Unique Powers mod in progress...need ideas

[dragodon64]

Byzantines: +2 from each city

Russia: -50% Settler build cost and distance maintenance cost

Netherlands: +2 per coastal city

India: +1 per non-state religion in city

Mongolia: -75% unit maintenance cost

Aztec: +2, and in every city for each vassal

Ottomans: +1 draftable unit in capital each turn for each vassal

Zulu: Remove all foregin culture from city upon conquest

Japan: -10% tech cost for each civ that knows the tech, up to 50%

I really like a lot of your ideas. I do think that Babylon and Native America have powers that are too strong, tho. Maybe -50% and only +1 .

 

[Chiyu]

I think this is a brilliant idea! But if you remove the traits completely, how will there be any distinction between several leaders of one civ?

Since I'm a historian myself, I'll try to come up with some suggestions provided with historical arguments for the ones for which you don't have anything yet ...


Byzantium
There are a several ways to go with Byzantium. First, the Byzantine emperors perceived themselves as Roman emperors and the concept of "empire" was still very strong. Secondly, they were very orthodox Christians, so you could have something related to that. Thirdly, the Byzantine emperors often tried to reconquer lost territory (Justinian for instance reconquered parts of Italy). They really tried hard to restore the territory and glory of the Roman Empire. So maybe you could give them an attack bonus for attacking cities that were once theirs? I don't know if that's possible, but it surely would be original .


Celts
The Celts are quite difficult since we barely know anything about them. Most of the information we have comes from a Roman (and thus biased) point of view. They also wrote about celtic druids. Perhaps you could do something with druidism/animism (the belief that all entities, including plants, rocks etc. have a soul). For instance, forests granting extra production or happiness to your cities.


Ethiopia
Well, this was one of the few parts of Africa not colonized in the 20th century (Italian occupation doesn't count)... And according to the Civilopedia entry, the muslims frequently tried to spread their religion in Ethiopia, but kept failing until the 16th century as well. So I'd suggest giving them units with better city defense. Although that isn't really very original.. Maybe we could give every city +X% defense for every X% culture or something?


Holy Roman Empire
Since the HRE was not a centralized state but mostly a collection of various states over which the emperor had only nominal control, it should be something related to vassalage. How about making all vassals stronger - to symbolize their individual vitality and strength while officially being part of an 'empire' - much in the way like tsentom's Topkapi Palace wonder does?


Maya
I don't know too much about the Mayans, but perhaps you could take an idea from the MesoAmerica mod that came with BtS? Some examples from that mod are the ability ability to capture units in combat instead of killing them and the ability to sacrifice units for a culture or happiness bonus.


Netherlands
Obviously something involving water or with being a very early republic. Maybe giving them the power to have all early ships being able to enter the ocean, at the risk of sinking, like Civ3 ships. This might be a bit overpowered in maps with a lot of water though. Otherwise, maybe we could have them start with having the Representation civic available?



PS: I strongly recommend you to keep Greece's bonus related to culture or great people. Some of them may have been great fighters (the Spartan way of life and the Theban innovations for the phalanx), but that's not what they were remembered for during the centuries to follow. During the entire history of the Roman Empire and the Middle Ages, the corpus of Greek texts kept having a huge influence. Up until the Enlightment (18th century) we could say that (in western civilization, of course): "Culture = Greco-Roman thought + Christianity". Trust me on this one .

 

[musicfreak]

Wow, thanks for all the replies! Sorry, I don't have time to comment on each suggestion, so I'll just pick some.

Russia: -50% Settler build cost and distance maintenance cost

Oh yeah, I didn't think about decreasing settler costs. That's a good idea actually. Added.

Netherlands: +2 per coastal city

I was actually thinking +100% trade route yield for colonial (not on the same continent as the capital) cities, or something like that. Thoughts?

India: +1 per non-state religion in city

Good idea, added.

Japan: -10% tech cost for each civ that knows the tech, up to 50%

Ooo, I really like the idea, but 10% is terribly high. I'll set it to 5% for now, and after I get a playtest going, we'll see if that needs tweaking.

I really like a lot of your ideas. I do think that Babylon and Native America have powers that are too strong, tho. Maybe -50% and only +1 .

Thanks. And yeah, I wasn't sure about the Native American one, I wanted input. Changed both.

I think this is a brilliant idea! But if you remove the traits completely, how will there be any distinction between several leaders of one civ?

Thank you! To answer your question, there won't be. It will be purely cosmetic, just like in RFC. I may tweak each civ's power for each leader in the future, but that's thinking too far ahead I think.

Since I'm a historian myself, I'll try to come up with some suggestions provided with historical arguments for the ones for which you don't have anything yet ...

Awesome! I could use a historian for this.

Byzantium
There are a several ways to go with Byzantium. First, the Byzantine emperors perceived themselves as Roman emperors and the concept of "empire" was still very strong. Secondly, they were very orthodox Christians, so you could have something related to that. Thirdly, the Byzantine emperors often tried to reconquer lost territory (Justinian for instance reconquered parts of Italy). They really tried hard to restore the territory and glory of the Roman Empire. So maybe you could give them an attack bonus for attacking cities that were once theirs? I don't know if that's possible, but it surely would be original .

I like that last idea (and yes, it's possible). I don't know how I'd balance that... Any ideas?

Celts
The Celts are quite difficult since we barely know anything about them. Most of the information we have comes from a Roman (and thus biased) point of view. They also wrote about celtic druids. Perhaps you could do something with druidism/animism (the belief that all entities, including plants, rocks etc. have a soul). For instance, forests granting extra production or happiness to your cities.

Yeah, I left it blank because I couldn't find any useful historical information on them. But I like the forest idea. Perhaps all forests and jungles +1 happiness? Or +0.5 happiness or something to that effect.

Ethiopia
Well, this was one of the few parts of Africa not colonized in the 20th century (Italian occupation doesn't count)... And according to the Civilopedia entry, the muslims frequently tried to spread their religion in Ethiopia, but kept failing until the 16th century as well. So I'd suggest giving them units with better city defense. Although that isn't really very original.. Maybe we could give every city +X% defense for every X% culture or something?

Or perhaps double city defense from culture? (The number can be tweaked, I just need a general idea. Same applies to all of these.)

Holy Roman Empire
Since the HRE was not a centralized state but mostly a collection of various states over which the emperor had only nominal control, it should be something related to vassalage. How about making all vassals stronger - to symbolize their individual vitality and strength while officially being part of an 'empire' - much in the way like tsentom's Topkapi Palace wonder does?

What do you mean by "stronger"? I'll take a look at that Topkapi Palace later to see what you're talking about. I like the idea, but then what do you suggest for the Aztecs and Ottoman Empire? Because they both, at this point, are likely going to have vassal-related powers, and I don't want to many of the same thing.

Maya
I don't know too much about the Mayans, but perhaps you could take an idea from the MesoAmerica mod that came with BtS? Some examples from that mod are the ability ability to capture units in combat instead of killing them and the ability to sacrifice units for a culture or happiness bonus.

Well, to be honest I don't really want to add features to the game, I just want to enhance a certain feature for each civ in the game. I don't want to add something new just for use by that one civilization. Does that make sense? It's just a lot of needless work. But I will take a look at the mod.

Netherlands
Obviously something involving water or with being a very early republic. Maybe giving them the power to have all early ships being able to enter the ocean, at the risk of sinking, like Civ3 ships. This might be a bit overpowered in maps with a lot of water though. Otherwise, maybe we could have them start with having the Representation civic available?

I was thinking extra trade route yield for colonial cities. Did the Dutch have a lot of colonies historically? Or should I rather do something related to ships?

PS: I strongly recommend you to keep Greece's bonus related to culture or great people. Some of them may have been great fighters (the Spartan way of life and the Theban innovations for the phalanx), but that's not what they were remembered for during the centuries to follow. During the entire history of the Roman Empire and the Middle Ages, the corpus of Greek texts kept having a huge influence. Up until the Enlightment (18th century) we could say that (in western civilization, of course): "Culture = Greco-Roman thought + Christianity". Trust me on this one .

Haha alright, I'll take your word for it. I'll probably just leave it as +100% Great People birth rate, as lame as that is. Or maybe something along the lines of +2 GPP in every city, but I don't know how balanced that would be.


Once again, thank you everyone for the ideas!

 

[Chiyu]

Glad you like the ideas .


Celts: The problem is that both 1 happiness per forest or 0.5 forest per forest would be overpowered, if your city is surrounded by 20 forest tiles . Unless you give it a maximum of 5 additional happiness...

Ethiopia: That would work .

Holy Roman Empire: Well, with stronger vassals I mean that their vassals get production and/or experience bonuses, instead of the master - and if your vassals are better, you can also take better advantage of them .. Otherwise, we could always give one of them lower maintenance costs for vassals.
As for the Ottomans: perhaps giving them a chance to build the unique unit of your vassals? That sort of symbolizes how they got the exotic Janissaries (slaves and prisoners from conquered states) in their army.

Maya: I see.. Since you said you wanted to do something scientific, how about giving them a few free beakers for every time they use slavery? That might be an original idea . Or a small increase in research every 5 or 10 turns.

Netherlands: It's hard to explain. Even though the Dutch went to many places and built settlements and such, they didn't really colonize those places in the traditional sense of the word. In fact, they just went to those places to set up trade, to make money . The VOC (Dutch East India trading company) never cared about about getting colonies, in a manner like the Spanish and Portuguese were doing. The Dutch actually resented that in order to keep making money, they had to start getting involved with politics at Java (Indonesia; their main interest). My professor used the term 'reluctant imperialism' to describe this process. From the early 18th century onwards, they were slowly getting "sucked in" the process of colonization, against their will.
Actually, they only began to subject the other islands of Indonesia between 1850 and 1900, well after the Golden 17th Age has ended! So even though they were left with plenty of colonies in the 20th century (Indonesia, Suriname and the Dutch Antilles), they didn't originally go to those places for that purpose. Know what I mean?
So, to keep a long story short: don't give them a bonus related to colonial affairs. A bonus for ships or a bonus for trade in general would be better .

 

[mujambee]

Just had the idea that England could have no colonial costs, so you are free to build cities wherever you want them.

 

[mechaerik]

That would be insanely powerful on archipelago (lots of colonies on other islands) maps.
Combined with Protective Redcoats, thats almost unbelievably strong.

 

[PsiCorps]

Since when did they have such a good air force?

since they beat the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain, at phenomenal odds against them, don't you learn history at school?

You touched a raw nerve there , i'm ex RAF.

 

[mechaerik]

The spitfire is such an amazing plane. However, i would prefer some naval bonus to the British, but i think Mujambee may have the right idea, but it would definitely need balancing.

 

[jlc102127]

for germany you could have the power of blitzkrieg, and all units start with blitz.
america- the power of minutemen- gunpowder units start with woodsman and city garrison (not sure about this one).

maybe, so that there is still diversity between leaders, you could have it like the new colonization, where each civ has 1 trait for both leaders, and then the leaders each had 1 unique trait (like the two spanish had conquistador)

speaking of which, the spanish could have gunpowder get a bonus against melee and acrhery units.
china, the power of ninjas, the spies can attack units of other countries, maybe you could add this as a mission for china. this one is just for fun and because i am bored.

 

[mechaerik]

Ninjas are from japan.

 

[Contox]

Romes could be something like +100% movement on roads
the whole empire was basically held stable by their roads

 

[musicfreak]

since they beat the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain, at phenomenal odds against them, don't you learn history at school?

You touched a raw nerve there , i'm ex RAF.

Oh, sorry, haha no we haven't ever learned British history (I live in the U.S., 'nuff said). I'm sorry for my ignorance. (I'd say "American ignorance" but I'm not American myself, so that doesn't work. I can still make fun of the American education system though. ) Anyway, on the topic, the problem with giving a bonus to air units is that it doesn't really kick in until the modern age, which seems a little late to me. I'd rather have something to do with their navy because that lasts the entire game, or perhaps colonies (again, for the same reason).

china, the power of ninjas, the spies can attack units of other countries, maybe you could add this as a mission for china.

Ninjas are from japan.

I laughed.

Just had the idea that England could have no colonial costs, so you are free to build cities wherever you want them.

I actually really like the idea, but like mechaerik said, it would need balancing to make it fair. I'll see what I can come up with.

Celts: The problem is that both 1 happiness per forest or 0.5 forest per forest would be overpowered, if your city is surrounded by 20 forest tiles . Unless you give it a maximum of 5 additional happiness...

Yeah, I thought of that, but I still like the idea. I'd just need to balance it in a way that's not unfair (and at the same time not completely useless).

Netherlands: It's hard to explain. Even though the Dutch went to many places and built settlements and such, they didn't really colonize those places in the traditional sense of the word. In fact, they just went to those places to set up trade, to make money . The VOC (Dutch East India trading company) never cared about about getting colonies, in a manner like the Spanish and Portuguese were doing. The Dutch actually resented that in order to keep making money, they had to start getting involved with politics at Java (Indonesia; their main interest). My professor used the term 'reluctant imperialism' to describe this process. From the early 18th century onwards, they were slowly getting "sucked in" the process of colonization, against their will.
Actually, they only began to subject the other islands of Indonesia between 1850 and 1900, well after the Golden 17th Age has ended! So even though they were left with plenty of colonies in the 20th century (Indonesia, Suriname and the Dutch Antilles), they didn't originally go to those places for that purpose. Know what I mean?
So, to keep a long story short: don't give them a bonus related to colonial affairs. A bonus for ships or a bonus for trade in general would be better .

Alright, I'll make it something along the lines of +100% trade route yield for coastal cities.

Romes could be something like +100% movement on roads
the whole empire was basically held stable by their roads

Well the only reason I didn't use that power is the fact that Rhye is using it in his mod, and I didn't want to steal his idea. But if we can't think of a better one, I have no problem with using it.

Holy Roman Empire: Well, with stronger vassals I mean that their vassals get production and/or experience bonuses, instead of the master - and if your vassals are better, you can also take better advantage of them .. Otherwise, we could always give one of them lower maintenance costs for vassals.
As for the Ottomans: perhaps giving them a chance to build the unique unit of your vassals? That sort of symbolizes how they got the exotic Janissaries (slaves and prisoners from conquered states) in their army.

Well, your vassals getting bonuses wouldn't directly help you at all (it would indirectly, but even then, not by much, it would only make your vassals stronger rivals when they break free). I could make maintenance lower for the HRE and find another power for the Ottomans. I don't really like the UU power you suggested (no offense), but I like where you're going with it. I don't know, maybe a production/commerce bonus for every vassal? I'll think about it.

Maya: I see.. Since you said you wanted to do something scientific, how about giving them a few free beakers for every time they use slavery? That might be an original idea . Or a small increase in research every 5 or 10 turns.

Well I wanted to do something scientific because that's the only thing I know about them that stands out. I'd take any suggestions. I like your slavery idea, but that's limited to the Slavery civic... Is there any way to expand on that?



Needless to say, thanks again everyone!

 

[dragodon64]

Sorry to repeat the ideas, but the vassal stuff for the Aztecs, Ottomans and Holy Romans could be resolved through:

Aztec: +2, and in every city for each vassal (to represent the tribute they exacted from their subjects)

Ottomans: +1 draftable unit in capital each turn for each vassal (this means that if at the moment you could draft a rifleman, then at the beginning of each turn, you would get a rifleman in your capital, representing the janissary troops they accumulated from their states)

HRE: -50% maintenance cost for vassals and/or relationship bonus with vassals (they were able to keep their vassals w/o a lot of the treasury-draining a lot of other empires did; the relationship stuff is just convenient bonus, the HRE was wracked with personal power struggles)

P.S.- I think the exact values on some of these are very flexible, but the concepts are the important parts. Thanks for considering the choiced so open-mindedly, I think this is going to turn out great!

 

[musicfreak]

Thanks for considering the choiced so open-mindedly, I think this is going to turn out great!

Hah no problem, I was actually afraid I was being too picky. Thanks for the help.

Aztec: +2, and in every city for each vassal (to represent the tribute they exacted from their subjects)

Yes, I do like that idea. Sorry I missed it earlier. Added to the list. (Although, if at all possible, I would like to do something non-vassal-related.)

Ottomans: +1 draftable unit in capital each turn for each vassal (this means that if at the moment you could draft a rifleman, then at the beginning of each turn, you would get a rifleman in your capital, representing the janissary troops they accumulated from their states)

Very original idea, this is probably going to be the power that makes it into the mod.

HRE: -50% maintenance cost for vassals and/or relationship bonus with vassals (they were able to keep their vassals w/o a lot of the treasury-draining a lot of other empires did; the vassal stuff is just convenient bonus, the HRE was wracked with personal power struggles)

Yeah, that's what I'll probably end up doing (-50% maintenance) because it makes the most sense for them. A relationship bonus doesn't make sense because you get a huge one just for being their master.

As I mentioned before, I'd like to keep the number of vassal-related UPs to a minimum, because not every civ in the game is going to be someone's vassal (if that makes any sense). I like the ideas for the HRE and Ottoman Empire, so I'll probably keep those (unless something better pops up), but I'd like to change the Aztec's power to something else. However, I don't know much about their history so I can't really come up with anything interesting. Any thoughts? Anything? Thanks!

 

[mujambee]

... but I'd like to change the Aztec's power to something else. However, I don't know much about their history so I can't really come up with anything interesting. Any thoughts? Anything? Thanks!

The so called Aztec Empire was nothing of that sort. They where only the preeminent part of a coalition of three city-states that existed in the Mexico valley (where the DF is now).

That coalition had so overwhelming military power that they could vassalize all surrounding states and make them pay a yearly tribute.

Those vassal states where vassals only in the fact that they had to pay that tribute; otherwise they where free states with their own politics and military, with no Aztec interference.

That's why I believe that the Aztecs, above all, must have a vassal bonus.

 

[Firestorm94]

The so called Aztec Empire was nothing of that sort. They where only the preeminent part of a coalition of three city-states that existed in the Mexico valley (where the DF is now).

That coalition had so overwhelming military power that they could vassalize all surrounding states and make them pay a yearly tribute.

Those vassal states where vassals only in the fact that they had to pay that tribute; otherwise they where free states with their own politics and military, with no Aztec interference.

That's why I believe that the Aztecs, above all, must have a vassal bonus.

maybe more tributes that the vassal must accept. IIRC you get 1 free trade that they can't refuse. Maybe his ability can give 2-3 more.

 

[musicfreak]

The so called Aztec Empire was nothing of that sort. They where only the preeminent part of a coalition of three city-states that existed in the Mexico valley (where the DF is now).

That coalition had so overwhelming military power that they could vassalize all surrounding states and make them pay a yearly tribute.

Those vassal states where vassals only in the fact that they had to pay that tribute; otherwise they where free states with their own politics and military, with no Aztec interference.

That's why I believe that the Aztecs, above all, must have a vassal bonus.

Okay, I see. I'll keep it as the suggestion then, and (after playtesting) if there's a problem, I'll change the Ottoman Empire's.

 

[jlc102127]

Ninjas are from japan.

good point.
japan- the power of ninjas- spies can attack.

i still think you should do what colonization does and have 1 civ trait and each leader have 1 individual trait.

 

[Deego3]

How about some of these:

Mongolia: All units start with +10% city attack

Holy Roman Empire: No neagative diplomatic points for vassels.

Byzantium: Easier to get a civ to declare war against another civ (the Crusades)

 

[musicfreak]

i still think you should do what colonization does and have 1 civ trait and each leader have 1 individual trait.

Again, that's long-term, I won't be thinking about that until I actually get something done.

Mongolia: All units start with +10% city attack

I was thinking just all military units start with City Raider I (+20% city attack).

Holy Roman Empire: No neagative diplomatic points for vassels.

Byzantium: Easier to get a civ to declare war against another civ (the Crusades)

The problem with those is they both relate to the AI; I want all my powers to work in multiplayer as well.


As always, thanks for the replies. I've had a ton of homework lately and thus I may not reply anytime soon. (Don't let that stop you from replying though!) Just an FYI.