us again

[lymond]

Need save.

Man, that is nasty. At least we haven't met an AI yet so maybe we won't get too boxed in. This is not an iso start, right?

bbp - is the idea here to 1 pop the worker into a settler? Do we build the worker to 1 turn or just whip as soon as BW is done? I had assumed originally that we would grow to size 4 and 2 pop the worker.

Anyway, I will wait on doing a plan until I see the save. Is the idea to go Sailing>Masonry to start GLH?

edit: that is some dead man's land up there. we can't even settle in such a way to share the clams.

 

[babybluepants]

Oops, forgot the save. Can't do it now, sorry. Tonight...

The idea was to potentially 1pop into a settler, yes. We're CHA, so I care less about 1 angry face. We could also just finish the worker and 2pop a settler later. Then again, given the land, we might not want a settler.

Sailing-Masonry is an option. Not many players have sounded off on GLH yet.

 

[shyuhe]

City center + grass hill + plains hill = 9 base hammers for a 200 hammer wonder. We'd have to chop pretty aggressively to get a shot at it (combined with some aggressive 2 pop whip overflow). Then again, our land is markedly worse than our last game so I'd be up for giving it a shot. We only need two warrior to keep us safe from barbs anyways, and we can park both of them in forests.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

we might not want a settler... Not many players have sounded off on GLH yet.

If you don't want a Settler, then you do you really want The Great Lighthouse? The Great Lighthouse provides 0 additional Trade Routes if you haven't met an AI and have 2 or less Cities.

 

[mystyfly]

I don't think GLH is a good idea especially since it's a tricky wonder to get that sometimes gets built late but also sometimes very fast.

Will have a closer look after the save is online.

BTW would you like to be added to the roster, dhoomstriker?

 

[Dhoomstriker]

BTW would you like to be added to the roster, dhoomstriker?

Thanks for the offer but I'm happy to be a (noisy) fly on the wall.

 

[babybluepants]

Sorry, guys. Long day at work. Here's the save...

 

[mystyfly]

Pretty sure we're not isolated, that landmass is looking pretty big.

We probably won't have a lot of useful tiles and maintenance will be a PITA. God I hate coastal starts.

We can't do much more than scout northwards. I'd do bw > wheel / ah/archery depending on copper.

I repeat myself but I still don't think GLH is a good idea.

Remember, we're expansive so hammers get a production boost when building workers (but not food). Right now it doesn't make a difference in washington as we're at 4 base hammers but sometime later it might.

 

[lymond]

man, this is a dot-mapping nightmare. there's just a huge swath of ass land to the north and west. Decent city near the fish, which I guess should be our 2nd city, but I'm not sure quite where to settle it. Do we settle the fish further south to pick up a few of the bits of land just north of the cap or settle it such that it is a better overall city.

here is a bit of a dotmap:

Spoiler :

Obviously the cities just north are just crap and we shouldn't think of settling them anytime soon unless we actually build GLH and make them coastal. City A seems the obvious next city. I hate settling on a riverside GH, but the city does pull in the ivory and another riverside GH. Plus, we can cottage up this city for some commerce or farm if we go SE.

Stone city is a bit perplexing. There is jungle up north so maybe we will find some bananas to help feed the city, but it can't be irrigated as is. We could settle 1E or on the stone and share some farms with City A, essentially making the stone city non-coastal though.


By the way, I'm not opposed to GLH. It can be risky, but may be a good option to make our poor land situation better with trade routes.

Also, I still think POT>Writing with an AH skip may be better for us. Sheep is the only AH resource visible and not strong enough to warrant AH. However, if we don't pop copper then maybe AH is best to see if we have horses. Seems we should have another resource around here.

If we pop copper, I don't think we need Archery.

Right now my plan is to build the worker to 1 turn when BW comes in. Switch to Slavery and whip the worker into a Settler. After 1 turn of Settler, start a warrior. Worker chops GH forest which will go into settler and then worker mines GH. Finish settler. While worker mines GH, when we grow to pop 3 I will work the PH. (Should I work some turns of the lake though for a bit more commerce and faster growth)

Team needs to discuss Tech Path and whether we go GLH or not. Sailing might be better next anyway to hook up trade route without building a road across all that desert. Otherwise, I go TW>POT or AH.

edit: Exploring > I will send the Warrior a bit East and then back up North and West to reveal land above the stone. Then pull him back to spawnbust/defend City A. If we don't meet anyone, we might consider an exploring WB.

 

[mystyfly]

I don't understand that dotmapping-fanatism. I mean, I'm not against dotmapping. But not when you have practically zero information. We know no strat resource whatsoever. We know nothing about AIs. If we meet someone we'll want to settle as far up north as possible to seal off as much land as we can. So concrete city sites needn't be discussed until the settler approaches the vicinity or at least not until the settler is built. We're far from that. So much could change until that time.

I'm not going to give an opinion on MM in washington as I have no feeling for coastal starts, no clue what is best. I would think slotting in another WB would be nice. What I do know however, we'll need a couple of warriors (4+) if we rely on them, or we get screwed by barbs. IMO you should continue until BW is in, bbp, then we can make a lot more concrete plans. 23t for the first set is not long.

 

[lymond]

mysty - that dotmap is by no means meant to be "concrete". It's just to give a feel for what we have seen so far and maybe start thinking about where we want to settle next. Obviously, as you mentioned, factors like popping resources and proximity of the AI will adjust things dramatically. And even then I don't claim to be a master dotmapper. I just put it out there for us to think about and discuss in a bit.

I'm fine if bbp wants to finish out BW

 

[babybluepants]

Sure, I can finish it. Unfortunately, I won't be able to play 'till tmr. The reason I stopped here is so we could consider whether to whip the worker or just finish it. Also, the warrior is hurt and won't do more exploring 'till BW.

TBH, this game seems impossible to me right now. 1 food resource outside of the capital... GLH at least gives us something useful from a few totally crappy cities, so I guess I'm still slightly in favour of it.

 

[mystyfly]

Well, let's delay abandonning it at least until we know a little more than just now... 18t is quite early for such a decision but I know what you mean...

 

[babybluepants]

Didn't mean to abandon it, no. Just saying I'm not sure how to play this.

Anyway, I just played out 4t to BW. Worker is at 56/60, so we can still decide. Warrior got chased at 1.7 strength. There is, ofc, no copper visible.

lymond's up now.

We need to decide on GLH. I think we can build it circa T52-56 depending on how aggressively we chop. That's not too, too bad.

We can hope and pray for another fish on the SE tip, which would give us 3 cities (also NE fish and sheep-share) + something with stone. Pathetic, but it is what it is. The jungle is all over N, and I would assume 2 AIs are settling into it by 1000 BC.

Fogbusting: I'd prefer to skip AH, whether we go TW-Pott-Wtg or Sail-Maso. We can bust the peninsula up to jungle pretty easily, right?

 

[Thrar]

I'm in favor of Sailing->Masonry, trying for GLH. With the crappy land we have north of Washington we might as well settle coastal and get some trade route income. Lymond's city A is nice, but other than that it looks bad. If the jungle is not too wide we might get some better cities up there, but it'll be a pain to block off the peninsula if we go too far north.

I don't see a point in getting writing soon, tbh. We'll need Washington on settler production and don't want to run scientists too much. An academy there would be nice early on but actually somewhat wasted later as it doesn't look like it could become a high commerce city.

If we go that route I think we should play at least until GLH comes in and reassess the situation.

 

[shyuhe]

Our land sucks from a commerce standpoint, so we will need pottery or writing fairly soon. Or the GLH.

 

[babybluepants]

@lymond's dot map:
I'd go 1E of A to avoid needing a monument. It gets an extra hill and we're EXP so fresh water doesn't matter. "hoping for bananas" is probably right. We should plant a city NNE of sheep, so we can use the sheep there. Otherwise, I don't really see anything worth settling, unless it's simply for GLH commerce.

Edit: I think I've worked out a T56 GLH with 3 chops or T55 with 4 or T53 with 5 chops. Not sure though, since I haven't calculated the research times to Sailing and Masonry very precisely. Can someone else have a look?

 

[lymond]

Ah yes, that does make sense about settling for the fish in the first ring. I wasn't thinking. This makes a city 1N of the stone or on the stone more viable as it picks up some green. However, we may want that city coastal though if we go GLH.

So do I switch to slavery this turn and whip the worker into a settler, or just let the worker finish?

Sailing/Masonry vs. TW/POT

I'm thinking GLH may be the only way to make this game viable. My plan would be to pursue Sailing/Masonry unless this is opposed. Sailing would allow for immediate trade routes with the fact that early cities will be settled at quite some distance and over desert as well.

Besides that:

1) Either finish worker or whip worker into settler
2) If I just finish worker, I will start 2 or 3 more warrior builds while putting a chop into a settler. I will chop the GH and then mine it.
3) Once sailing is finish, I will start on the LH. This may time nicely to the first settler. Maybe doing a 2 pop settler whip for max OF into the LH. Put another chop to finish the LH.
4) I think my TS will be over before starting GLH, but I'll report if anything changes
5) Also, we may want to work in a WB scout since it doesn't look like we will get far with scouting on land.

 

[Thrar]

I don't think we need to put any whip overflow or chops into the regular LH. It's just a 2 pop whip in itself. Of course we could put one chop into it and then whip for 2 pop, essentially putting the chop hammers into the next build (GLH).

Whipping the worker into settler sounds good to me , we have so much food for growth anyway.

 

[kossin]

Wow that's ugly a lot.

Don't settle filler cities unless you have GLH, they're not worth the hammers and upkeep otherwise.