Victory conditions

[Wheldrake]

I've now played two games through to an industrial victory. And you know what? It's mildly disappointing.

I usually try to build fairly large empires, with a dozen cities or so. I know for victory over the ref, I'll need lots of soldiers and dragoons, so I get a lot of cities busy building tools and guns. I'll need a fair spot of cash to get there too, and to get the right specialists for all those cities, so I pump out as many coats, cigars, rum and cloth as I can. But inevitably, many turns before I'm ready to declare independence, I'll hit the industrial victory threshold.

While I like -in theory - the idea of having alternate ways to win, this just doesn't feel right. The only way I can play to an independence victory is to head into the WoI largely unprepared! Because if I do the right preparation, I'll be into industrial victory every time.

IMHO, either the industrial victory theshold is too low - way too low - or the very concept is flawed. Perhaps the alternate victory conditions just don't work, as currently implemented.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

 

[Dale]

That's why you're playing them, to help set the levels.

 

[Zomgmeister]

I actually agree with Wheldrake. My recent New France was awesome. I declared Independence almost as soon as I could, and in a few turns - before Fleet of Doom even appeared - I got Industrial Victory due to new bonuses to production of all patriotic-minded free-willed people.

Is it (and Trade victory) scaled with scenario speed?

Probably something more complex should be required in case of Industrial Victory. Certain amount of buildings as prerequisite, for example.

 

[Dale]

Well, I can't remember if the scaling got into 1.05 or not. But it definitely scales in 1.06.

 

[Zomgmeister]

Just checked it in my trusty 1.05. It is the same for Normal and Marathon speed. Seems like it is intended for normal in its' current numbers, because it is trivial to get on Marathon (where all the fun is).

Great to know that it is already fixed for 1.06, though!

 

[Dale]

Yes, in 1.06 the numbers for trade, industrial and plunder are 120000, 6000 & 300000.

 

[ashley26ph2003]

Does victory condition applies to all levels?

In Epic or Marathon I win mostly Industrial
Normal Independence

I have more income when playing longer

 

[Wheldrake]

Just a progress report on the victory condition scene.

In my most recent game I had ten very large cities and perhaps another 8-10 small ones, just to house my exploding population. I was producing huge amounts of goods, especially tools & guns, and starting to build a decent navy, so that I could experiment with trying to sink a few REF ships. I saw the Spaniards nearby, with like 4-6 units garrisoned in each city, and thought "naaah, why bother." Until they decided to declare war on my favorite indian tribe, situated mostly between us, on whom I depended for training my units. It was time for war with Spain. A couple canons and a dozen dragoons were enough to take out theirr cities one by one. And I was looking forward to a good battle with a huge REF force.

Then BLAMMO!!!

Industrial victory.

I guess in future games I need to simply uncheck those victory options. But they do seem far, far too easy to attain.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

 

[Jabie]

One option might be to add a proviso to the Industrial / Economic conditions that you cannot be in a War of Independence when you trigger them.

 

[Jabie]

Yes, in 1.06 the numbers for trade, industrial and plunder are 120000, 6000 & 300000.

Do they scale with difficulty level?

 

[Wheldrake]

Playing as the French under 1.06, normal speed, huge faireweather map, I reached an industrial victory waaaay before I was ready to declare independence. Perhaps it's my play style: I like to create large empires.

Industrial victory in 1623, 19 cities (2 ~ size 20, 7 size 10-13, 5 size 6-8, 5 smaller), 39% of population supporting independence.

I expect I would have played for another 50-70 turns before declaring independence, just to have a massive defending force.

Note that in this game, I removed all the other competing colonials from the game, with a force of 2-4 dragoons and 2-3 canons. The English were the hardest, as they had 2-3 soldiers in each of their 5 cities. Still, by bombarding with the canons until the defence bonus is down to zero, I had minimal losses; IIRC 2 dragoons out of four for the attack on the English.

As I stated before, although the idea of having alternate victory conditions is nice in theory, it seems kind of a shame to win such a long time before being ready to declare independence. I had started cranking up my coastal cities to build a navy capable of fighting off the King's man'o'wars... it's hard to imagine being able to create a decent navy before the WoI *without* crossing the industrial victory threshold, simply because it takes so much productive power to build warships.

IMHO the industrial victory threshold should be at least doubled. I was at 2200 production compared to the 2000 threshold (the turn after victory) and yet had only 17,700 towards the 40,000 threashold for a trade victory. One thing that must have helped a lot with the production target was having nearly all the top end FFs - since I had eliminated the competing colonials.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake