Weak (?) pantheons

[Funak]

Possible? Yes. Problematic? Yes, at least the latter one. The TR movement one isn't so bad, but the other one (the # of TR from a city) would most likely need AI support, which I'd like to avoid).

Either one of those would work, I just gave two different ones because I didn't know which ones would be easier.

How critical is it? I'm trying to be lean here - no other functions we can use from the beliefs.xml and/or the belief extensions added by the CP?

Critical? Not at all. It was a fun idea and I thought it would make sense for the god of commerce.
Just feel free to put your foot down if you don't want to do it, I'll figure something less interesting out instead.

 

[Gazebo]

Either one of those would work, I just gave two different ones because I didn't know which ones would be easier.


Critical? Not at all. It was a fun idea and I thought it would make sense for the god of commerce.
Just feel free to put your foot down if you don't want to do it, I'll figure something less interesting out instead.

Let's try to stick with functions that already exist, solely for the sake of minimizing memory headroom.

G

 

[Funak]

Ok ok. Commerce, bonus from markets? Bonus from caravansaries? Caravansaries comes kinda late and ottomans get them for free (but then again that didn't stop Egypt and Stone-circles)

 

[phantomaxl1207]

Religious Settlements*
30% faster border growth, and gain 18 Faith every time a city expands its borders. Bonus scales with Era.

Shouldn't this scale with Game Speed like Goddess of Love?

 

[Gidoza]

Religious Settlements*
30% faster border growth, and gain 18 Faith every time a city expands its borders. Bonus scales with Era.

Shouldn't this scale with Game Speed like Goddess of Love?

Maybe yes, maybe no - right now, we're still trying to figure out a starting value, and I'm fairly sure I did not put in the correct one.

To answer the question, though, think of this another way.

Imagine any other Pantheon that uses some tile improvement - say Plantations, and we average 2 Plantations to a city, so that would be 4 Faith per turn. And that never increases throughout the game. So the question is - why should any other Pantheon have increasing Faith, then, unless it is part of the design of that Pantheon to have strength later on? And if so, how do we calculate it? Ancestor Worship is easy to calculate. I have absolutely no clue how to do the mathematics for Religious Settlements, though I think PurpleMentat was on to something (I need to find his post on it in here). The problem is that tile expansion durations are so variable that it's hard to determine some kind of average to base a number on, and then to determine whether we should add Era bonuses on top of that number. :/ However, given that this Pantheon has no other external resource bonuses (tile expansion is useful, but eventually benefits nothing), I think you may have a point in letting the yield increase with Era.

 

[Funak]

Maybe yes, maybe no - right now, we're still trying to figure out a starting value, and I'm fairly sure I did not put in the correct one.

To answer the question, though, think of this another way.

Imagine any other Pantheon that uses some tile improvement - say Plantations, and we average 2 Plantations to a city, so that would be 4 Faith per turn. And that never increases throughout the game. So the question is - why should any other Pantheon have increasing Faith, then, unless it is part of the design of that Pantheon to have strength later on? And if so, how do we calculate it? Ancestor Worship is easy to calculate. I have absolutely no clue how to do the mathematics for Religious Settlements, though I think PurpleMentat was on to something (I need to find his post on it in here). The problem is that tile expansion durations are so variable that it's hard to determine some kind of average to base a number on, and then to determine whether we should add Era bonuses on top of that number. :/ However, given that this Pantheon has no other external resource bonuses (tile expansion is useful, but eventually benefits nothing), I think you may have a point in letting the yield increase with Era.

I have no idea what you're talking about, of course something that gives a flat value should scale with gamespeed. borderexpansion is slower in epic and marathon and prophets cost more faith so naturally the given borderexpands should give more faith.

 

[Gidoza]

I have no idea what you're talking about, of course something that gives a flat value should scale with gamespeed. borderexpansion is slower in epic and marathon and prophets cost more faith so naturally the given borderexpands should give more faith.

Brain fart - for some reason I read Era instead of Game Speed. Ignore my last post. I will just edit my previous Pantheon list and put it in. Thanks for catching it, phantomax.

 

[Gazebo]

So here's the current list. I made a few smaller adjustments based on my own testing, and left out the change to goddess of festivals (As the function isn't designed to modify based on era like that)

Spoiler :

-- PANTHEONS

-- Goddess of the Hunt
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+2 [ICON_PEACE] Faith and +1 [ICON_FOOD] Food from Camps'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_GODDESS_HUNT' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- Fertility Rites
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+2 [ICON_FOOD] Food and +2 [ICON_PEACE] Faith from Shrines, and 15% faster [ICON_FOOD] Growth Rate'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_FERTILITY_RITES' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- God of Craftsmen
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+1 [ICON_PEACE] Faith for every +10 [ICON_GOLD] Gold per turn, and +2 [ICON_PRODUCTION] Production and [ICON_PEACE] Faith in Cities with a Specialist'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_GOD_CRAFTSMEN' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- God of the Sea
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+2 [ICON_PEACE] Faith from Fishing Boats and Atolls. +2 [ICON_FOOD] Food in coastal Cities'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_GOD_SEA' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- God of the Open Sky
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+1 [ICON_PEACE] Culture for every 2 featureless Plains tiles near a City, +1 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture from Pastures'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_OPEN_SKY' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- Messenger of the Gods
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+3 [ICON_PEACE] Faith and +2 [ICON_RESEARCH] Science in Cities with a [ICON_CONNECTED] City Connection'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_MESSENGER_GODS' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = 'God of Commerce'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_MESSENGER_GODS_SHORT' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- One With Nature
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+1 [ICON_PEACE] Faith and [ICON_CULTURE] Culture for every 2 Mountains within 3 tiles of a City, and Natural Wonders gain +3 [ICON_PEACE] Faith and +2 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_ONE_WITH_NATURE' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = 'Cult of Nature'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_ONE_WITH_NATURE_SHORT' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- Liturgy (Now Goddess of Wisdom)
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+1 [ICON_PEACE] Faith for every 10 [ICON_RESEARCH] Science per turn. +1 [ICON_RESEARCH] Science and +1 [ICON_PEACE] Faith in every City'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_FORMAL_LITURGY' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = 'Goddess of Wisdom'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_FORMAL_LITURGY_SHORT' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- Stone Circles
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+3 [ICON_PEACE] Faith from Quarries, and +2 [ICON_PRODUCTION] Production from Stone Works'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_STONE_CIRCLES' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- God of War
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+2 [ICON_RESEARCH] Science from Barracks, and gain [ICON_PEACE] Faith if you win a battle'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_GOD_WAR' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- Sacred Waters
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = 'Purifying Waters'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_SACRED_WATERS_SHORT' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+2 [ICON_PEACE] Faith from Oases, Lakes, and Marshes. +1 [ICON_HAPPINESS_1] Happiness from Cities on rivers'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_SACRED_WATERS' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- Goddess of Love
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = 'Gain 12 [ICON_PEACE] Faith and 5 [ICON_GOLDEN_AGE] Golden Age Points every time a [ICON_CITIZEN] Citizen is born. Bonus scales with Era and Gamespeed'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_GODDESS_LOVE' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- Religious Settlements
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+20% faster border growth, and gain 25 [ICON_PEACE] Faith every time a city expands its borders. Bonus scales with Era and Gamespeed'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_RELIGIOUS_SETTLEMENTS' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- God of Festivals
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+3 [ICON_PEACE] Faith and +2 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture for every unique Luxury Resource you control'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_GOD_FESTIVALS' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- Oral Tradition
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+2 [ICON_PEACE] Faith from Plantations, and +2 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture from Markets'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_ORAL_TRADITION' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- Ancestor Worship
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+1 [ICON_PEACE] Faith for every 3 [ICON_CITIZEN] Citizens in a city, and +3 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture in [ICON_CAPITAL] Capital'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_ANCESTOR_WORSHIP' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- Desert Folklore

UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+2 [ICON_PEACE] Faith, +1 [ICON_FOOD] Food and +1 [ICON_GOLD] Gold from Desert tiles with improved resources'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_DESERT_FOLKLORE' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- Sacred Path
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+1 [ICON_PEACE] Faith and +1 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture for every 3 Jungle or 3 Forest tiles within 3 tiles of a City. +2 [ICON_PEACE] Faith from Herbalists'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_SACRED_PATH' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- Goddess of Protection
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+40% increase in city [ICON_RANGE_STRENGTH] Ranged Combat Strength. +3 [ICON_PEACE] Faith and +1 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture from Walls'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_GODDESS_STRATEGY' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- Faith Healers
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+15 HP healed per turn in friendly territory. +2 [ICON_PEACE] Faith and +1 Gold from Wells, +3 [ICON_PEACE] Faith and +1 [ICON_CULTUR] Culture from Watermills.'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_FAITH_HEALERS' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- Monuments to the Gods
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+4 [ICON_PEACE] Faith and +1 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture from World Wonders. +15% [ICON_PRODUCTION] Production of Pre-Renaissance Wonders'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_MONUMENT_GODS' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- Dance of the Aurora
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+2 [ICON_PEACE] Faith, +1 [ICON_PRODUCTION] Production and +1 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture from Tundra tiles with improved resources'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_DANCE_AURORA' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- Tears of the Gods (Now Polytheism)
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+3 [ICON_PEACE] Faith and +1 [ICON_HAPPINESS_1] Happiness in [ICON_CAPITAL] Capital, and +1 [ICON_HAPPINESS_1] Happiness for every known Civilization with a Pantheon'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_TEARS_OF_GODS' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = 'Polytheism'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_TEARS_OF_GODS_SHORT' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- Earth Mother
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+2 [ICON_PEACE] Faith from Mines on improved resources, and +2 [ICON_PRODUCTION] Production from Monuments'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_EARTH_MOTHER' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- God-King
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+1 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture, [ICON_PEACE] Faith, [ICON_GOLD] Gold, and [ICON_RESEARCH] Science for every 6 Followers'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_GOD_KING' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

-- Sun God
UPDATE Language_en_US
SET Text = '+2 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture from Granaries and +3 [ICON_PEACE] Faith from Farms on improved resources'
WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BELIEF_SUN_GOD' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_RELIGION' AND Value= 1 );

Sorry for XML gibberish - just ignore it.

G

 

[PurpleMentat]

Looks good. God of the Open Sky description is a bit messed. Assume it's meant to be

SET Text = '+1 [ICON_PEACE] Faith for every 2 featureless Plains within 2 times of a City, +1 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture from Pastures'

I really like Faith on herbalist for Sacred Path. If balancing is needed, reducing the free Faith and/or increasing Herbalist Faith seems like a good bet

 

[Gazebo]

Looks good. God of the Open Sky description is a bit messed. Assume it's meant to be

SET Text = '+1 [ICON_PEACE] Faith for every 2 featureless Plains within 2 times of a City, +1 [ICON_CULTURE] Culture from Pastures'

I really like Faith on herbalist for Sacred Path. If balancing is needed, reducing the free Faith and/or increasing Herbalist Faith seems like a good bet

Fixed. And yeah, it felt like a no-brainer to put faith on it, since it was the only ancient-era building not to have a yield like that.
G

 

[Der_Zorn_gottes]

A few questions popped up:

The faith for 10 science/gold per turn - these are empire wide, not city specific, right?

Emipre wide yields (for example faith per kill, or from city connections): Do you get them only if you found the pantheon, or also if the majority of your empire follows this pantheon?

And if so, what means majority? Most (>50%?) of your cities? Or population?

 

[Gazebo]

A few questions popped up:

The faith for 10 science/gold per turn - these are empire wide, not city specific, right?

Emipre wide yields (for example faith per kill, or from city connections): Do you get them only if you found the pantheon, or also if the majority of your empire follows this pantheon?

And if so, what means majority? Most (>50%?) of your cities? Or population?

1.) Yes.

2.) Majority has to follow

3.) Majority = number of cities with that as majority versus number of cities without it. +50%.

G