UK Politics V - Have We Got News For You

[Gorbles]

These leftists-without-education, the post-hippe champagne left

Look how the old now-conservative guard look at the new

Truly illuminating. The bit about borders being necessary as well. inno sliding his own own politics in under the guise of apparent "old" leftism.

When people define leftism as a reaction to their own dislike of immigrants, it twists things. Irretrievably, in some cases. But hey! It gets support from right-wingers

 

[Arakhor]

I've never heard "the global north" being defined before, but it's going to be places north of the Equator and I'd hazard a guess that it's the new version of "non-Third World" countries, so Europe, the Anglosphere, Japan etc.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Afghanistan, Bangladesh and Gaza are all north of the equator.

 

[Snowygerry]

It is a psychological construct I think, like the "Elite" on personal a level, the Global North exists mainly in the psyche of the people that not consider themselves to be part of it...

Together they allow the individual to feel aggrieved at all times, whatever happens

 

[Arakhor]

Afghanistan, Bangladesh and Gaza are all north of the equator.

And so is all of West Africa and much of Asia. You clearly missed the point of the second half of the sentence.

 

[EnglishEdward]

@ Arakhor

You provided two contradictory definitions.

I can only be bothered to debate one at a time.

 

[Gorbles]

@ Arakhor

You provided two contradictory definitions.

I can only be bothered to debate one at a time.

Counterpoint: what you're doing is irrelevant grandstanding because there wasn't really anything wrong with Arakhor's suggestion. Just like Snowgerry's, they're all just guessing at the meaning that wasn't given by the poster at the time.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Nick723 de facto raised an open question in this thread about Sunak and the Rwanda policy.

I gave him my honest instant opinion.

And Innonimatu gave his opinion too.

But you, @ Gorbles, you don't give him your opinion
on his question, all you do is take a swipe at my
comments; e.g. trying to paint me as some rightist.

This trait of yours is quite noticeable.

 

[Gorbles]

I gave an opinion on the policy as well, but you must have missed it in your haste to attack my motivations (again).

And yes, you're right-wing. You are clearly and plainly right-wing as evidenced by any political discussion you've ever been a part of on here. Your only sympathies for Corbyn extend as far as his Euroskepticism, and on top of that: why do you care? I'm left-wing. What is so bad, in your opinion, with being called right-wing?

 

[Snowygerry]

Does being called "right-wing" in the UK imply you're part of the "ruling" class ? And left-wing the "working" class ?

Or do you no longer use those clasifications ?

Edit, I found this online, anyone here agree ?

Paid by the week, rent your house - working class.
Paid by the month, own your own house - middle class.
Don't have to work, inherited your house, plus estate - upper class.

Eric Robbie, Stroud, Glos.

How should we define working class, middle class and upper class? | Notes and Queries | guardian.co.uk

www.theguardian.com

 

[Gorbles]

Does being called "right-wing" in the UK imply you're part of the "ruling" class ? And left-wing the "working" class ?

Or do you no longer use those clasifications ?

Nah, it doesn't work like that.

For example, the Labour Party itself was originally for the working class, and not specifically left-wing. It drifted that way as the Conservatives established themselves (more and more) as right-wing, which lead to the modern tension between left-wingers and pro-workers' rights right-wingers (within Labour).

(for those keeping count, the right-wing faction won with Blair and New Labour, and won again with Starmer, and decided the overall direction of the party in both cases)

"left-wing" and "right-wing" here generally refer to a combination of a person's position on cultural and economic political issues.

 

[Farm Boy]

Like race though, definitely something a 3rd party stamps on people according to thier own whims, so I'd take it for what it's worth.

 

[Snowygerry]

Nah, it doesn't work like that.

For example, the Labour Party itself was originally for the working class, and not specifically left-wing. It drifted that way as the Conservatives established themselves (more and more) as right-wing, which lead to the modern tension between left-wingers and pro-workers' rights right-wingers (within Labour).

(for those keeping count, the right-wing faction won with Blair and New Labour, and won again with Starmer, and decided the overall direction of the party in both cases)

"left-wing" and "right-wing" here generally refer to a combination of a person's position on cultural and economic political issues.

In this case - immigration ?

There is not enough migration (to the UK) = left wing. There is too much migration = right wing ?

There is just enough migration = elite

 

[Gorbles]

In this case - immigration ?

There is not enough migration (to the UK) = left wing. There is too much migration = right wing ?

There is just enough migration = elite

I wouldn't say a left-wing position would be too little immigration. It's just that they wouldn't be concerned with as a platform position. Or they consider the actual problem to be downstream (housing, council funding, tax rates, etc).

The right-wing position (which thanks to the Overton window is kinda bleeding across the centre) is that there is too much, yeah.

 

[Lexicus]

The left-wing position on immigration is that if you heal the world of its many hurts then people won't need to move around in large numbers.

 

[Snowygerry]

That would suggest the problem lies "upstream" not downstream like like Gorbles writes, above.

"We can hardly hope to "heal" the entire world, we should mind our own and manipulate immigration (control it) to a level that suits us."

Is that left or right wing ?

 

[Gorbles]

That would suggest the problem lies "upstream" not downstream like like Gorbles writes, above.

"We can hardly hope to "heal" the entire world, we should mind our own and manipulate immigration (control it) to a level that suits us."

Is that left or right wing ?

That's individual vs. individual, which is getting away somewhat from UK politics. In UK politics, immigration is already controlled (as I mentioned a page or two back). Pursuing a policy of controlling it more is right-wing, and arguably given that a right-wing government has been in power for 14 years, so is pursuing the status quo.

 

[Lexicus]

Is that left or right wing ?

Depends. Generally gonna be right-wing in practice though.

 

[Snowygerry]

So the logical left position (in the UK) is pursuing a policy of controlling it less ?

That is what I said above, no ?

Or for example the EU position, promoting immigration from some countries, and restricting it from others..

 

[Gorbles]

So the logical left position (in the UK) is pursuing a policy of controlling it less ?

If a party wants to pursue it, sure. But again, like I said r.e. the Overton window, it's generally better to leave it alone and pursue other policy positions.