[WARLORDS] Nyomod

GRM7584 · May 2, 2007

Build V.004 is out.

Highlights include:
-Around a dozen new unit graphics, many of them completely new units to help fill out the renaissance era or make cultures more unique.
-Building graphic problem fixed...all buildings should display correctly now (except the academy, which is a real bugger...)
-Tech system revamped...Tech Trading is no more. Your early game tech progress will be slowed or speeded almost exclusively depending on the percentage of other civs you are in contact with. This may be expanded on later with python systems (tech leak, etc.) but I find it more enjoyable than the "check for trades every turn" approach of vanilla.
-Various rebalancings: techs, wonders, and religions that were not coming at appropriate times have been pushed closer to the desired time frame through AI coaxing and cost adjustment.

Edit: Eheheh. As it turns out, there were a few tweaky bits I forgot on the new units and some of the relationships they changed. Tech requirements, upgrade lines, strengths, etc. I have reuploaded V.004 with the mini-fixes necessary. Mention something if you see any units that are strangely unbalanced in the new (11.47 PM Eastern Time, May 2nd) mini-release...I'm not perfect, and might have missed one or two <_>.

Spoiler First Post Copy of changes :

Brave Sir Robin · May 3, 2007

GRM
had a busy day today. d/l ver DD.04 & finished my first game with
V.02 !

first the finished game .Played as mehmed won space race 2002
mon- epic-blue marble two large cont.
the new balancing of epic was quite good but, fredrick built the appollo program in 1877 :eek:

.you still need a bunch of techs to build your ship ,and the AI was its normal incompetent self so i won the space race by one turn over kubilia by pillaging three tiles with spys where he was building the last part

.Maybe move the apollo program to spaceflight from rocketry for more realistic timing ?
also both mech inf -tanks were built around 1850 :scared:

Obviously this is about 85 years to early (or so) not sure how to fix that but i did notice there are some new units in V 4 that might make that come out better
Also i think that Kublia is somewhat over powered because he is the only leader to have fin + 10 % coin & expansive -25 maint cost yikes

Ok first impressions of V.4
NO TECH TRADING :mad:

I HATE THIS IDEA !!!!!!!!!

tho it is clear from your notes that this is what you want from your mod .Tech trading has been an intregal part of civ since 1990 (civ 1)
In cIV it is an important part of diplomacy & how you choose to position your self versus the AI. You said you played at emperor I am curious to see how anyone can keep up in the tech race at emperor and above without being able to beeline and backfill techs.
since it is an option currently available to anyone in the custom game screen ,PLEASE reconsider the decision to make it the only way the game is played.
of course i say this with out having played this way :lol:

so I am going to give V.4 a try (already started with liz

)

GRM7584 · May 3, 2007

Brave Sir Robin said:
NO TECH TRADINGI HATE THIS IDEA !!!!!!!!!

Heh. It is primarily to see if its possible to run the game that way. I like tech trading, but I hate the necessity of it; like you said, it is integral to keeping up on higher difficulties, and the main reason that new players strain at lower difficulties, because it is so counter-intuitive...having to go in and check a screen every single turn, or every few turns if you want to gamble, is very unpleasant for me. If other players actually like doing that, I'll put it back in at an earlier point on the tech tree.
If I could make the process automated, or have it require open borders (Above-mentioned tech leak), I probably would take that route instead.
As to how one keeps up on emperor now? Its tough, but doable...the more tech choices there are, the better a human is at picking what's best. Also, the AI's edge in unit upgrading is significantly reduced, due to upgrade costs actually being in an affordable range. Slower expansion at the beginning also makes it possible for a human player to keep up with the AI (which will not overextend itself).

As to diplomacy: It is still vital, because trade (open borders) is vital and far more profitable than warlords. The trick is, you can't just gift a bunch of techs and then be buddies with someone. You need to have an edge somewhere...help someone in a war, pick the same civics and stick with them, use religion to your advantage. In vanilla, I found that diplomacy was completely dominated by tech trading...I can turn down a hundred threats, requests, and demands and it doesn't matter so long as I'm a solid tech trading partner.

Alright, enough about tech trading. Tech costs and timeframes: this should be improved in V.004. Early techs have been reduced in cost across the board, and late techs have been increased in cost across the board, to help deal with the ~Education boost (which is further propelled by the completion of monasteries of the various religions, all of which will be founded by the High Middle Ages). V.004 also sports a dramatic improvement in religion founding date dynamics...its working very much like I want it to, or at least thats how the last few test games went.

Lachlan · May 3, 2007

I play without Tech Trading, me

darkedone02 · May 3, 2007

Tech Trading makes my enemies reached renaissance after I finished reaching modern age. Without Tech Trading, they won't reach renaissance till a little while

Lachlan · May 3, 2007

darkedone02 said:
Tech Trading makes my enemies reached renaissance after I finished reaching modern age. Without Tech Trading, they won't reach renaissance till a little while

You play in Noble difficulty ? Me = Noble

darkedone02 · May 3, 2007

Played the new version of the game and all I have to say is that it's quite buggy cause I encountered a lot of engine problems. I get the bright land bug, and the no city name display bug. I also encounter strange lag problems, and I've noticed that there are some TXT errors on the technology like that Trade Route tech. I recommend making a quick fix on getting rid of these TXT and those errors I've have told you about.

Lachlan said:
You play in Noble difficulty ? Me = Noble

No, I play in deity difficulty, I need a challenging computer opponent or I won't get much fun off this game.

GRM7584 · May 4, 2007

darkedone02 said:
Played the new version of the game and all I have to say is that it's quite buggy cause I encountered a lot of engine problems. I get the bright land bug, and the no city name display bug. I also encounter strange lag problems, and I've noticed that there are some TXT errors on the technology like that Trade Route tech. I recommend making a quick fix on getting rid of these TXT and those errors I've have told you about.

Apart from the TXT_KEYs, those all sound like cache issues. TXT_KEYS, strategies, and pedia entries are being gradually filled in. There's a lot of them.

Dancing Hoskuld · May 4, 2007

Ok, I am doing something fundamentally wrong. I can keep tech up with "reality" until about 1700 AD. Then everything goes bad and I am lucky to get Railraod before 2002 even though I get a tech every 4 turns or so, I am ahead of all the AI players, my tech is at 80% of tax, my 4 or 5 largest cities all have libraries, universities, observatories and labs and are producing inovation.

I am playing standard fractal with one less civ. With 18 I have no chance with 17 I can usually hold my own and even win

GRM7584 · May 4, 2007

Dancing Hoskuld said:
Ok, I am doing something fundamentally wrong. I can keep tech up with "reality" until about 1700 AD. Then everything goes bad and I am lucky to get Railraod before 2002 even though I get a tech every 4 turns or so, I am ahead of all the AI players, my tech is at 80% of tax, my 4 or 5 largest cities all have libraries, universities, observatories and labs and are producing inovation.

I am playing standard fractal with one less civ. With 18 I have no chance with 17 I can usually hold my own and even win

Hmm...there are a lot of techs in the industrial era right after 1700, and fewer turns. I will either increase the number of turns there or dramatically reduce the cost of industrial techs.

Anthropoid · May 10, 2007

Looks like an amazing creation GRM7584.

I'm having one small (and quite simpleminded) problem. I've DLed the zip file into my C:/ . . . Firaxis/Civ4/Mods folder, and I see the Nyomod folder there along with the other Warlords scenarios (Alexander, Chinese Unification, etc.). But when I run the Warlords app, I'm not having Nyomod as one of my "Load Scenario" options. Have I put it in the wrong place? Maybe I need to "clear my Civ4 Warlords cache in My Documents" as you mention in the thread up above?

You sound like an anthropologist or historian with your detailed knowledge of human cultural evolution!

Brave Sir Robin · May 10, 2007

GRM
have a complete ctd end of this turn (save attached)
ok i have made 3 xml changes ,but dont think they are related
changed game speed xml -epic (i am using this in my own mod so i know ? it is not the problem.I did readd tech trading to paper where it was and also changed the global defines to reflect tech trading as in previous versions.
this save is going to look for the mod- copy of nyomod DD.4 so you will need to made a copy to load it
it is at the end of the turn when you press enter it will ctd
you can see the curser turn and here the sound meaning end of turn
so i think it is one of two things at the beginning of my next turn
1 building of my first civil servant (in elephantine)
2 the first border pop coming out of revolt in the captured city coventry this is the first time this has happened in the game

Thanks for your help

Puer · May 11, 2007

aesop123 said:
looks like the latest version of speed mod is incompatible and causes the screen to go blank and the error screen comes out.

works fine on my computer Nyomod v.004 + speed mod (updated 04/29/2007). No errors or blank screen.

GRM7584 · May 14, 2007

I should have the next version out relatively soon (matter of days). I'm adding buildings (again, mostly "Renaissance") and altering timeline a little to account for additional turns I've placed in the Industrial Era.

Anthropoid said:
Looks like an amazing creation GRM7584.

I'm having one small (and quite simpleminded) problem. I've DLed the zip file into my C:/ . . . Firaxis/Civ4/Mods folder, and I see the Nyomod folder there along with the other Warlords scenarios (Alexander, Chinese Unification, etc.). But when I run the Warlords app, I'm not having Nyomod as one of my "Load Scenario" options. Have I put it in the wrong place? Maybe I need to "clear my Civ4 Warlords cache in My Documents" as you mention in the thread up above?

Ah, it isn't a scenario. On the front menu, use the "Advanced" option then go to "Load Mod", and you will find it (along with all those warlords scenarios, which are also accessible this way).

GRM7584 · May 14, 2007

Brave Sir Robin said:
GRM
have a complete ctd end of this turn (save attached)

I get a runtime error when I try to load that, which might be due to your changes or my new ones. However, since I have seen civil servants built and revolting cities recovering, I don't think it is either one of those, specifically. It could be any number of factors, and I have had mystery CTDs that I couldn't track down but which were reproducible like yours is. If and when I get more crashes, I'll use one of these posts to list possible reasons for them, and maybe the culprit(s) can be tracked down. I'll keep an eye on Civil Servants and revolting cities, though, just in case.

Also, I doubt it is your changes which are causing the CTD...they don't sound game-breaking at all.

joebg · May 14, 2007

GRM, I like your mod, because its light and runs great on my machine with over 12 Civs and because I like the concept of the mod. From when it was released up to now i am playing just your mod. But I have complete CDT after the early modern era( ver. 0.004). It took a while but I have figured out what is cousing it. It is something related with the Elizabeth or England. When I am playing with her the game crashes somewhere in the early modern. The same happens when the she is NPC. When I play without her in the game at all, the game runs fine to till the end. So I hope you can look at this and fix it if you can. And thank you for making this wonderful mod

LDiCesare · May 14, 2007

Hi, I've run this mod for one game, Monarch, as Mali, until 1300AD. Here is some feedback.
Overall, things get interesting a bit late, and I'd need to research the tech tree quite a bit to get the hang of it, but I think it'd be way too easy because the ai research and development seems very poor.
It's an interesting mod with some nice flavor, so please don't take the critics that follow bitterly, they are intended as constructive criticism.

Do Techs match up to historical discovery dates?
Definitely no. By 1300, only the most advanced civs had vasselage.

Do Religions match up to roughly historical founding dates?
Judge for yourself:
Hinduism 1500BC*, Judaism 500BC, Buddhism 370AD*, Confucianism 410AD, Taoism 790AD, Islam 850AD, Christianism 870AD!! (* = founded by me)

Are Wonders built at historically appropriate times?
I don't think so:Stonehenge 980BC, Pyramids 940BC, Hanging Gardens 290AD, Oracle 380AD, Parthenon 490AD, Great Wall 560AD...

Does the AI use a wide variety of civics?
Sorry, I didn't check.

Do all AIs seem to avoid certain techs?
Don't know. They seemed to have about the same base techs and then a few specific, but I glanced only quickly in the World Builder.

Do you personally find any particular building or unit imbalanced, or too good to pass up?
Stonerhenge looks like a must-have.

How intense is the effect of starting terrain on civs? Are some bonuses, improvements, or terrain combos just too effective to allow?
The +2 health and happiness trait would have made the game way easier; starting with 2 health in home city.

Are traits relative balanced?
Don't know but see above.

A few more specific remarks of my own:
I started alone on an island/small continent and had nothing to do for 2000 years. Boring start. Much worse than with vanilla game in the same conditions.

I didn't build any kind of military (almost) because I was isolated, and played around that. Even that way, pacifism was not sustainable (at one unit per city). I would have had to station units outside the cities to keep them happy, which sounds dumb, and generally makes them harder for me to find because I like to have them garrisonned in cities wher I know where my big lumps are (in this case at most 2 units).

Barbarian war galleys effectively ment I would never build fishing boats. A bit sad really. Better to get such barbarians appear with pirates later when there can be counters imo, but it may have been because I researched around astrology and avoided to obsolete the mighty Stonehenge.

I first met my neighbors around 600AD through cultural growth over an ocean channel. I found out I was ahead of 2 of the three civs there in score, which shouldn't happen given I didn't build courts before I realised how crappy my research was, didn't pay much attention to specialists, didn't realise that building a farm would be way better than cottages in some places, and generally fooled around without knowing what I was doing. Apparently, the ai knows even less and therefore should be unable to compete on Monarch if I had at least a clue of what to do, whereas I struggle in vanilla. I suppose that is to be expected, but I believe the ai probably doesn't pick the good techs or build wonders when it should, or, whatever. Tech trading would have helped them in this case I suppose, though it can also help the player?

Last (and least), the mod cannot be played if not in English. If you try to run it in French, many menus are just empty, and you see weird stuff like the traits for Nappy being 3 times philosophical.

Brave Sir Robin · May 14, 2007

joebg said:
GRM, I like your mod, because its light and runs great on my machine with over 12 Civs and because I like the concept of the mod. From when it was released up to now i am playing just your mod. But I have complete CDT after the early modern era( ver. 0.004). It took a while but I have figured out what is cousing it. It is something related with the Elizabeth or England. When I am playing with her the game crashes somewhere in the early modern. The same happens when the she is NPC. When I play without her in the game at all, the game runs fine to till the end. So I hope you can look at this and fix it if you can. And thank you for making this wonderful mod

grm
in the saved game i attached prev post with the ctd
I was Ramsses but england was in the game (churchill)
so maybe this can help point you the right way
also i have started a new game as Liz :sad:

so we should soon have some more evidence whether england is the cause

Anthropoid · May 16, 2007

GRM7584 said:
I should have the next version out relatively soon (matter of days). I'm adding buildings (again, mostly "Renaissance") and altering timeline a little to account for additional turns I've placed in the Industrial Era.

Ah, it isn't a scenario. On the front menu, use the "Advanced" option then go to "Load Mod", and you will find it (along with all those warlords scenarios, which are also accessible this way).

Okay, I _seem_ to have it running. I used the Advanced--Load a Mod--Single Player--Custom Game path, and generated a random game as Tokugawa. When I close back to the main menu, I have "Unload Mod" as one of my choices.

But nothing looks any different? Forests are still called Forests not temperate forest, all the tiles produce the expected amounts, the Tech tree looks identical, the unit civopedia.

Is there something simple and distinct I could look for in the civopedia or something that would confirm that the mod is actually running?

Brave Sir Robin · May 16, 2007

GRM
i think i have found the source of the CTD's some of us have seen
the english were the common source i thought .
i was playing a new game as england (liz) and sure enough about 1220 CTD :mad:

I think it has something to do with the redcoat being changed to a fuselier replacement instead of a rifleman replacement . so i changed it back to a rifleman replacement as it org was and neither game now crashes

hope this helps

[WARLORDS] Nyomod

King

he bravely ran away

King

Great Builder of Civs !

The Suggestor

Great Builder of Civs !

The Suggestor

King

Deity

King

Grognard fantome

he bravely ran away

Warlord

King

King

Chieftain

Deity

he bravely ran away

Grognard fantome

he bravely ran away

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