The Trial of Derek Chauvin

The third week (and final for testimony) of the Chauvin trial is starting today.
https://www.npr.org/sections/trial-...-for-jury-sequestration-after-police-shooting

There was another police shooting in a Minneapolis suburb that killed an African American male.
It touched off protesting and some follow-up very minor rioting.

Judge said no to sequestering the jury because of it.


Closing arguments start next Monday and then the jury retreats to find a verdict.

As far as I know the prosecution started out strong, but the defense has rallied in the last 2 weeks.

Minneapolis is bracing itself.
https://www.insider.com/derek-chauv...olice-officer-quit-over-trial-reaction-2021-4
 
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I foresee Derek getting acquitted from the charges and another summer of fiery “peaceful protests”.
 
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I foresee Derek getting acquitted from the charges and summer of fiery “peaceful protests”.
Did you see the quote in the article above from the policeman who left since the George Floyd death:
former Minneapolis police sergeant said:
If Minnesota had the death penalty and Chauvin got it, people in Minneapolis are still going to riot. They're still going to burn the city down.
 
Did you see the quote in the article above from the policeman who left since the George Floyd death:
I’m going to be frank on this and find it hard to believe that there would be riots if he’s convicted on all of the charges. If Derek gets the chair in this hypothetical scenario, I don’t foresee the riots to come out of the result of the trial in this hypothetical scenario to have any intensity to the level seen with the riots in the past summer.
 
I’m going to be frank on this and find it hard to believe that there would be riots if he’s convicted on all of the charges. If Derek gets the chair in this hypothetical scenario, I don’t foresee the riots to come out of the result of the trial in this hypothetical scenario to have any intensity to the level seen with the riots in the past summer.
Well, he also said this, so I am not sure his judgement is that solid:
former Minneapolis police sergeant said:
he believes Floyd died of a drug overdose, and therefore Chauvin isn't guilty of a crime
 
I think that there may be an underlying logic for the retiring police officer's belief that the city will be burnt down.

It goes like this:

If Derek Chauvin is acquitted, the disgruntled populace will overwhelm the police and burn the city down.

If Derek Chauvin is convicted of murder, the police will decline to police protests,
and the gangs, realising that, will burn the city down.

Which is why acquittal on murder and conviction on manslaughter might be best.
 
Which is why acquittal on murder and conviction on manslaughter might be best.
It’s not the best since you’re still going to get riots and the city burnt to the ground. To the activist types, they’re still going to riot because they’d see him as getting off on the two murder charges. It’s still a Chinese Finger Trap situation (I’m not 100% sure if this is a Kafka Trap scenario).
 
No matter the verdict you will still get the usual rioters that show up at any protest they can in order to smash stuff.
 
Why are we trying to account for what the citizens of Minnesota will be in reaction to the verdict when it comes to actually deciding the verdict?
 
Why are we trying to account for what the citizens of Minnesota will be in reaction to the verdict when it comes to actually deciding the verdict?
3 soldiers were falsely convicted of murder in Georgia and went to jail for decades because the jurors feared riots.
https://www.ajc.com/lifestyles/lost-basically-entire-adult-life/EEd60xY3dGTfSfptIlYVBJ/

One of the trial defense attorneys, John Watts Jr., resolved to handle the appeals. He collected troubling affidavits from jurors who said they went against their better judgment in the verdict. “I believed that the pretrial publicity and the continued media coverage during the trial would have resulted in race related riots if the defendants were acquitted,” one juror wrote, adding that the Rodney King unrest came up during the 11-hour deliberations.

Several other jurors also said fear of riots influenced their decision.

Yes, White told McCloskey, I lied.

It had haunted him for nearly 20 years,made him feel unworthy of serving as a preacher. He imagined what the congregation would think if they knew who he really was.

The stress overwhelmed White. Two strokes. Two heart attacks. A bitter strain in his marriage, because Suzette had urged him not to lie.

Why did he?

White explained to McCloskey, and later in a sworn affidavit.

People, including a fellow minister, called encouraging White to do “the right thing,” which White took to mean identify the soldiers as the shooters. Police told White there’d be riots if the soldiers weren’t convicted. But White was dogged by guilt and told a prosecutor at the district attorney’s office he wouldn’t identify the soldiers in the trial. The prosecutor, whose name White says he doesn’t remember, said that if the minister was saying he didn’t recognize the soldiers, then that meant he had lied under oath at the preliminary hearing. The prosecutor said he could charge White with perjury. (The prosecution and police have denied White’s claims that they pressured him.) White was terrified for his eight kids if he went to prison.

When the inmates learned why White lied, they were in their 40s and had already spent half their lives in prison. They decided they understood that the reverend had been in a terrible position.
 
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3 soldiers were falsely convicted of murder in Georgia and went to jail for decades because the jurors feared riots.
https://www.ajc.com/lifestyles/lost-basically-entire-adult-life/EEd60xY3dGTfSfptIlYVBJ/

This story only reinforces my point. Focus on the merits of the case. Murder 1 was always unlikely, murder 3 (the way it seems to be written) is possible, and manslaughter should be an easy conviction. Acquit on all counts if that's what you think is the merited. If Minnesota burns its kind of brought that on itself. You don't have unrest like this overnight. This is decades of tension building up along with the idea that black americans have some agency politically now.
 
If Minnesota burns its kind of brought that on itself. You don't have unrest like this overnight. This is decades of tension building up along with the idea that black americans have some agency politically now.

So many people think the unrest is just about Derrick Chauvin and George Floyd and that it will all go away with a guilty verdict.
 
So many people think the unrest is just about Derrick Chauvin and George Floyd and that it will all go away with a guilty verdict.

Yea, its such simplistic thinking that gets us into these stupid positions politically. "Race relations were fine until Obama came along" is one I hear to this day and pointing out how stupid this take is not only hurts the person I'm correcting but I feel like a dick breaking them of the construct they had in their heads about race relations in the US pre and post Obama. This is not to say that I manage to change anyone's mind on the overall position about race relations in the US right now, but you I can see the gears start to spin when I bring up agency and political power as tangible things.

Another one I love is the take "Biden is going to fix all this because he is not Trump" or "well its better now because its not Trump". In reality the only thing that's better now is the rhetoric. Effectively the policies are the exact same and I think the border issues area great demonstration of this reality. The real problem is we have promoted terrible policies in central America and to some degree that has come home to roost, rather then address the actual problem we blame the victims of our own government's (read US Corpratocracy) policies.
 
if I was a juror I'd be worried about acquitting the cop... fortunately I'd have video showing he's guilty. I'd have to look at the charges to identify the specific one that fits.
 
There's a good editorial in The Washington Post this morning. It's inspired by the traffic stop of Lt. Nazario in Virginia, but it applies to the treatment of George Floyd too, short of his death.

The Washington Post, 13 April 2021 - "Arrogance and entitlement are the diseases in American policing"

I'd remove the word 'the' from the title, but otherwise I think it's spot on.
The Washington Post said:
Racism is a certainty in many instances of police abuse of power. That’s the point that the Black Lives Matter movement has been making.
The Washington Post said:
But the comorbidity in this ongoing and disturbing American pattern is a culture of arrogance, entitlement and impunity that taints too many police departments and eclipses the good and brave officers who do put their lives on the line every day. Regardless of race.
I love her use of the word "comorbidity" here. I like the acknowledgement that there are police officers who take risks on behalf of other people, simultaneous with the characterization of some (many?) officers' arrogance and sense of entitlement, and that they behave with impunity, as a culture.
The Washington Post said:
The department runs toy drives and officer-friendly school programs. Officers do cultural diversity training and help Cub Scouts earn merit badges for finger printing. They present themselves as the good guys.

But in a gas station, alone with a Black and Latino man in a new car, these same officers enrobed themselves in an authoritarian superiority that made them demand total obedience, submission and blind compliance from an innocent man — a military officer in uniform — as if they were wartime checkpoint guards.
When I first heard about this incident on the radio, the reporter mentioned that the victim was an Army officer, but it was later that I realized he was in uniform at the time. Clearly, these officers - and God knows how many others - could give a [toss] if a person they're interacting with serves their country. What are the odds these very same police officers have a "These colors don't run" American flag bumper-sticker on their hypermasculine pickup truck? (That's me editorializing, not the author of this article. :lol: )
The Washington Post said:
“You received an order! Obey it!” an increasingly hysterical Officer Joe Gutierrez barked when Nazario asked him what was going on that night.
I like the use of the word 'hysterical.' A good summation of a guy so accustomed to simply demanding obedience - his own word, in this case, not mine - that he doesn't know what to do when someone even tries to calmly talk to him.
The Washing Post said:
The only things the police officers were guarding? Their own egos.
Someone mentioned, maybe in another thread, that the Army officer's vehicle had tinted windows and the temporary license plate may have been difficult to see. Which I totally believe. I totally believe that these police officers walked up to this car, now parked under the bright lights of a gas station, saw the temporary license for the first time, and felt embarrassed that they'd pulled this guy over for no reason. Maybe it was at that point they also realized that the driver was in uniform. And they simply could not back down and apologize for the confusion.
The Washington Post said:
Videos — both from police body cameras and Nazario’s personal mobile phone — show a respectful, calm driver in his military fatigues, raising his hands so the officers can see them as he repeatedly asks a question that every American has the right to ask: “What’s going on?”

The officers had their guns pointed at Nazario. And they escalated, threatened and bullied rather than simply answering his question.
"Escalated, threatened, and bullied, rather than simply _____________." I imagine you could copy-paste that into the complaint form for police officer misconduct, and only occasionally have to cross it out and write in something else.
The Washington Post said:
[...]it happened in a quiet town in a nation where violent crime is radically, sharply down, falling 71 percent in the between 1993 and 2018, according to the Pew Research Center. Yet even as our country becomes safer, bored officers looking for action in small towns are getting more funding, equipment, latitude and entitlement.

That’s what the Defund Police movement is about. Not taking away all the money and letting anarchy reign. Rather, critics of American policing suggest prohibiting the purchase of surplus military equipment and moving some funding to social programs that can take the burden off police departments.
Not so much to do with this editorial, perhaps indirectly, but this paragraph reminded me of something someone said on a podcast a while back. I can't remember who it was, it might have been W. Kamau Bell. It was something like, "If anyone thinks 'defund the police' means 'get rid of all the police', that just tells me they haven't Googled it." I think at some point a continuing misunderstanding of slogans like "Black lives matter" and "Defund the police" has to be understood as willful, dismissive, and perhaps deliberately confrontational. That is, the ideas these slogans represent are relatively simple and straightforward (to understand, not to implement :lol: ), and explanations of the ideas are readily available to anyone who wants them and have been for quite some time now.
 
Government enforced curfews are the most clear and most often abused violations of first amendment rights practiced in the US today. If you are really interested in seeing protests stop maybe actually change the cause of the protests? Police reform in the US is loooooooonnnnngggg overdue. American Hooliganism with a badge is a sickness of our own creation. We choose to let this continue and thus our right's be violated every day we choose not to address the root cause of the problem.

Minneapolis Curfew Causes Confusion for Vaccine Appointments (theintercept.com)

FOLLOWING THE KILLING of Daunte Wright by police in the Minneapolis suburb of Brooklyn Center, authorities were expecting unrest in the Twin Cities on Monday evening. So state, county, and city government officials took what has become a familiar tack to keep protests at bay: setting a widespread curfew after 7 p.m. local time.
 


The sad thing is I've lost track of how many times the Twin Cities police have 'accidentally' killed someone. Its at least 3 in the last few years.
 
It's clear from the video, the officer thought she was using a tazer and not her gun. Doesn't mean she doesn't deserve prison time.

Perhaps the tazer should be the side of the belt with the officer's dominant hand, and not the gun. So, reflexively, the officer is grabbing the tazer first, and not the gun. And switching the gun from the non-dominant hand to the dominant hand would be another thought process that hopefully would register in the officer's brain that they have a gun in their hands and not a tazer.
 
It's clear from the video, the officer thought she was using a tazer and not her gun. Doesn't mean she doesn't deserve prison time.

Perhaps the tazer should be the side of the belt with the officer's dominant hand, and not the gun. So, reflexively, the officer is grabbing the tazer first, and not the gun. And switching the gun from the non-dominant hand to the dominant hand would be another thought process that hopefully would register in the officer's brain that they have a gun in their hands and not a tazer.
A tazer is significantly different from a gun, feels different to a gun, and weighs differently to a gun. The only way a professional could confuse the two is if they were completely incompetent at their job.

Also, notably, the reverse never seems to happen. We don't see "whoops tazered someone we meant to shoot, our bad".
 
It's clear from the video, the officer thought she was using a tazer and not her gun. Doesn't mean she doesn't deserve prison time.

Perhaps the tazer should be the side of the belt with the officer's dominant hand, and not the gun. So, reflexively, the officer is grabbing the tazer first, and not the gun. And switching the gun from the non-dominant hand to the dominant hand would be another thought process that hopefully would register in the officer's brain that they have a gun in their hands and not a tazer.
I have been wondering it what way it matters. I do not know the law, but I am guessing that the situations where it is legal to use a taser but would not be legal to use a gun are pretty narrow. I think the idea that it is legal to use lethal force on an escaping suspect who is not causing an immediate danger is the primary culprit here.
 
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