840 – Work Boat
2680 – Settler *
2640 – Warrior
2440 – Settler *
2360 – Warrior
2200 – Settler *
2120 – Warrior
1880 – Settler *
1840 – Warrior
1680 - Settler *
Worker Actions:
3280 – Chop
3040 – Chop
2920 – Farm Corn
2880 – Chop
2800 – Improve Fish
2720 – Chop
2720 – Chop
2520 – Chop
2520 – Chop
2400 – Chop
2400 – Chop
2240 – Chop
2240 – Chop
2080 – Chop
2080 – Chop
2000 – Chop
1880 – Mine grassland hill
1760 – Chop
1720 - Chop
Total: 16 Forests Chopped
City Size – 3, growth at ????, 2040
Comments – This was an attempt to improve on the basic 2-worker chop. The city was allowed to grow to size 2, and terrain improvements were placed to get the maximum use out of the worked tiles. The first settler was a bit slower because of a work boat which may not have been advisable. The fifth settler was created faster than any of the previous three strategies. The only real downside was the number of irreplaceable forests chopped to get this result. I know that I made some micromanagement mistakes on this run, but I’ll leave it to a dedicated chop fiend to get it perfect. Please post any results that achieve a better performance for the 2-worker chop.
Also note DaveMCW and Ribannah's more balanced attempts which led to size 5 and 6 cities respectively.
I’m not sure whether this counts as an article, but I’m posting it here because I hope that the results will be something that should be available for reference in the future. The attached save file is a challenge which I am posting to stimulate discussion of starting rapid expansion strategies. Your first city is on an island with corn, fish, hills, and lots of forests. Your goal is to produce 5 warrior/settler pairs. You are Peter, chosen because his traits won’t affect the results and because the Russians start with mining to make a bronze/chop beeline attractive. The game is Noble level, so tech shouldn’t be a problem. Remember, since this exercise involves trading off short-term and long-term benefit there is no best solution, merely locally optimal solutions for particular goals. If you wish to contribute, please post:
-Your build order, with dates included
-Your worker action order, with dates included for the completion of each action
-The number of forests you chopped
-The final size of your city, along with the dates at which it grew
-Any comments you have on your strategy, particularly what about it beats similar strategies that have already been posted.
Don’t found any new cities. That would add a host of random variables and likely make it harder to get any definitive results. In a real game, these cities would of course be contributing to your empire, so getting your second city quickly counts along with getting your 3rd, 4th, and 5th quickly.
Strategies of note:
Simple worker chop (Gato Loco):
Build order:
3400 – Worker
3250 – Warrior
2920 – Settler *
2760 – Warrior
2440 – Settler *
2400 – Warrior
2080 – Settler *
1960 – Warrior
1640 – Settler *
1600 – Warrior
1280 – Settler *
Worker Actions:
3280 – Chop
3120 – Chop
2960 – Chop
2800 – Chop
2640 – Chop
2480 – Chop
2320 – Chop
2120 – Chop
2000 – Chop
1840 – Chop
1680 – Chop
1520 – Chop
1360 – Chop
Total: 13 forests chopped
City Size – 2, grew at 2760
Comments – This was the “naive” strategy of building a worker and then chopping and pumping out warrior/settler pairs. The advantage is the speed with which the first settler gets out. The disadvantage is the slow rate at which subsequent pairs get built. In reality, you probably want a second worker after the second settler so you can chop/improve the second city sooner to take full advantage.
2 Worker Chop (Gato Loco):
3400 – Worker
3080 – Worker
3040 – Warrior
2760 – Settler *
2720 – Warrior
2440 – Settler *
2400 – Warrior
2120 – Settler *
2080 – Warrior
1800 – Settler *
1760 – Warrior
1240 – Settler *
Worker Actions:
3240 – Chop
2960 – Chop
2960 – Chop
2800 – Chop
2800 – Chop
2600 – Chop
2600 – Chop
2480 – Chop
2480 – Chop
2320 – Chop
2320 – Chop
2160 – Chop
2160 – Chop
1840 – Chop
1840 – Chop
1680 – Farm Corn
Total: 15 forests chopped
City Size – 1
Comments – Building a second worker speeds up the pace considerably. By the time the second settler is built this strategy has already caught up with the first one. However, the workers managed to chop down all the forests on the island before the last settler was complete, making this the end of the road for chopping in the capitol, and making that last settler take much longer than the previous ones. At this point in a real game, the best thing to do would be to aggressively chop around newer cities to keep things going, after improving the first city enough for it to transition to a real economy. It is also good to note that the city never grew at all during this sequence. Finally, this build led to lots of overflow production. I vaguely remember that overflow production gets a penalty. If so, better results could be achieved by strategically timing the chops to minimize overflow.
Growth-Focused Expansion (Gato Loco)
Build Order:
3400 – Worker
2920 – Work Boat
2800 – Warrior
2680 – Warrior
???? – Warrior
2560 – Warrior
2520 – Warrior
2320 – Settler *
2120 – Settler *
1960 – Settler *
1760 – Settler *
1560 – Settler *
Worker Actions:
3200 – Farm Corn
???? – Mine Grass Hills
2880 – Improve Fish
2640 – Chop Forest/mine plains hill
2440 – Chop
2320 – Chop
2120 – Chop
1960 – Chop
1760 – Chop
Total: 6 Forests Chopped
City Size – 5, growth at 3160, 2920, 2700, 2600
Comments: This strategy is based around getting the city to grow before embarking on the chopping spree. The warriors are built first to maximize the size of city at this point. As a result, the first 3 cities will be founded later than the earlier strategies, so you won’t start getting any extra production for a while. On the other hand, this order leaves you with a size 5 city, a full set of improvements, and a bunch of forests left to chop. Even after you stop chopping, you’ll be able to produce at a respectable rate. This strategy works best in situations where you have a large amount of space to expand into, such as in large maps, or ones where you are alone on an island or peninsula. It would be much less useful on small maps in which all the good city sites get snapped up before 2000 BC.
“Smart” 2-worker chop (Gato Loco)
Build Order:
3400 – Worker
3080 – Worker
3000 – Warrior
2840 – Work Boat
2680 – Settler *
2640 – Warrior
2440 – Settler *
2360 – Warrior
2200 – Settler *
2120 – Warrior
1880 – Settler *
1840 – Warrior
1680 - Settler *
Worker Actions:
3280 – Chop
3040 – Chop
2920 – Farm Corn
2880 – Chop
2800 – Improve Fish
2720 – Chop
2720 – Chop
2520 – Chop
2520 – Chop
2400 – Chop
2400 – Chop
2240 – Chop
2240 – Chop
2080 – Chop
2080 – Chop
2000 – Chop
1880 – Mine grassland hill
1760 – Chop
1720 - Chop
Total: 16 Forests Chopped
City Size – 3, growth at ????, 2040
Comments – This was an attempt to improve on the basic 2-worker chop. The city was allowed to grow to size 2, and terrain improvements were placed to get the maximum use out of the worked tiles. The first settler was a bit slower because of a work boat which may not have been advisable. The fifth settler was created faster than any of the previous three strategies. The only real downside was the number of irreplaceable forests chopped to get this result. I know that I made some micromanagement mistakes on this run, but I’ll leave it to a dedicated chop fiend to get it perfect. Please post any results that achieve a better performance for the 2-worker chop.