Tides of Crimson (FANTASY MOD)

Yikes no Agatte? Looks like you may need to start a war for some. Or maybe just be nice and trade for it.. ;)

Yeah the Andori have some later air units with ranged attack too. In general their ranged units are not available until later in the game, but should be offset by the sheer strength of their earlier units.
Still open to gameplay change ideas if you find it too difficult, but I have a feeling that once you get that psionic grid up, you're going to find that life is significantly better. 🤣
 
Just noticed something strange, my city governor still builds units even when everything is set to "Never"
How many "Build Often/Never" Flags do you have set? The game's algorithm cannot sustain more than 4-5. Otherwise, it becomes Overloaded and Confused: It will ignore (say) all 8 of chosen ,and will immediately revert its Preference's (once again) totally ignore any and all changes you mighty\ have configured in the biq.
 
Thanks so much for the help. It helped that I reset all the settings and then set it again and now it seems to be working again. Fortunately, otherwise my latest game would have been such a hassle to micromanage :crazyeye:
 
Currently cheating on you ;) with 2 additional ToC games now in progress: Random-Hobbits, Std 70% Cont at Emp, on the WinXP laptop (still running ToC v.2.91, IIRC); and one of the other MoonElf-SG starts on the Win8.1 desktop (where ToC is up to date).

In the Hobbit game, I noticed that the Hobbits still need to rebuild their Raku Tree autoproducer to get the Raku<> upgrades. Was that intentional, or has it also already been changed (consistent with the "Spell Spire" changes) in the newer version?

Also, something in ToC, possibly in combination with the Flintlock patch (I've installed v13 on both machines), has started consistently crashing CivAssist II at around the Turn 180-200 mark, on both machines. This didn't happen in earlier versions of ToC (as far as I recall), and it doesn't happen on either machine when running CAII with the Firaxis epic-game (and also using the patch). Not sure what's going on there, but presumably something is being built (by one if the AI-controlled Civs?) which is messing with the .sav file in a way that CAII can't parse.

Obviously CAII-compatibilty is not your problem, but the crashing does make tracking my various ongoing trades more tedious (Hyreil's trade-rep has been well toasted, can't even pay 50+ GPT to hire an Ally anymore...).
 
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Currently cheating on you ;) with 2 additional ToC games now in progress: Random-Hobbits, Std 70% Cont at Emp, on the WinXP laptop (still running ToC v.2.91, IIRC); and one of the other MoonElf-SG starts on the Win8.1 desktop (where ToC is up to date).

In the Hobbit game, I noticed that the Hobbits still need to rebuild their Raku Tree autoproducer to get the Raku<> upgrades. Was that intentional, or has it also already been changed (consistent with the "Spell Spire" changes) in the newer version?

Also, something in ToC, possibly in combination with the Flintlock patch (I've installed v13 on both machines), has started consistently crashing CivAssist II at around the Turn 180-200 mark, on both machines. This didn't happen in earlier versions of ToC (as far as I recall), and it doesn't happen on either machine when running CAII with the Firaxis epic-game (and also using the patch). Not sure what's going on there, but presumably something is being built (by one if the AI-controlled Civs?) which is messing with the .sav file in a way that CAII can't parse.

Obviously CAII-compatibilty is not your problem, but the crashing does make tracking my various ongoing trades more tedious (Hyreil's trade-rep has been well toasted, can't even pay 50+ GPT to hire an Ally anymore...).
Lol I don't blame you for cheating on me. Been hard for me to get time to sit down and play a session. Soon... Hopefully.... Lol...

Hm I'm not sure if I corrected the upgradability of the Rakus in v2.92 yet or not. I'll have to check when I'm at my computer. If not, I'll make sure to get this corrected for the next version. Thanks for the reminder!!!

I'm not sure either if civ assist 2 crashes are due to ToC or the Flintlock mod. My guess is it might have to do with some out of range values, but I'm not sure. The buildings that give negative maintenance (actually give player positive gold) like the Gold Mine are out of range values that might be causing the issue. I'll have to look into this. Understand life is better with CA2 than without it. ;)

Looking forward to your new tales of conquering in your current games. ;)
 
I've built a Gold Mine nearly as soon as I've been able to, in most of my games so far. Would need to check the actual year(s) when it got completed in the CAII-crashers, but doesn't it become available during the late Ancient Age...?
 
I've built a Gold Mine nearly as soon as I've been able to, in most of my games so far. Would need to check the actual year(s) when it got completed in the CAII-crashers, but doesn't it become available during the late Ancient Age...?
Yeah late 1st era, I was more thinking along the lines of the CPU building it. But I'm not sure.

Possibly related to the C3X mod, but again would be hard to test as it seems random (even though I'm sure it's not) the exact turn that causes Civ assist to no longer work.
 
If the crash is happening because an incompatible building has just been completed, the exact turn that it happens would of course vary from game to game, depending on multiple factors, e.g. when the needed tech was researched, when any necessary resource was roaded, the available SPT of the town in question, and hence the earliest possible in-game date that the building could be completed.

But the 'window' for potential crash-dates would have a definite floor based on the maximum tech-rate (and remember, tech-pace will generally be faster in higher-difficulty games), and a likely ceiling based on the player's eagerness to get the building up as fast as possible after it becomes available (in order to maximise that building's benefit). Hence my estimate of the 180-200 AD range should be understood to apply only for my games/playstyle.

But really, the only way to test would be to play a whole bunch of ToC games up until CAII crashes, and then look at what common factor(s) might exist for the specific interturns when the crash began, that is, what changed between the non-crashing autosave, and the next one. I'm game if you are... ;)
 
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Hmm.. now that i think about it....I have a couple saves from v2.92 (actually 2.92+ because there are new units/buildings in the development version of unreleased 3.0) that are 500+ turns into ToC without any crashes when using Civ Assist 2. Examples attached, but not sure if they will work for you in-game since they are v2.92+, but you might be able to open with civ assist 2. For me, only the diplomacy tab in Civ Assist 2 doesn't work. Everything else works.

If it doesn't work for you due to new data in the save files, at least you have something to look forward to, because this future version WILL hopefully work with CA2.

These are debug saves where I didn't build much of anything.. so maybe why there are no CA2 issues? But the AI definitely built a ton of buildings.

Which version did you say you were playing on your playthroughs again? @tjs282
 

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Hi @haluu, I could also open both those saves in CAII without it crashing (and the Diplo-tab works for me).

That said, in both saves your "DEBUG"-Civ hadn't yet built a Gold Mine, Gem Refinery or Silk Factory (those are all "income-providing SWs", right?), so if one or more of those buildings is the CAII-crasher, those saves would not currently show that.

Scooting around the World Map a little in the Game 6 save, I found several (currently AI-controlled?) towns that were eligible to build a Gold Mine, e.g. Junglehaven (Amazons) or Thorpezan (Blood Cult). So if you debugged your way into controlling one of those instead (if that's possible?), you could try setting a Gold Mine as the current build (assuming that the AI hasn't already done so) and see what happens when it completes?
 
@tjs282 just tried and Civ Assist II did not crash on me for the attached save, after forcing a Moon Elven city (Crezivan?) to build a Gold Mine, and after I myself built a Silk Factory, Gold Mine, and Gemstone in my lone island city. I don't think it's the negative maintenance (positive gold) of the Gold Mines causing the crash you experience in Civ Assist 2. It must be something else, just not sure what yet.
 

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Another minor apparent bug to report, for the most recent ToC version (= v.2.92?).

Although we haven't run into this yet in our Moon-Elf SG, I just researched Elvensong(?) in my alt-start solo-game, and discovered that even though Moonlight Dancers are supposed to be upgradeable (according to their Pedia text-entry), the upgrade-path has not been properly set (no "Upgrade" unit-action button appears on the main game-screen, and no "Upgrades-to [Unit]" entry appears to have been set in the .biq either*).

So I can now build both the basic Dancer unit and the Dancer<>.

*If I'd thought harder about it, I should also have noticed this earlier, because the Dancer Pedia-page does not show a hardcoded upgrade-path.
 
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Another minor apparent bug to report, for the most recent ToC version (= v.2.92?).

Although we haven't run into this yet in our Moon-Elf SG, I just researched Elvensong(?) in my alt-start solo-game, and discovered that even though Moonlight Dancers are supposed to be upgradeable (according to their Pedia text-entry), the upgrade-path has not been properly set (no "Upgrade" unit-action button appears on the main game-screen, and no "Upgrades-to [Unit]" entry appears to have been set in the .biq either*).

So I can now build both the basic Dancer unit and the Dancer<>.

*If I'd thought harder about it, I should also have noticed this earlier, because the Dancer Pedia-page does not show a hardcoded upgrade-path.
Great find, thanks TJS! I'll fix this in the next version for sure.

Looks like you are going to have a lot of elven ladies floating around. ;)
 
Looks like you are going to have a lot of elven ladies floating around. ;)
Now that the upgrades are available, I've simply stopped building the basic Dancers: my still-growing Barracks-towns are building Spirits for inland garrison-duty, or Ranger- and Dancer-upgrades for firefighting duties along my coastal- and border-towns.

(My Domestic Advisor keeps asking to build Elohim, but if I'm going to convert pop-points, Treants are better defenders and Sorceresses are better attackers; I'll soon be able to build Demon Hunters as well, but I'll need a really food-rich and productive town — maybe Demasus, or Kalimsa, once it completes Switchtail Reservoir — to do that)

I think I might still have 1-2 eDancers floating around, but any vDancers who survive the next war will probably end up getting disbanded into useful buildings in the boondocks, e.g. Warehouses, Fisheries, and Elder Councils (I already captured / built the "Free-Walls", "Free-Shrines", "Free-Gardens", "Free-ChiefsGuilds" and "Free-ScholarsQs" GWs!).
Spoiler Yeah, about that next war... :
I'm nearly done clearing my continent (it's almost 300 AD, and I know exactly where my children neighbours are!). I already destroyed the Osiri, Ramayanians, and Ethropa, while also making some gains against the Frostlings, Dark Elves, and Archons — mostly after they sneak-attacked me, whether alone or as part of an Alliance (apart from the Swarm, oddly enough — but I boxed them into their Jungle early, and kept them poor by selling old tech, so I think they were just afraid to challenge me!).

After the extinction of the Ethropa, my troops returned north to exile the Archons and then the Dark Elves to Tundra-islands halfway around the world — leaving only the Frostlings, living on sufferance in their 1-town wide strip of land along the northern coast (half of which they took from the Archons — who Rem'G also killed off, shortly after I chased them off the continent). He still has several offshore Tundra-islands — which is the Frostlings' natural habitat — so I won't feel any guilt over taking the rest of his mainland towns! The only question is which order I do it in, but once that's done, it'll be swords-into-ploughshares time.

I'm easily in a position to win the game almost any way I want to, but once I've researched/ built the Blethius Chateau (I've had the tech-lead for a while now, so I've no excuses for not getting there first), Diplomacy would probably be the fastest way to win at this point.

There should still be 4-5 Civs remaining, come the election, so it should be feasible. Just off the former Rama coast, the Lizardmen have a medium-small island to themselves (5-6 towns at the Civ3 AI's usual Cxx[x]xC Settlement-pattern) — and even managed to conquer 2 out of 3 Rama(?) towns on a still-smaller island further north (I got the third). Over on the other major continent, the Hobbits now reign supreme over the Naga and Andori, having expunged the 12th Civ (it's a fully populated Standard map, so there must have been one, but I can't remember who it was offhand — maybe the Trolls?).

And I'm on relatively good terms with everyone except Rem'G (and after the kicking I already gave him — and the next one that I'm going to give him — his Furious mood is unlikely to ever improve, so I'm not going to be counting on his vote!)
 
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@tjs282 sorry for the delay in response, life has been crazy! Hope everything is good!

I love that you are taking on another Moon Elven game in parallel with our Succession Game, since I've been delayed in getting to my next 10 turns. ;)

Glad to hear u are on your way to a diplomatic victory. My guess is that you've possibly already won this game by now. ;).

Love that the frostlings are essentially only left to their wintery areas, the way it was meant to be! 🤣. How did you manage to get almost all of the free building Great Wonders? Great job! Feel like those go off the board often enough (built by other civs) that this is a tough achievement. I've only managed to get 3-4 max in any of my games.

What is a Cxx[x]xC settlement pattern?
 
Glad to hear u are on your way to a diplomatic victory. My guess is that you've possibly already won this game by now. ;).
No, not even close! I'm only partway through the second age!

TBH, with the successful exile of the Frostlings over the course of about 5 turns (I hit them on multiple fronts), the game has already reached the grind-y "I've won, but the game doesn't know it yet" stage, where mostly what I'm doing is shuffling Stewards round the boondocks, foresting, chopping useful buildings, and then mining/irrigating those towns' tiles while setting them to Wealth.

I'm currently also shipping a substantial stack of elite units over to the island I'm sharing with the Lizards, in the hope/expectation that Morgor will shortly do something stupid, and try to take that town from me. I want to take his 2 towns, plus a third island-town that's closer to the other continent, then make peace again.

I'll gift that 3rd town to the Andori (or the Naga), to ensure that they have somewhere to retreat to if Hyreil (who's currently running distant second to me in land + pop) ever decides to roll over them.
How did you manage to get almost all of the free building Great Wonders?
I "allowed" the AI-Civs to spend their shields on them — on my behalf! ;)

(Mainly the Ossirians, IIRC: you should have seen the 2-bit Jungle/Marsh town where she somehow managed to build the Gardens of TQ! No idea how, that town can't have built anything else!)

Only missed out on the Clafestian Mounds(? The Free-Windmills GW) because the Hobbits built it, over on the other continent.

...which reminds me, I still can't trade any resources with the Hobbits, Naga, Andori, or Lizards (Or Frostlings or Dark Elves — but that was my doing!), because no-one seems to have built their Harbour-SW yet. Being completely unable to trade makes improving the AI-Attitudes, and hence a Diplo-vic, much more difficult to achieve.

Sooo... it might be worth having a look at that building's requirements to see if they might reasonably be tweaked to encourage the AI to build it earlier (e.g. make it cheaper, or have it produce Veteran sea-units, or some [more] Culture, or only require a single Trading Post, i.e. in that town).
What is a Cxx[x]xC settlement pattern?
It's shorthand for the so-called "optimal city placement" (OCP) pattern, where each town ("C") is founded 3-4 tiles ("xx(x)x") away from its neighbours, allowing it access to (nearly) all 20 tiles within its FatCross with minimal/no overlap.

"Optimal" is in scare-quotes because this pattern is actually grossly inefficient in gameplay-terms. Since the ability to work the full 20 tiles is usually paywalled behind a late-game tech/building (Hospital in epic-Civ3, 'Duct in ToC), founding so loosely means that around half the tiles owned by any (AI-)Civ will not be worked during the more/most important (early) expansion/ consolidation phases of the game.

That is why I generally found my towns at CxxC, with maybe a bit more space (CxxxC) around my capital and FP-town. When I play epic Civ3, I'm usually happy to let most towns top out at Pop10-12: generally only my capital, FP-town and some/all 1st-ring towns will ever be given Hospitals (if I haven't already won the game before I learn the optional tech of Sanitation!).

While the problem is mitigated somewhat in mods where Size1 and Size2 settlements have been given higher pop-caps than in the epic-game (e.g. Pop7 and Pop13 in ToC, vs. Pop6 and Pop12, respectively), that only goes so far — because you still need some means of keeping all those people happy (or at least, not rioting!), preferably without ruining your economy.

Only in CCM and RARR is OCP actually useful/efficient, due to several factors:
(1) Settler-scarcity encourages the human player to grab as much land as possible with each new Settler
— CCM Settlers are only available via Palace auto-production (one per 20 turns, IIRC) for most of the first 3 ages
— RARR's Settler-type units are (very!) expensive (Pop2 + 30s, or Pop1 + 60s)
(2) Substantially adjusted .biq settings mean that towns reach size-caps earlier (or not all!):
— CCM Size1 settlements reach Pop10, Size2 reach Pop99 (Size3 does not exist, to avoid population-pollution)
— RARR's tile-yields are similar to the epic-game, but towns require 3 food per citizen and irrigation is not unlocked until halfway through the second era(!) so towns built on Grass/Plains will tend to stall out at Pop2-3 in the early game/ while still running Despotism (only towns with substantial bonus-food resources can grow larger)
...and both those mods have many additional changes to the mechanics, to accommodate these limitations.
 
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@tjs282
The Harbor issue for trading is something that I believe we might have discussed before. Hesitant to over motivate the AI to build Harbors, due to fear of lagging the game due to many trade route calculations between turns. However, C3X's latest patch (still in Beta) seems to have addressed this issue, so indeed I will most likely be increasing the likelihood of AI's building Harbors to alleviate the trade issue w/ AI's. Great suggestion, thanks!

Thanks for the explanation of settlement patterns. I see your point, although i despise despotism (which is why it's not in ToC), but it's nice to hear how other Mod's encourage bigger tile separation between cities. I've long thought about moving the aqueduct to an earlier portion of the 2nd era tech tree. You bring up a good point about happiness, but with all the happiness buildings available, plus any additional luxuries & luxury slider, it might be easier in ToC to allow for an earlier move to higher (Size 14+ populations) earlier in the game. I'd have to test though to check the balance.
How have you noticed this play our in your ToC games? Do you have issues getting happiness in cities? If you find it easy to get happiness, this would additionally lend more credence to moving the ToC aqueduct earlier in the tech tree.

I wish you the best of luck in your conquests!
 
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