The size of huge stacks

[odalrick]

For all stacks there are one to seven dots that show how many units there are there.

The strongest unit and number of units gives a good approximation of the threat level of a stack.

However, while one dot means one unit, two means two units et cetera; seven dots only means that there are more the six units in the tile.

10 units are visually indistinguishable from 30 or 100 units. Incidentally, this is the time I most need the aggregate information, since the list of units is just a big pile of text lines.

It would be nice if the seven dots were replaced by number the actual number of units on the tile. Even better, if non-combat units wouldn't be included in this tally.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

It is possible to read the information if you read the list hovering your mouse over the stack.
If there are too many to display the last rows look like this:

Axeman(20),CV(3),CIV(5),CI(8),MI(20)..etc
Archer(10),DRIV(5)..etc
You get the idea. Instead of the letters, there are the symbols of the promotions as well as their Strength and Speed, with numbers showing how many have what combination.

I hope this have helped you a bit.

 

[WarKirby]

That's helpful, but not really great.

While the dots do look pretty, they're just not good enough. Not up to the task. I think they should be replaced, with an actual text number. Just saying how many units are in the stack

 

[JFSebastian]

I agree, you shouldn't need to hover a stack in order to find out that 100+ units just stepped over your border. While hovering the stack would still be important to find out the detailed information, there should be a shorthand way to communicate approximately how many units are in a stack just by looking at it.

I would also add, that the way the information is displayed when you hover a stack needs work. Its often illegibly obstructed near the top and the shorthand it uses at the bottom just doesn't feel like the best solution for communicating the information.

 

[Yakk]

If you want to keep dots, you could use a factor of 3 exponential system.

1 dot - 0-1 combat units
2 dots - 2-3 combat units
3 dots - 4-9 combat units
4 dots - 10 to 27 combat units
5 dots - 28 to 81 combat units
6 dots - 82 to 243 combat units
7 dots - 244+ combat units

Then you'd be able to distinguish between a small stack (1-3 dots) and a huge stack (5-6 dots) at a glance.

 

[TheJopa]

If you want to keep dots, you could use a factor of 3 exponential system.

1 dot - 0-1 combat units
2 dots - 2-3 combat units
3 dots - 4-9 combat units
4 dots - 10 to 27 combat units
5 dots - 28 to 81 combat units
6 dots - 82 to 243 combat units
7 dots - 244+ combat units

Then you'd be able to distinguish between a small stack (1-3 dots) and a huge stack (5-6 dots) at a glance.

Not good enough. For one, casual player would need to know the actual formula before having any use of the dots.

But IMO it's a civ4 vanilla issue, and we shouldn't bug Kael about it (well, not too much )

But if it's really easy fix to add number instead of dots, then I'm for the change.

 

[odalrick]

It is possible to read the information if you read the list hovering your mouse over the stack.
If there are too many to display the last rows look like this:

Axeman(20),CV(3),CIV(5),CI(8),MI(20)..etc
Archer(10),DRIV(5)..etc
You get the idea. Instead of the letters, there are the symbols of the promotions as well as their Strength and Speed, with numbers showing how many have what combination.

I hope this have helped you a bit.

I'm sorry to say it hasn't. I'd have to count each unit that shows up as it's own line, then add the aggregate numbers just to have an idea of how strong the stack is. And I have to do this for each visible stack, each turn and remember long enough to redeploy my own forces to counter this threat.

I have enough trouble doing this for my on units, and I deliberately keep their numbers low to make it easier.

If you want to keep dots, you could use a factor of 3 exponential system.

1 dot - 0-1 combat units
2 dots - 2-3 combat units
3 dots - 4-9 combat units
4 dots - 10 to 27 combat units
5 dots - 28 to 81 combat units
6 dots - 82 to 243 combat units
7 dots - 244+ combat units

Then you'd be able to distinguish between a small stack (1-3 dots) and a huge stack (5-6 dots) at a glance.

Not really, there is a huge difference between 30 and 70 units. Reminds me of Heroes of Might and Magic, that can't be a good sign.

 

[Tyrs]

Wouldn't this really be a problem more with Civ itself, not FfH?
Edit: Ninja'ed

 

[Yaotzin]

Did you just insult HOMM? :0

 

[civ_king]

or... you could put them under game options and choose vanilla, exponential, or #

 

[WarKirby]

It is a basic civ problem. But the lack of magic was a base civ problem too, and kael fixed that one.

Vanilla civ has this strange bug where there are no dragons, either. Kael and the team fixed that too.

I'm sure one more wouldn't hurt

 

[Phatkarp]

It's a civ problem but I notice it more in FFH, probably because stacks tend to be bigger and promos tend to be more important. FWIW, I think the game could use a better interface option for perusing gigantic enemy stacks.

 

[Demus]

the dots itself i don't really mind, the real problem at the moment is the list of units dropping behind a part of the interface, so you can't see the most powerful units in the stack.

 

[westamastaflash]

Use the Military Advisor, it's somewhat helpful.

 

[Keyeth]

It is a basic civ problem. But the lack of magic was a base civ problem too, and kael fixed that one.

Vanilla civ has this strange bug where there are no dragons, either. Kael and the team fixed that too.

I'm sure one more wouldn't hurt

This one's a little bit of a different beast, so to speak.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

I'm sorry to say it hasn't. I'd have to count each unit that shows up as it's own line, then add the aggregate numbers just to have an idea of how strong the stack is. And I have to do this for each visible stack, each turn and remember long enough to redeploy my own forces to counter this threat.

In order to get an idea about how strong the stack is, it is fine IMO. I just pay attention to the numbers at the lower part of the list, individual units are not really important, unless those units are heroes or national units.

Anyway, I think the concept works fine, and I haven't ever played a game that handles so big stacks, managing at the same time to give such detailed information about the units in the stack.

However, the top part of the list should be repositioned so that it does not get hidden, although I am pretty sure there is a shortcut to hide the top row buttons, so that you can see the info, but I can't remember it right now...

 

[odalrick]

In order to get an idea about how strong the stack is, it is fine IMO. I just pay attention to the numbers at the lower part of the list, individual units are not really important, unless those units are heroes or national units.

It doesn't work for me, since I can only remember that information for about 10 seconds. Less if I'm distracted, like if I look at my own units...

Hopefully, someone familiar with the code will think it's a good idea and implement it. Otherwise, I'll have to delve into the dark arts of UI-programming.

 

[WarKirby]

This one's a little bit of a different beast, so to speak.

Indeed, a unit counter is a much tamer beast than a dragon.

I bet an unpromoted ranger could handle it

 

[Keyeth]

Indeed, a unit counter is a much tamer beast than a dragon.

I bet an unpromoted ranger could handle it

Underestimating the unit counter could cost you and your unpromoted ranger both of your lives. You can't tell how strong it is. Only that it has at least 7 strength. =p

No but for serious, it might be something very difficult to change, because the ability to add/remove units and graphics and promotions/abilities is something that is more expected to be done in modifications, whereas changing around integral parts of the engine is a bit more dicey, you know? The magic system is extremely complicated, and one of the most imaginative and well implemented things I've seen in any mod for any game, but in the end, it's promotions, abilities, and binary flags for Can/Can't cast.

The simpler something is done, the more elegant and well-oiled it is. But some things are just too simple to be done, and not available for editing.

 

[Jules.lt]

It is possible to read the information if you read the list hovering your mouse over the stack.
If there are too many to display the last rows look like this:

Axeman(20),CV(3),CIV(5),CI(8),MI(20)..etc
Archer(10),DRIV(5)..etc
You get the idea. Instead of the letters, there are the symbols of the promotions as well as their Strength and Speed, with numbers showing how many have what combination.

I had a massive stack attacking me yesterday night, and I can assure you that this does not work properly:
It seems that the game begins by listing units as if there were only a few, then when it reaches the maximum count of units in that lists it begins to sum up the rest.
This results in a huge list whatever there is in the big fat stack.

Would it be possible to adapt the existing system so it sums up all of the stack in the same style once you reach a certain number of units, and only display individually exceptional units (unique type or more than 2 unique promotions as compared to other units of its type in the stack). and then check again for the number of lines to be displayed and sum it up further if required (stacks of mutated units would probably require that).
that would help a lot.