TSG45 After Action Report

[lolagranola]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 45
Date submitted: 2012-10-13
Your name: Lolagranola
Game status: Science LOSS
Game date: 1980AD
Turns played: 403
Final score: 1055


- Did you use your UU and how successful was it?
I built a 2-3 beggars and eventually used them to get out of a war with Catherine by pressuring one of her cities.
- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage?
I didn't manage to get a religion and used the one spread to me, which had the happiness benefit for shrines. I did select a pantheon and I suspect it was a the research bonus for trade routes.
- Was the Polder improvement useful?
The polder seemed pretty useful. Those tiles certainly rocked once I got the full bonus.

I could use a little help. As I mentioned above, I think one mistake I made was allowing techs to be stolen left and right by the other Civs. I did have a spy in Amsterdam for the full game who would occasionally catch others but I didn't get on top of constables until very late. I suspect I need to value them more when I have the tech lead. I'm not sure, but judging from the other screen grabs, I suspect I made a mistake in settling scientists instead of bulbing. Any thoughts on that would be great. As well, it seems that other players here use partial policy trees and I obviously opt in going very deep.

I was done everything but the SS Engine when the UN vote came up. I actually hadn't been looking for it for a few reasons. First, Isabella was going culture and had 4 of 5 policies. That said, she was just starting into the last tree and I knew she wasn't going to win. Second, Elizabeth was expanding like mad having wiped out Rome entirely fairly early and she was my only tech-rival. I had completely forgot about diplo VC

I started off strong, building the same 4 cities I've seen in most of the posts. I aligned with Catherine and Boudica early with Napoleon pestering everyone. Eventually I was friendly with everyone and only Catherine DoW'd late as I was working on parts. I suspect this was because, having no uranium, I used a great general to eat into her and the CS territory to get at some and it ticked her off 2 battleships and a nuke settled it quickly, not that I had to.

I feel like I start strong and get muddled in the mid-game. Any thoughts would be SUPER appreciated. (My happiness was in the positive the whole time... it went negative as the city states got bought up during the UN voting period.)

 

[Suntechnique]

I could use a little help. As I mentioned above, I think one mistake I made was allowing techs to be stolen left and right by the other Civs. I did have a spy in Amsterdam for the full game who would occasionally catch others but I didn't get on top of constables until very late. I suspect I need to value them more when I have the tech lead. I'm not sure, but judging from the other screen grabs, I suspect I made a mistake in settling scientists instead of bulbing. Any thoughts on that would be great. As well, it seems that other players here use partial policy trees and I obviously opt in going very deep.

IMHO, settling more than 1 scientics is a waste. They just gives much more beacons by researching then you would get from building's output for the whole game.

Allowing tech to be stolen is not that much a problem if you are on top as it makes your RA cheaper

From policies point of view once you get to Renaissance you need to ignore all and take Rationalism policies on improving research. They are huge. It's even worth not investing to culture too much before Renaissance to make Rationalism policies cheaper.

 

[caeru71]

Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1954AD
Turns played: 374
Base score: 1524
Final score: 2059

Thanks for the game.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

@lolagranola: on emperor, you should shoot for science victories well under 400 turns. to do this requires some timing for wonder, policies, RAs, and Great People.

Great People:
Assuming you want to get Hubble, that's 2 GSs and a spaceship factory. Also, you should strive for Pisa and/or Porcelain Tower, preferably PT for the RA bonus and free GS. (I usually settle this GS as its around t150-160 and it's the last one I settle.) That's 3-4 later game GSs that dont require generation from cities. All others will be from specialist generation which should be 6-8 more if you think about 3-4 cities all with 4 science specialists. I usually settle 2-4 GSs pre-turn 150-180 (4 if I'm Babylon but usually less with other civs). After that I hold onto them for bulbing the last few techs. Also, If you get a religion you can usually faith purchase 2 more GSs.

Wonders:
The Great Library can be nice but it isn't really necessary. You can get a free early tech and a library for about the same cost (turn-wise) as settler/library or worker/library. In the long run settler and worker are better than an early tech. You also get a Scientist point early but it's not that huge late game for GS generation. getting your infrastructure up early is better than that wonder, plus AI prioritizes GL and can still snipe it before you on Emperor. PT, Pisa, and Hubble are really good to get and hubble should really be a guarantee as by Satellites tech you should be in a solid lead to not worry about it getting sniped from you. Other wonders worth taking are situational. Oracle is very nice for the free policy if it times a Tradition finish for the free aqueducts (and great city growth) and so the next policy comes up when you hit Renaissance for Rationalism. Other wonders can be useful for happiness/golden ages/food growth like Hanging Gardens. usually i try for Forbidden Palace because HG is gotten early and the happiness bonus translates into more growth for your cities. But I also pass it up for other buildings.

Policies:
In general you can think 12-14 policies all game long, less if you want to go 6+ cities. Thats 6 per tree so can finish 2 trees plus maybe another one or two. If you go 4-city Tradition you will have 4 strong tall cities and that leaves you 6-8 more for whatever else you want. You can go full Rationalism for the sci bonuses but not all are necessary other than to get the RA bonus, Uni bonus and 2 free techs. The rest are nice but not game changers. The other solid path is to open Rationalism then go to Order for the Opener and then the Factory bonus. Get up 4 factories in yer cities (trade for the coal or ally a CS). After the 2 in Order you can go back to Rationalism for the specialist bonus and Uni bonus. When you open Order you can also faith purchase a GE and use it on Hubble to shave off even more turns. After that is up to you. (Because Oracle policy is truly free--doesnt add to you overall policy costs--if you can time it right you could get into Rationalism with it but if not you could open Patronage for slower CS degradation.)

RAs:
This can be a bit more complicated because there are some known bugs making them either huge or fizzle. Assuming they all go just fine, you can sign many RAs (10+) in a game pretty easy. (Even when I do none of them are huge and 2-3 of them fizzle.) Think about timing Porcelain Tower to finish before the first wave (1-3 RAs) you sign so they can get the bonus. Sometimes my first RA finishes Education so I can start it and the others are timed with it. It's also okay to have it take effect for the 2nd wave. The remaining RAs are just to time so that you can get multiple lower techs or finish a tech like Radio or Plastics. Keep an eye on them by having multiple techs queued up or otherwise the tech you only had one turn left on will finish and it will randomly assign where the overflow went or randomly finish another lower tech. The RA bonus from Rationalism is usually late enough that you might only get a bonus on 1 or 2 more RAs unless you time it really well. If you are using spies to steal techs, try to not steal from AI you have RAs with. When I do it and, say, not move my spy out of there when they ask me, my RAs generally fizzle. I think it has to do with diplo changes from those decisions but I'm not sure.

If you dont want to spend a lot of time on RAs you can instead use that money to buy CSs and take some policies in Patronage. They will provide the extra food so you can run more specialists or give you the extra happiness for growth or culture/faith/units so you dont need to build the buildings or units yourself. The science bonus from CSs from Patronage isnt worth getting, but the opener and gold benefit bonus are worth it if you want to go CS heavy. Keep in mind, after Renaissance era, you are usually overpaying for RAs so that money can go further than you think with CSs.

Regarding other things to improve the vic times, they can be found in many threads here. This should only help you get to t300 or less victories. To get under t250 will require some more micromanagement and skills that many of the better players know.

It's a giant brick of text but I hope it helps a little. I am this bored today, haha.

 

[Sadato]

My first submission!
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1750AD
Turns played: 260
Base score: 956
Final score: 1838
Time played: 3:40

Spoiler :

I played at full speed, completed the game in less than 4 hours, so many things a bit sloppy.
I founded 4 cities and ignored AIs, I even had 2 unknown AIs until turn 150.

It was quite fun although at Emperor AIs are so poor that it is quite costly to sign RAs with them.

 

[i_am_memory]

Your name: i_am_memory
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1948AD
Turns played: 368
Base score: 1603
Final score: 2195
Time played: 5:40:00

I don't know what to say. I should have done massively better, and I don't know how you guys do it. When I tell you how this game went, you will call me a noob for not being done 200 turns earlier.

Everything went perfectly. I had four civs loving me on my continent, and even managed to get two others from the other continent. I had a total of somewhere around 12 RA's. I had a religion and took money and production. I stole two techs. I planned Oxford perfectly. I had GL and PTower, and about 15 other wonders. I had about 9 great scientists. I had three cities which were huge. No wars, until the end. Started Tradition, jumped to free settler, finished tradition, started and finished rationalization (planned bonus two techs perfectly).

So why 368 turns? I have no idea. On my tech I focused on GL, then Hanging Gardens, then Civil, then Education, then beelined it for Rocketry when all my RA were coming due. So what took so long? Any suggestions?

Did I focus too early on Rocketry? Help! I do know that I left two of my cities focused on food for too long; should have shifted to science much earlier.

 

[flairin]

well before I bulb I try to be at around 800 bpt... Maybe you weren't at enough BPT if/when you bulbed?? Also you should probably have more cities...

My first try I finished at around t300 and second under t300 without any RA's... just bulbed. Each time I had 6 core cities plus one or two capital puppets... the first was Liberty focused the second was Tradition focused. In both examples I started bulbing at around t260 with around 800 bpt

 

[Maxym]

Buy all science buildings: uni, public and labs with cash as soon as you pop the tech. Assign specialists to science slots as soon a you can and never remove them until you finish researching. Bulb 8 turns after plastics and settle 4 or more cities. Less SP before ratio,since you will finish 100 turns earlier your rationalism tree finisher popped too late, 270 is a decent time to finish it.

 

[ense7en]

- Did you use your UU and how successful was it?
- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage?
- Was the Polder improvement useful?

Game: Civ5 GOTM 45
Date submitted: 2012-10-16
Reference number: 27445
Your name: ense7en
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1850AD
Turns played: 295
Base score: 1324
Final score: 2244
Time played: 9:19:00

UU: Privateers are awesome, but were entirely unneeded in this game as i was peaceful for all but a very short war.

Religion/spying: Took a mix of beliefs-
Stone Circles: +2 Faith from Quarries
Tithe: +1 Gold for every 4 followers of this religion
Feed the World: Shrines and Temples provide +1 Food each in city
Itinerant Preachers: Religion spreads to cities 30% further away

I was ahead in tech since Medieval so i used spy for sitting in capital mostly, and later mostly for rigging elections in the nearby city states.

Polders are awesome. Made my capital monstrous as i had TEN within range of my capital until i replaced two with wells (oil).


I quite enjoyed this game.

I settled in place. Got four cities up, though i took my time doing so.
Got every wonder i really wanted and more, excepting Chitzen Itza, which i missed by one turn
I focused on growing my cities as much as possible.

I think i built maybe three military units all game. City states kept me overly well supplied with units all game long.

When i discovered the only nearby coal was around Moscow i decided to jump into war with Cathy (who had been dealing w/ France and the Celts and sometimes Spain and was already in trouble). Grabbed Moscow and then made peace. Only war of the whole game i was in.

I really messed up on social policy timing. I finished Tradition with the Oracle free policy but then had pick another before i'd entered Medieval, so i couldn't go Patronage or Commerce. I took Liberty opener (horrible). Then i had to take another before Rationalism and took Commerce opener.
Then all Rationalism since by the end my BPT was insane and i didn't matter what i took really.

My area

Spoiler :

I didn't really time things all that well, was finished the tech tree way before i could finish building all the parts.

Spoiler :

Policies

Spoiler :

Demographics

Spoiler :

Capital

Spoiler :

Max potential BPT. I was doing just over 1400 for the last part of the game, but at the end i set all the cities to science to see what the max i could output was

Spoiler :

 

[tommynt]

turn 215 win,
doh this took ages.
No cultural CS on all map made the endgame a pain - I figured it way too late, and there was no way I could boost my own culture enough to get all the wanted sp.

So I ended up with 3 in Rati (left side)
and 1 in order to get the engineer for hubble.

Ais on my content were unbelievable weak and I took Russia, France and Celts cap with some from MCS gifted units. Anexed Moscow right away and when I figured I needed boost my tech more I also anaexed Paris and bought science buildings - gave me nearly 100 much needed bakkers.

Apart that I did normal 4 city Traditon start with cities at obvious spots.
Settled on flood plains at coast cause I didnt figure how op Flood plains with dutch get later on ....

In end it kinda worked out well - 10 turns with 7 Cities filled all specialist slots, and some trade posts gave me a bakker peak at 1500 in turn 200 where I poped like 8 scientist in a row and with only 1 city building Louvre and cap appolo I kept science high for later pops

btw stole tiles from city state at the dye city with a citadel - got me like -60 influence - but so what - some nice prod tiles there ... I m so pro

Once I figured the lack of Cultural CS I wondered very often how things d have went with going liberty, could have gotten some sp more, expanded bit faster and d not have strugled with happynes that bad - was allways a nail biter to keep cities happy somehow - but then the grow from Tradition is just op - cap ended at size 35 I think

edit: and oh yeah wondered also often if not the +2 faith per stoneworks d have been better as god of seas - I rush bought stuff anyway mainly the the lost shields mgith not have been a real loss and with more early religion I could have gone for pagodas - but going for pagoda when imporving religion 2nd time in like indu era is pointless cause they get so damn expensive

 

[trewqh]

Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1967AD
Turns played: 387
Base score: 1766
Final score: 2293
Time played: 6:52:00

Hi, everyone!

Not the first TSG I completed, but the first one I decided to submit. I'm more of a lurker than a participant, but the unofficial ranking motivated me to submit.

Not happy with my result at all, but still I had some fun with the game.

I'm doing TSG46 tomorrow.

 

[leif erikson]

Welcome to CivFanatics and GOTM.

Glad you decided to join us and submit. Best of luck in future.

 

[Half Nelson]

Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1816AD
Turns played: 279
Base score: 1972
Final score: 3585

Not too bad, but growth was slow to accelerate until Polders were available. I settled cities around the sea resources which was probably a mistake in hindsight as they are time-consuming to develop. Had no luck with RA (2 zero-beaker duds out of 3, costing about 12 turns) and waited too long before bulbing my GS train:- I reached over 1200 bpt with 6 core cities before rattling through the later techs and could have done it several turns earlier. Unfortunately I still have little feeling for how RA/GS bulbing operates since the last patch nor how bpt overflow stacks. I launched within 12 turns of completing Apollo, which was an improvement over my last Science effort. I also enjoyed warring in this game because the AI were extremely unhelpful and received their just desserts at the hands of my military.

I learnt more about religious pressure due to the efforts of the Celts, also how difficult it is to expunge a well-entrenched religion.

 

[Hieschen]

Finished my first GOTM

Game: Civ5 GOTM 45
Date submitted: 2012-10-21
Reference number: 27496
Your name: Hieschen
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1938AD
Turns played: 358
Base score: 1525
Final score: 2147
Time played: 10:30:00

Was a very interesting experience, will def do again.

I am pretty impressed with the people finishing sub 290. I am at a loss how you did this... I suppose for my game, i could have shaved off easily 30 turns by managing the start better, which was muddled. Got my game together around turn 100 and sailed through. Learned a lot with the setup and how to use certain CS (i tended to more or less ignore the militaristic CS)

I completely ignored religion, though i got enough faith generated from wonders to bey 2 GS in the course of the game.

Polders rock, esp after Guild, I am impressed. Never used the Sea Beggar, didn't see how he could help me in a meaningful way

Played a 4 cities tradition game, finished rationalism, tradition and patronage, went pretty deep into commerce.

Pat

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

Congrats and Welcome! It's always nice to see new additions post their results. Thanks for participating and posting.

 

[Kyfe]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 45
Date submitted: 2012-10-22
Reference number: 27508
Your name: Kyfe
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1923AD
Turns played: 343
Base score: 2228
Final score: 3276
Time played: 6:03:00
Submitted save: GoM 45.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Kyfe_C504501.Civ5Save

The Celts, France, Russia, and Spain pretty much hated me the entire game, so there was no opportunity for Research Agreements with them, so I conquered all but Spain and used them for added research.

England conquered Rome before I could even discover them, and Gustavas a couple turns after I found them, though I was able to get a couple hundred gold from them through trade beforehand.

England really liked me and I completed 4 (I believe) Research Agreements with them, even though towards the beginning of finding them, I discovered Intrigue that said they were sending a naval force to attack Dublin. It never arrived, and this was before my first Research Agreement was completed.

All in all, I believe this was probably the most optimal starting location for the Dutch, as soon as you could build Polders. I had to invest a lot of time and resources into an army early on to deal with the DoW from Spain, Celts, and France fairly early. An army of CB, upgraded to Crossbowman shortly before taking the Celts, and then upgraded to Gatling Guns to take Russia and France.

 

[shooter6947]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 45
Date submitted: 2012-10-25
Reference number: 27530
Your name: shooter6947
Game status: Diplomacy Loss
Game date: 1988AD
Turns played: 408
Base score: 2369
Final score: 2369

Somehow, early on I managed to not appreciate that it was Emperor. So I got DoW'ed by Russia and the Celts simultaneously. They took two of my southern cities and were knocking on the door of my capital. Lost another city to one of their city-state allies, who burned it.

Given this, I'm pleased to have come as close as I did. I was 2 turns or so away from the last SS part, and I had 3 SS boosters en route to the capital when Elizabeth won the UN vote. She had gobs of money, and had conquered the entire western continent.

After my near-death experience, I got more serious about defense. I conquered Russia. France conquered the Celts. Later on, the French DoWed me, and eventually took a straight-up peace. Then the DoWed me again, and I went ape$#!+ on them, pursuing them down to the last city and wiping them from the face of the planet. In retrospect I probably shouldn't have been so zealous about this, since it meant that I wasn't focusing on science or production needed for my SS. But dangit, they didn't deserve to live. *sigh*. My anger was my undoing. . .

 

[Arnold_T]

Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1735AD
Turns played: 257
Base score: 2004
Final score: 3929

Not a terrible finish, but kind of a sloppy game. too much warring and conquering. didn't do one single Research Agreement - guess I should have.
I also blew the Culture and Social Policy management on this one. Ended up with all Liberty, two in Tradition, two in Order, but missed the Rationalism finisher.
Also didn't finish Oxford in time to help with victory time.
Probably just should have stuck with the 4-6 city Tradition strategy. I had 16 cities in the end. Also sold some other extra (Spanish cities to Sweden). I was pumping out science at 2047 beakers per turn on the last turn though!

re: - Did you use your UU and how successful was it?
huh? UU? didn't build it.

Re:- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage?
religion was great for happiness, got two Great Scientists from it at the end. Spying wasn't much help. stole only one tech from England before even she ran dry.

Re:- Was the Polder improvement useful?
yes, awesome!

fun game, thanks Leif!

 

[DaveMcW]

Link to video.

 

[ense7en]

Link to video.

Thanx for sharing.

I am curious about your use of great scientists.

You had some sitting around for 60+ turns IIRC. Is it really more beneficial to wait 60+ turns to bulb them than to plant them?