[UXP] Legends of Revolutions

[Lord Parkin]

All of the tweaks I approve of, except for this one:

Pyramids now unlock labor civics instead of government civics

Yes the Pyramids are powerful, but they're also extremely expensive and far from buildable in every game - especially on higher difficulties and/or non-"manufactured" starts.

Also, after having played for 6+ years with the Pyramids unlocking the Government branch, changing it just seems weird and unnecessary.

Good job on the other stuff though.

 

[bestbrian]

I don't agree with many of the changes in your mod, but I just won't use it then.

Thanks for putting the effort in to keep things moving.

 

[Chronis]

All of the tweaks I approve of, except for this one:
Yes the Pyramids are powerful, but they're also extremely expensive and far from buildable in every game - especially on higher difficulties and/or non-"manufactured" starts.

This is the change I was least comfortable with. It was by far the most dramatic of the tweaks.

My problem with the pyramids was that while they are expensive I never felt they were expensive enough to justify all their benefits.
1) Rare great engineer points
2) +3 beakers from each great person for rest of game
3) +3 happiness in first 5 starting cities in the critical period where it matters most
4) Massive early stability bonus removing any concern for early revolutions

However, after thinking it over I agree with you. Its too dramatic of a change. Version 1.1 will be up later today. It will incrase the cost of building pyramids slightly but return them to unlocking government civics.

Edit: Version 1.1 is up with changes to pyramids scaled back. Version 1.1 can be downloaded here
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=11240264#post11240264

 

[Chronis]

I don't agree with many of the changes in your mod

If you have time I would ask that you read the linked posts that explain the balance issues that convinced me to make these tweaks.

If you still disagree with them I am very interested to hear why. The goal of this mod is to make minor modifications to optimize balance in what is already a very well balanced product.

Make a convincing case that one of my changes does not improve balance and I will get rid of it.

 

[Bloodstone]

First off, thanks for taking the time to keep a great Mod a on the front page, and for doing so in a manner that allows people to accept the changes or not.

When I first read your change on my not so smart phone I thought "why does this need any changes!", but time, thought and reading the posts you cited has obviously led me to realize that your work is an effort to add some things that people might want. For that I thank you and am grateful.

I'm also really happy you switched the mids back, as was expressed it's a challenge to get through to it already (at least on Immortal and above), and adds a certain flavor to the Revolutions and their management which can at times be game changing if you pursue that strategy.

EDIT: Chronis, not sure if you know but the links to the first and third threads you have listed in your initial post are not working.

 

[Lord Parkin]

This is the change I was least comfortable with. It was by far the most dramatic of the tweaks.

My problem with the pyramids was that while they are expensive I never felt they were expensive enough to justify all their benefits.
1) Rare great engineer points
2) +3 beakers from each great person for rest of game
3) +3 happiness in first 5 starting cities in the critical period where it matters most
4) Massive early stability bonus removing any concern for early revolutions

However, after thinking it over I agree with you. Its too dramatic of a change. Version 1.1 will be up later today. It will incrase the cost of building pyramids slightly but return them to unlocking government civics.

Edit: Version 1.1 is up with changes to pyramids scaled back. Version 1.1 can be downloaded here
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=11240264#post11240264

Thanks, great stuff.

 

[Chronis]

EDIT: Chronis, not sure if you know but the links to the first and third threads you have listed in your initial post are not working.

Links working now thanks for letting me know

 

[Rodnok]

What about removing the stability bonus from Representation? It already gives plenty of advantages. This would weaken Pyramids (increasing the cost isnt a solution really) and give more chance for revolts later.
I may do it myself for me and play a game with that, but I play Marathon and dont have much time, so this could take long ;-)

 

[blunt3d]

I don't know if this has been suggested here but i think the "Super Forts Mod" would be a nice add-on to the LOR mod. What do you guys think?

 

[zouflain]

I love LoR, and I've been playing it for quite a while. I am curious about the decisions that lead to the balancing of the government civics. It's difficult, I realize, to change anything: the sequence of choices is integrated into the tech ladder, and thus there must be motivations for players to change from earlier choices to later ones. At present, however, it really favors "politically correct" civics choices and ignores historical examples where those systems were largely successful. Essentially, the only viable way to have any large area under your control is to beeline monarchy into representation/universal suffrage. Despotism, for example, is the closest civic to the Empire of Rome and yet you are punished to such an extreme extent for keeping it that it's a mandatory civics change. It's ironic that the West toppled, arguably, due to its inability to continue expanding (which was the basis for its economy) whereas that civic almost guarantees an early loss to rebellion if you have it and expand.

Should the civics be changed, such that they actually afford differences in playstyle without favoring one particular route over another? Can they be made to reflect the best examples thereof while maintaining playability?

I would love to see greater expansionist influences on stability. For instance, reducing despotism's instability penalty whenever a new city enters your control (via conquest), but a severe gain of instability whenever you are excessively passive (thus, like Rome, you conquer until you die and/or change). This would keep the player interested in changing civics, but at least make it a playstyle choice rather than a forced decision.

 

[Milith]

Hello !

I have discovered Legends of Revolution(s ?) a couple weeks ago and i'm really thrilled by all the depth it adds to the game. I always favored Terra-like maps where there is plenty of unoccupied land just waiting to be colonized, and this mod really changes the dynamics for this kind of game, in the way I always wanted it to be. I love it when a game starts with 12 civs and goes up to 25 by the end of Renaissance, when most of the colonies start to struggle for their independence. Regional balance is created among these new civs as they struggle against their motherland while trying to gain some influence over other ancient colonies as well as aboriginal civs. Plus it's a real challenge from a warmonger's perspective to conquer and keep together a large empire, while on standard BtS it was really easy and once you had a decent lead it just snowballed easily to domination victory. One thing that i find is lacking though is clear indicators on stability with numbers in it. I know they are here somewhere but i just can't find the figures i'm looking for. Either i'm dumb (which is a totally legit possibility) or the UI still needs a couple changes.

I also love the influence you get over tiles while warring near them. I'm pretty sure i tried a mod that had this added a couple years ago. But then, i still feel it deserves some tweaking. Last game i made, i played Rome and didn't have any bronze or iron to work with. But my neighbor had an iron spot just on the other side of the frontier. The issue was i was never able to take his city because of PRO archer stack on hill, although he couldn't beat me on open field. The only solution i found out to the issue was to DoW - Pillage - Peace 3 times in a row till i got enough influence on that tile for it to become mine. It really felt weird, maybe some extra mechanism should be added, like influence gained by making your troops sit on the tile or something ("occupied territory" anyone ?). But then it would lead to complex AI modifications so it wouldn't be too easy for human players to snag resources from the AI, i don't know.

Then there are those Legendary units that i actually find fairly underpowered, but that's probably because i haven't played the mod enough to figure out their usefulness.

There are still various features i haven't really tried, like this new religious victory condition and the all the inquisition mechanisms, again that's something i really felt was missing from the game and i'm looking forward to trying it.

Anyway, thanks for the good work you put on this mod, i'm recommending it to all my civ4-playing-buddies, including those pesky ones who only swear by FFH.

Cheers !

 

[strijder20]

Then there are those Legendary units that i actually find fairly underpowered, but that's probably because i haven't played the mod enough to figure out their usefulness.

Try building the Legio X, adding a GG to it and using it as clean-up after your siege. That's triple GG-cultural influence

 

[Milith]

Try building the Legio X, adding a GG to it and using it as clean-up after your siege. That's triple GG-cultural influence

Oooh clever, i didn't even realize there was a GG bonus in influence driven wars. I'll definitely try it out.

 

[MyungHee]

I think it might be mixed with a dreadnaught animation or something, but if you in particular haven't seen it, it makes me scratch my head and question my memory.

I play with animations on.

Here's a screenshot and save game file of it... your memory is intact. It's pretty jarring actually. I'm surprised not many others have witnessed this or that there's not a bug fix for this?

 

[D!CK_VII]

hmm i have a few PBEM games running found a bug or 2:

May 08, 2012, 08:22 AM #41
Nighthawk419
Prince



Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by D!CK_VII
so you have the oracle but didnt get your tech?
Thats correct, my Persia built it, it let me select a tech, I picked it and then got that message and I definitely don't have the tech...

I am getting the great prophet points and the culture, but the free tech was well planned by me and I lost out on that. Urgh
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May 08, 2012, 08:31 AM #42
DogBoy
Deity



Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ft. Gordon, GA
Posts: 2,481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthawk419
Thats correct, my Persia built it, it let me select a tech, I picked it and then got that message and I definitely don't have the tech...

I am getting the great prophet points and the culture, but the free tech was well planned by me and I lost out on that. Urgh
That does suck. That free tech can be a huge bonus.

I have noticed another bug. Not game breaking, but still annoying. Sometimes when I start my turn it says "city has built a musketman". Only thing is I didn't build a musketman, I built an archer. Or I built something else. It doesn't always says musketman, it says different things. Doesn't happen often but it's still annoying.
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[Rusty Edge]

Here's a screenshot and save game file of it... your memory is intact. It's pretty jarring actually. I'm surprised not many others have witnessed this or that there's not a bug fix for this?

Thank you very much!

It kind of ruined my immersion when the Bug appeared. Whenever I played trying to re-create that bug, it wouldn't happen and it ruined my immersion trying to trigger it instead of playing for the fun of it.

 

[Gicusan]

I agree with most updates to the mod. I play this on regular bases for many years and it is still my favorite mod. I do Deity games mostly and some of those changes will make my life harder as some will make it easier (not really: as if I care about defending bonuses. if I am in the position to defend for too long I am on the right path to lose that game. The AI will benefit much more from it.)

But the worst when playing Deity with ruthless AI is not allowing me to upgrade my macemen to grenadiers, or at least, worst case scenario rifles which come decently later. I build them up throughout the game for this purpose in many games. I cannot overwhelm an enemy with numbers on this setting so I have to do it with well trained units. Can you at least make this as an option or something? I will still play it but I have a feeling my winning % will go down fast.

 

[Jellly]

Hey I noticed in some screen shots of player's game they would have dynamic names such as: City States, Tribe, Kingdom etc. In all my games every civilization is the NAME Empire. And it never changes even if I select different civics. Is there an option I need to select somewhere or is this just a bug?

 

[bestbrian]

Hey I noticed in some screen shots of player's game they would have dynamic names such as: City States, Tribe, Kingdom etc. In all my games every civilization is the NAME Empire. And it never changes even if I select different civics. Is there an option I need to select somewhere or is this just a bug?

I believe that would be the Dynamic Civ Names Mod, or something to that effect. It should be available in your LoR options screen.

 

[Jellly]

I believe that would be the Dynamic Civ Names Mod, or something to that effect. It should be available in your LoR options screen.

When I go to the main menu in the LoR screen and select Advanced then Options there does not seem to be anything to toggle on/off regarding dynamic names? If you could be a little more specific it would be greatly appreciated! And thanks for the quick reply