The World War 2 Rookie... :)

Alsbron

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
62
Hello everyone. I’m posting today because I’ve decided to finally create my very own Civilization 2 scenario. I’ve modified scenarios to varying degrees and I’m familiar with the mechanics of scenario design, but I have a few concerns I’d like to discuss. As the title of this thread suggests, my scenario will be a relatively simple World War 2 scenario on the global map. Now as all of you probably know, there are obviously some concerns that arise with this map and a World War 2 scenario. The critical thing I want to somehow avoid in my scenario is the rapid pace at which the tide of war turns. I don’t want the Russians to be able to march from the doorsteps of Moscow to liberate half of Europe in the first turn. I don’t want Germany to drive from Libya to India in one turn. I want to create a balanced albeit simple and enjoyable game in a little amount of space as provided by the standard world map. Here are some points on which I would appreciate your comments.

-To create a more realistic feel, I’m thinking about making each turn in my scenario two months long as opposed to the typical one month. I even thought about three months but thought this was overdoing it. This will diminish the rapid pace at which the tide of war can turn in small spaces.

-I’ve been debating if the scenario should start in December of 1941 or September of 1939. The idea of simulating the whole war by starting in 1939 is appealing as well. I just don’t know what the ramifications on gameplay might be. The ability to explore the “what-ifs” with the Germans by starting in 1939 would be appealing.

-I don’t want to totally modify every unit along the lines of the masterful scenarios created by those with much more time and artistic inclination than myself, but I did consider the creation of two to three special units like Super Battleships, infantry, and most importantly, a Defenses or Fortifications unit that would simulate the difficulty in capturing critical cities like Moscow, Stalingrad, Tokyo, London, Berlin ect. I feel these units may be useful in creating a more realistic feel to the conflict between Germany and Russia. The map in which this vast conflict occurred is very small and thus it’s hard to create balanced, realistic gameplay. Do you feel this is a good idea and what other units might I consider?

-What events might be used to create more historical realism? I don’t want to simulate actual invasions or offensives because I want to the game to be free flowing, with multiplayer in mind, but I wouldn’t mind the creation of American fighters in China to simulate the Flying Tigers or the occasional boost in Russian and British gold to simulate lend-lease. To what extent should events be used and what events come to mind that would help my scenario?

-What would you think of creating a single ALLIES tribe as opposed to three separate tribes – the Americans, British, and Chinese? On one hand the British and Americans basically fought side by side and logistically doing this would help the player to move American supplies and men to prepare for offensives in Europe. On the other I don’t like the fact this would give the Chinese access to American goods and technology from their homeland. Obviously this is sort of contingent on when I decide to start the scenario.

Hey, I might be ten years behind the curve here but Civilization 2 is still fun. I’m going to start my scenario in ten days or so when I’ve got some free time and I may even post it for the public if I’m not too terribly ashamed of it. What are your thoughts / suggestions / feedback?
 
Hello and welcome to the forums.

-To create a more realistic feel, I’m thinking about making each turn in my scenario two months long as opposed to the typical one month. I even thought about three months but thought this was overdoing it. This will diminish the rapid pace at which the tide of war can turn in small spaces.

Think in terms of turns, not real life time, at least at the start. Good scenarios have a turn limit "sweet spot" that keep the player engaged and interested without bogging them down in lessons on attrition. You should design your scenario to last so many turns and then adjust your real life time display to match.

-I’ve been debating if the scenario should start in December of 1941 or September of 1939. The idea of simulating the whole war by starting in 1939 is appealing as well. I just don’t know what the ramifications on gameplay might be. The ability to explore the “what-ifs” with the Germans by starting in 1939 would be appealing.

It would be harder to depict 1939 than 1941, just due to the fact that there are more variables, more enemies, etc. It might end up that you may have to sacrifice some individual nation detail to start in 1939 just due to the restrictions on the number of civs, number of units, etc.

-I don’t want to totally modify every unit along the lines of the masterful scenarios created by those with much more time and artistic inclination than myself, but I did consider the creation of two to three special units like Super Battleships, infantry, and most importantly, a Defenses or Fortifications unit that would simulate the difficulty in capturing critical cities like Moscow, Stalingrad, Tokyo, London, Berlin ect. I feel these units may be useful in creating a more realistic feel to the conflict between Germany and Russia. The map in which this vast conflict occurred is very small and thus it’s hard to create balanced, realistic gameplay. Do you feel this is a good idea and what other units might I consider?

Take your pick. Balance out your militaries as best you can. Try creating some basic units to start. Infantry for each major player, a main battle tank, fighter, bomber, etc. It really won't take that long and will do wonders for your scenario and how it is received. Add some unique special units for each civ. Borrow graphics! It takes forever to make your own and we have so man y talented artists here.

-What events might be used to create more historical realism? I don’t want to simulate actual invasions or offensives because I want to the game to be free flowing, with multiplayer in mind, but I wouldn’t mind the creation of American fighters in China to simulate the Flying Tigers or the occasional boost in Russian and British gold to simulate lend-lease. To what extent should events be used and what events come to mind that would help my scenario?

Events are always fun, but keep them simple to start and add from there. A good scenario can almost run itself without events. Maybe add some citycapture events to tilt the balance in favor of the defender. That sort of thing.

-What would you think of creating a single ALLIES tribe as opposed to three separate tribes – the Americans, British, and Chinese? On one hand the British and Americans basically fought side by side and logistically doing this would help the player to move American supplies and men to prepare for offensives in Europe. On the other I don’t like the fact this would give the Chinese access to American goods and technology from their homeland. Obviously this is sort of contingent on when I decide to start the scenario.

Dec 7 1941 I could see a Brit/American Civ. Before that, not realistic. In any case I would keep the Chinese civ separate due to various historical reasons.
 
Welcome and good luck with your scenario. Remember that there are a wealth of experienced designers here who are happy to help if you run into snags. :)
 
What is the best way to deal with democratic governments like the British and the US while simulating the war? Standard game rules obviously limit these governments' abilities to make war. The standard WW2 scenario in the game seems to somehow avoid the problems brought about my troops away from home. Should I just leave every Civ as a monarchy for balance? Any suggestions are welcome for this question and the ones in my original post. Thank you so much!
 
First,Hello Comrade
I also tried to make an WWII scenario but since it was too complicated,I came up with an alternative world and made a scenario...

Now the Goverements.In one scenario,I am not sure which one exactly (I think in Rise of the Dictators) there was only one form of rule for all countries called "Goverement".It is very simple and effective (I think).So first I recommend you to try it - Only one form of goverement for all...

:)
 
What is the best way to deal with democratic governments like the British and the US while simulating the war? Standard game rules obviously limit these governments' abilities to make war. The standard WW2 scenario in the game seems to somehow avoid the problems brought about my troops away from home. Should I just leave every Civ as a monarchy for balance? Any suggestions are welcome for this question and the ones in my original post. Thank you so much!

Depends. During a total war like WWII I would leave out the Republic and Democratic governments. Functionally those governments in Civ 2 would be either causing anarchy, unrest, or would be suing for peace. Not the sort of thing you want in WWII. I would stick with the other forms only.
 
I'd love some feedback on my unit concepts and their numerical relationships. Thanks.

Indians (4,5,2)
British (5,5,2)
Australians (5,5,2)
Zealanders (5,5,2)
Canadians (5,5,2)
Free French (5,5,2)

Vichy French (4,3,2)
Italians (4,4,2)
Germans (5,5,2)
Fallschirmjager (6,5,2)
Waffen SS (7,6,2)

Japanese (5,6,2)

Chinese (3,4,2)

Americans (5,6,2)
US Marines (7,7,2)
US Airborne (7,5,2)

Russians (4,6,2)

Infantry (4,4,2)

Light Tank (6,4,3)
Armor (9,6,3)
Motor Inf. (6,6,3)
Artillery (12,2,1)
Guerillas (3,4,2)
Cavalry (4,3,3)
Heavy Defenses (0,12,0)
AA Gun (0,4*,1)

Fighter (6,6,8)
Bomber (9,3,8)

Destroyer (6,6,13)
Cruiser (9,9,10)
Battleship (12,12,7)
Super Battleship (15,15,7)
Carrier (0,15,10)
Submarine (10,4,7)
Freighter (0,2,10)

Freight (0,0,3)
 
^ I dont think that so much infantry units must be 5,5,2 because they constantly get terrain and veteran bonuses.I woud recommend FOR all units there to be difference of atleat 1 or even 2.Like 6,4,2 or atleast 6,5,2
 
If you start in 1941 you might give the Super Battleship slot to something else.
I think they went out of style with the Bismarck.
 
I once stumbled upon a wonderful thread that had a collection of World War 2 units on the first page neatly organized and categorized. I've found the World War 2 units compilation thread that is of little use as it is only like two pages long and several other threads that offer minimal help. Does anyone know the thread I'm talking about? I need to try and find a pretty much universal infantry set with all the variety I have.
 
I'd love some feedback on my unit concepts and their numerical relationships. Thanks.

Indians (4,5,2)
British (5,5,2)
Australians (5,5,2)
Zealanders (5,5,2)
Canadians (5,5,2)

Free French (5,5,2)

Vichy French (4,3,2)
Italians (4,4,2)
Germans (5,5,2)
Fallschirmjager (6,5,2)
Waffen SS (7,6,2)

Japanese (5,6,2)

Chinese (3,4,2)

Americans (5,6,2)
US Marines (7,7,2)
US Airborne (7,5,2)

Russians (4,6,2)

Infantry (4,4,2)

Light Tank (6,4,3)
Armor (9,6,3)
Motor Inf. (6,6,3)
Artillery (12,2,1)
Guerillas (3,4,2)
Cavalry (4,3,3)
Heavy Defenses (0,12,0)
AA Gun (0,4*,1)

Fighter (6,6,8)
Bomber (9,3,8)

Destroyer (6,6,13)
Cruiser (9,9,10)
Battleship (12,12,7)
Super Battleship (15,15,7)
Carrier (0,15,10)
Submarine (10,4,7)
Freighter (0,2,10)

Freight (0,0,3)

If anything I would remove the units in red and make room for more unique units, specifically for the Russians. In my opinion the Canadian, New Zealand, and Australian units are not unique enough from British units to give them their own slot. I'm even debating including the Free French as they are just not significant enough in the grand scheme of the war. The Vichy French are a bit much, considering that German front line units would be used in any defense of France.
 
I once stumbled upon a wonderful thread that had a collection of World War 2 units on the first page neatly organized and categorized. I've found the World War 2 units compilation thread that is of little use as it is only like two pages long and several other threads that offer minimal help. Does anyone know the thread I'm talking about? I need to try and find a pretty much universal infantry set with all the variety I have.

You may need to pick and choose from other scenarios at the moment. We're still looking to get more units up on the wiki and the unit threads need to get some more meat on them.

If you need something specific just ask and someone can post it.
 
I would like to thank all of you for the help. The scenario is done at this point and I'm playtesting it with my brother. I will go back to work on it in the future and try to do better on the tech tree, but for now I am happy with the results. I do not know of a World War II global scenario out there on the standard world map that plays better than this one. What I mean by that is that the scenario feels like the real war to me and makes for a very fun multiplayer game. It is by no means perfect when it comes to the tech tree, graphics, and there are several features I was going to utilize to make it even better that I have not put into place, but for the most part I'm pleased with the way the war plays and that was the most important part of it to me. The scenario is called World War II: For Empire or Freedom. I'm proud of my first effort.
 
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