Tips for using Great People?

[phizuol]

Philosophical is a trait I have always avoided because I never feel like I make effective use of great people. Some are pretty obvious like the great scientist building in your science city, but if I have an entire city (of high quality to boot) dedicated just to great people farming it seems like I should figure out how to get the most out of it.

I know that bulbing and missions are good, but I'll openly admit I most often settle my GP or build their buildings. I just have a real problem "using them up" even though I know it's sometimes the right thing to do. The only exception is that it's fun to hurry wonders.

So what are good ways to set up your GP farm? Set it up for one or two types of GP only or get as many GPP as possible and worry about what kind of GP you get when it happens? What kinds of things do you often do with your GP that make them feel worth getting? Bulbing seems pretty popular, but how many turns does it save you? It has never "wowed" me the few times I've tried it.

Well, really any advice is helpful. I want to try a Philosophical leader but I'm afraid at this point it might as well be an empty trait if I can't use it well.

 

[DaveMcW]

Build a library in a city with a food resource
Hire 2 scientists
Settle all great scientists in the capital (second one builds academy)

That's the basic strategy. Bulbing only works on high difficulties where there are AI techs to buy.

 

[phizuol]

Hrm, so I've been stressing about nothing I see. Thanks.

 

[Bruin.Bound]

There's nothing wrong with settling. If I am close to tech parity, I almost always settle them, as my games are usually late wins through space. Late in the game, I begin saving a few for any corporations I want to build. If I'm am going for a domination victory however, they can be helpful to keep up in tech, as bulbing something no one has can yield a huge result. Of course, if you need to get out of a tech hole they can be very helpful too, which is why they are useful for bulbing on deity and maybe even immortal depending on how you play. Its usually good to run one for a golden age when you want to do a major civic change. This is why some people value getting to music first, you can use that great artist for a golden age, at about the same time usually you want to do a switch to bureaucracy (wow how do you spell this word lol), maybe hereditary rule if you hadn't needed it before then, caste, and possibly pacifism depending on your play style. It seems common for a lot of people to generate a huge majority of their gp during this period (or it seems to me) while they race to lib and a little after, then they drop out of pacifism and build an army with rifles/ cannons. It seems to be a popular trend... that being said, I don't think I've used caste or pacifism in my last 10 games at all. So as long as you are using them effectively and know why you are choosing to bulb/ settle/ GA, you should be ok.

 

[phizuol]

I guess that's my problem, I don't really know why I'd be bulbing or settling necessarily. At least with this advice I have a better idea of what I could be doing and why. Thank you.

 

[smackthewise]

For many games I build the Mausoleum of Mausolus
*Setup my GP farm to pump out different types of GP. Merchants, Artists (rarely), Scientists.
*Hold them until around Nationalism.
*Go for GP techs, i.e. Music.

Often get four golden ages in succession (inc Taj Mahal), helps build Banks, Universities, Observatories, Wall Street and Oxford etc not to mention its just a lot of fun.

*Will Sometimes burn a early 1 GP GA earlier on to change civics and spur growth, not before the Mausoleum though :S

This obviously may not be the best use of them, but it can be pretty amazing for your empire regardless.

 

[Trev]

I have moved away from generating scientists for my great people, I will favour engineers, prophets and settle them for there hammer bonus and also Merchants for their food bonus as much as their money, 2 Merchants settled often mean an extra specialist in the city and faster great people.

 

[vormuir]

Minor tips:

-- Getting a Great Engineer at the right time can help you bulb Machinery. That's potentially very useful if you're going to war, since it unlocks Crossbows and puts you one step away from Maces. If you're at rough tech parity, beelining Macemen usually means one dead neighbor.

-- Getting a Great Scientist at just the right time can give you most of Education. This is key because Education is what stands between you and winning the Liberalism race -- it's a very expensive tech for its time, and the AIs often shy away from it.

-- In the early game, settled Prophets and Merchants are incredibly powerful. When you're at the 3-6 city size in the Classical period, a settled Prophet can mean the difference between 70% and 100% research. (This is why the Egyptian UB is better than it looks -- if you start in a location with a lot of food, you can get a Prophet settled amazingly fast.) Later on Prophets are pretty useless, but in primitive and Classical times they rock.

-- Don't forget founding religions; Prophets are often used to pop Theology, for Christianity. If you don't have a religion yet, and need one, it's great.

-- Golden Ages should be saved until at least the middle game, but then they're great. There's often a whole cluster of medieval and early modern civics changes. Use a GP to save three or four turns of anarchy.


Waldo

 

[artificialj]

Settle all great scientists in the capital (second one builds academy)

Dave - do you (or anyone reading) have the math on this? I've been trying to figure out, for ages, whether I should settle my first GS or build an academy.

 

[Windsor]

An academy needs 15 to go towards science to give the same amount of beakers as a settled GS(7.5). For each scientists the capital will run the needed goes down by 3.

So what I do is simply look at how much of the commerce my capital is generating that goes towards science and if there is something in the near future (like a goldmine that soon will be worked) that will raise the slider.

 

[Silu]

Dave - do you (or anyone reading) have the math on this? I've been trying to figure out, for ages, whether I should settle my first GS or build an academy.

I almost always build an Academy with the first one. Why? Because very often the 2nd and 3rd (sometimes 4th) end up bulbing things. So only settle if you are sure you can spare the 2nd for an Academy.

 

[Pinstar]

What if I have several commerce cities that are all generating a healthy amount? Wouldn't I want to make several academies in those several cities rather than just the one in my capital with a bunch of settled GSes?

 

[Bruin.Bound]

The function of academies and settled great scientists are both long term profits. So if you will profit more from putting an academy in a commerce city rather than settling a GS, then go for it. Keep in mind that you do not lose any output if you drop the science slider with a settled scientist however, so if you are going to be in any future wars it usually wiser to settle them in one city to keep research flowing.

 

[Woodreaux]

What if I have several commerce cities that are all generating a healthy amount? Wouldn't I want to make several academies in those several cities rather than just the one in my capital with a bunch of settled GSes?

I experimented with this in the World Builder. Academies in cities surrounded by towns with the all of the synergistic civics and boosting techs will generate enormous amounts of due to all of the , even without any specialists. However, this applies most in the late game and it requires the slider to be really cranked up (which it usually is anyway). However, settling n-1 GS in an Academy + Oxford city quickly catches up as n increase.

True, a GS produces 9 :science (without Representation):, while a riverside town under optimal conditions produces the same. However, these optimal conditions take a while to achieve. Concentrated GS settlement kicks in immediately. Earlier advantages are often bigger advantages. Also, each GS settled with an Academy will become twice as strong when Oxford is built, but in the distributed academy arrangement, only one of the cottaged cities will can receive that Oxford benefit.

 

[Windsor]

I experimented with this in the World Builder. Academies in cities surrounded by towns with the all of the synergistic civics and boosting techs will generate enormous amounts of due to all of the , even without any specialists. However, this applies most in the late game and it requires the slider to be really cranked up (which it usually is anyway). However, settling n-1 GS in an Academy + Oxford city quickly catches up as n increase.

The value of each settled GS does not increase as n increases. So it's still quite easy to find out what gives the best return.

The best return a GS will give is under representation with academy,library,university, oxford and observatory. Well, laboratories and seowyns do increase them a bit, but laboriatories are very late an the korean UB is a unique

So 9*3.25 = 29.25

A cottage city without specialists needs 60 towards science for a acamdemy to outperform the GS. If the GS isn't representation-powered the settled GS only gives 19.5 making secondary academies much more attractive.

 

[Indiansmoke]

The value of each settled GS does not increase as n increases. So it's still quite easy to find out what gives the best return.

The best return a GS will give is under representation with academy,library,university, oxford and observatory. Well, laboratories and seowyns do increase them a bit, but laboriatories are very late an the korean UB is a unique

So 9*3.25 = 29.25

A cottage city without specialists needs 60 towards science for a acamdemy to outperform the GS. If the GS isn't representation-powered the settled GS only gives 19.5 making secondary academies much more attractive.

60 base commerce is alot (9 towns + trade routes etc)... you will not have a city like that often.

 

[Negator_UK]

That's the basic strategy. Bulbing only works on high difficulties where there are AI techs to buy.

So all those games of bulbing edu then hoarding it were'nt so hot then

 

[Silu]

So all those games of bulbing edu then hoarding it were'nt so hot then

Bulbing Edu is always good IMO... since that gives you a leg up on making Oxford (which should always be done ASAP), and it's more rare to trade it right when you get it because of Lib so the AI trades aren't as important for it. Of course it also allows deeper Lib beelines...

 

[Woodreaux]

The value of each settled GS does not increase as n increases. So it's still quite easy to find out what gives the best return.

I know individual GS output don't change their output as the number grows, I'm referring to the difference in their effect on an entire civ's output for via settling them all but one in the Oxford city and using one for an Academy versus using all of them to build Academies in different cities. I don't believe it is a simple equation.

It's a multivariable problem. For a fully developed cottage economy, multiple Academies will outperform a stack of GS in the Oxford city as long as the slider is high enough. However, stacking all of your GS in the Oxford city will provide greater yields early on. Land improvements don't reach their peak yields until late Industrial Era techs are discovered. There's that and the challenge of getting all of the required infrastructure in place while developing all of those cottages into towns. It's certainly doable for a few cities, but for a large number it I envision it would the GS would be building Academies in places yielding suboptimal returns.

 

[pi-r8]

The value of each settled GS does not increase as n increases. So it's still quite easy to find out what gives the best return.

The best return a GS will give is under representation with academy,library,university, oxford and observatory. Well, laboratories and seowyns do increase them a bit, but laboriatories are very late an the korean UB is a unique

So 9*3.25 = 29.25

A cottage city without specialists needs 60 towards science for a acamdemy to outperform the GS. If the GS isn't representation-powered the settled GS only gives 19.5 making secondary academies much more attractive.

also, don't forget the bureaucracy bonus if you're doing this in the capital. That will help a lot.