What civ to pick for my first deity win?

[beetle]

I am not sure I would play a map where I rolled Venice without a coastal start. They have a coastal start bias after all, and the map generation algorithm is suppose to give them first dibs out of all the coastal spots. I don’t often reroll from the start, but a land-locked Venice is no fun, and should only happen with poor map choices.

If you have your harbor, is not forward settling psycho ICS deity AI less of a problem for Venice than most any other civ?

 

[Sclb]

I invite you to roll a normal unedited Venice map and play and see if it's an easy deity win. It just so happens that both Venice map on deity series are heavily modified. Your options are limited from the beginning due to how CS are spaced. The easiest VC is actually domination or diplo, SV is more difficult due to not able to control growth in puppets. For CV you're forced to build everything in capital so pretty much OCC game, and diplo is always easy.

 

[beetle]

I invite you to roll a normal unedited Venice map and play and see if it's an easy deity win.

Yes, I have done that. I was on a Venice kick for a while, trying to figure out the appeal. Maybe my experience was not typical, but once I figure out how to play, I found Freedom Diplo or SV to boring and easy.

It just so happens that both Venice map on deity series are heavily modified.

Sure. But I thought was because Venice is boring and easy?

Your options are limited from the beginning due to how CS are spaced.

Yes, in the odd map, maybe 1 in 5 I would guess, you do not have have three CS within cargo ship ranges. Those games are terrible.

The easiest VC is actually domination or diplo

I never could make Deity Venice work for domination, and I did try a few times.

SV is more difficult due to not able to control growth in puppets.

I do not see why that matters. One just buys 4 or 5 parts in the cap, while building one or two.

For CV you're forced to build everything in capital so pretty much OCC game.

CV for Venice seems so impossible to me, I never even attempted it!

 

[curwen]

i did not recommand venise for 1st win but AZTEC .... as he was used to venise i just gave the 2 big problem with venise at deity (I love it but i do not win everytime... its really hard to prevent war for a long time even with venise).

I really wonder how you can say that that archer are sufficient to turtle at deity .... except if you get a great strategic location (happens 1/10 roughly). Personaly with a warlike neighbour (hun, greek ) they generaly overrun my archers if i do not have 2 defensive units (and i lose them sometimes except for the aztec ones (they are really great in jungle and their self heal is awesome)). I always play on continent map so it can be different on other maps (computer is really bad with naval units)

And yes venice can be an easy win at deity (just get freedom and buy the science victory) IF you can stay at peace most/all of the game ( AND you do not have a runway science (generaly by puting him in an endless war IF he is not alone on his continent)) the general case is challenging it depends a lot of what are the other civs and where they are (warlike next to you wo any other target is bad, science civ alone on his continent is bad warlike naval power (turk) wo problem near him is bad... all of the above at the same time i lose when i play venice at deity i am the nicest guy in town (i never declare war i always have trade route with everyone i never stole a worker to a CS i never renegue on an agreement i never enter a religious war i pupet CS which are on islands to have no disputed border except with venice (and I never protect CS even when i get them allied to me ... I even once pupeted a CS only to prevent him to be taken)... and yes the easiest victory CAN be the diplomatic one if you do not have to many competitors for CS AND you do not have a runaway getting the science victory 1st (depends a lot of how many CS remains of how many civs have been annihilated etc...)

 

[Sclb]

Diplo is by far easier than science, you should get it every time before an AI can launch if you can survive into late game. As to what the OP needs, he needs an AI that can win WITHOUT conditions and there are the obvious choices such as Poland, Aztecs, Babylon, Korea etc. I'm not sure why people even recommend Venice where clearly there are conditions for ease of winning. Also the OP only mentioned Venice because of the stupid easy April fools game where anyone can win that it just becomes boring, that doesn't mean that OP knows how to play Venice on a normal map. In fact that map was so insane that wonder spamming was probably the correct play.

 

[zxcvbob]

That stupid April Fools game was eye-opening, because even tho' I won without any really difficulty the AI's put up a good fight. It's amazing how may units they muster, and how fast they can science.

 

[claudiupb]

I think Venice seems easier because it is really just one city to micromanage and you could do it very good. Whenever I upped the difficulty in any civ game I started with an OCC game to get the feel of it.

Venice has an insane amount of gold if you manage to keep your TR and a really good UU that can even help you conquer some cities. You can get a decent SV wit them (it will be a lot later and sub optimal because you will have less GS than usual), and even a domination if most capitals are coastal.

 

[adsin15]

Pick Shoshone on a great plains map.

Starting every city with +8 additional workable tiles with +15% combat strength in your own territory is awesome.

Pathfinders will grant you a free pantheon if you find ruins after turn 20 I believe (easy to do on big map)

Once you get Commanches...control the map with impunity...massacre enemies.

 

[zxcvbob]

I've tried a few practice runs (just a hundred turns or so) at Immortal using Shoshone and Aztecs, trying different strategies. How well I do seems to depend mostly on how many hills, horses, and mining resources I get. (jungle start with no hills at all and only calendar luxes means reroll, no matter how much food and science it will deliver someday) But after 120 turns I'm usually not as far along as I think I should be, so I'm still not doing it right.

And I had one Shoshone expo that was all grassland tiles; no production at all There were hills and horses and cattle tiles in the 3 ring, but none of those tiles were grabbed when I founded the city.

Aztec tradition+honor looks promising; that's the one I'm playing now, but I have no iron and jaguars are getting kind of weak. I can either conquer a CS that has iron and furs and Cerro Potosi, or wait until I research gunpowder and ally them long enough to upgrade everybody to muskets. (I don't want to upgrade to swords now and then lose the iron because Alex steals my CS ally.)

I think maybe I'm just not bold enough. I've been watching a silent Let's Play video with the Aztecs. Taking down Shaka while also defending against with the Celts, Maya, and an aggressive CS was impressive.

 

[Acken]

Pick babylon or poland.

 

[Plumfairy]

I really really dig the Aztecs, but Acken is right; if you really want to make your first Deity win as easy as possible, pick one of the God tier civs. (e.g. Babylon or Poland)

And I had one Shoshone expo that was all grassland tiles; no production at all There were hills and horses and cattle tiles in the 3 ring, but none of those tiles were grabbed when I founded the city.

The Shoshone's initial land grab follows the same rules as the usual city governor auto-picks. That is to say, luxury & strategic resources are given top billing, then food tiles, while production-only tiles are lowest priority. It's kind of an irritating algorithm, IMO; I often end up buying a hill or two for almost all my cities.

Aztec tradition+honor looks promising; that's the one I'm playing now, but I have no iron and jaguars are getting kind of weak. I can either conquer a CS that has iron and furs and Cerro Potosi, or wait until I research gunpowder and ally them long enough to upgrade everybody to muskets.

A couple things:

First, I find that the Aztecs, despite first impressions, aren't particularly suited to Honor. I mean, you can use any of the "standard" Honor strats, but that doesn't really play to the Aztecs' strength. The Aztecs' true strength isn't the Jaguar Warrior or their +culture per kill, but rather their Floating Gardens. Those things are *amazing*. To maximize their awesomeness, focus on Tradition for the growth bonus, followed by Rationalism. The Aztecs are, above all, a science civ thanks to their amazing growth (if you play your cards right) combined with their jungle start bias. I do usually make sure to build 2-4 jaguars, though, and then I upgrade them through the entire tech tree so my front line meat shields all have the jaguars' starting promotions.

Second, regarding the iron situation in your current game, consider upgrading the jaguars as soon as they can be upgraded to Longswordsmen. Once they're Longswordsman, it doesn't matter so much if you lose the iron. True, if you do happen to lose iron, then they'll fight with the "missing resources" penalty. But you can usually play around that. (i.e. either make sure you remain at peace until Musketmen upgrades are available, or rely on your Crossbowmen for defence) And whenever you *do* research Gunpowder, then all those Longswordsmen can be upgraded whether or not you've lost access to iron.

 

[zxcvbob]

Aztec tradition+honor looks promising; that's the one I'm playing now, but I have no iron and jaguars are getting kind of weak. I can either conquer a CS that has iron and furs and Cerro Potosi, or wait until I research gunpowder and ally them long enough to upgrade everybody to muskets.

A couple things:
First, I find that the Aztecs, despite first impressions, aren't particularly suited to Honor. I mean, you can use any of the "standard" Honor strats, but that doesn't really play to the Aztecs' strength. The Aztecs' true strength isn't the Jaguar Warrior or their +culture per kill, but rather their Floating Gardens. Those things are *amazing*. To maximize their awesomeness, focus on Tradition for the growth bonus, followed by Rationalism. The Aztecs are, above all, a science civ thanks to their amazing growth (if you play your cards right) combined with their jungle start bias. I do usually make sure to build 2-4 jaguars, though, and then I upgrade them through the entire tech tree so my front line meat shields all have the jaguars' starting promotions.

Second, regarding the iron situation in your current game, consider upgrading the jaguars as soon as they can be upgraded to Longswordsmen. Once they're Longswordsman, it doesn't matter so much if you lose the iron. True, if you do happen to lose iron, then they'll fight with the "missing resources" penalty. But you can usually play around that. (i.e. either make sure you remain at peace until Musketmen upgrades are available, or rely on your Crossbowmen for defence) And whenever you *do* research Gunpowder, then all those Longswordsmen can be upgraded whether or not you've lost access to iron.

I'm replaying the same map with Liberty, Honor(left side only), Patronage(consulates) and Rationalism. Had to scrap the Rationalism plan in the midgame and go full Commerce because of all that amazing growth from the floating gardens. I could not keep my people happy because the cities kept growing without bounds, even on production focus.

I like the idea of upgrading to Longswords so I can keep upgrading even without iron. I ended up capturing a Danish city right next to that CS with the iron and Cerro Potosi, and I stole them with a general. I'm still allies with the CS, after liberating them from Denmark, but now I have the Cerro Potosi wonder (and it's workable.)

 

[gobbledydook]

Poland is #1 hands down.
Korea and Babylon are the next 2 best,
then you might look at Maya, or Shoshone.

The free social policies of Poland are broken, not just 'nice'. You could do Tradition/Liberty mix aka tommynt style, or get Patronage/Commerce. Just so flexible.
Trad/Lib mix lets you expand much faster and keep up the growth. Patronage lets you ally the city states easily and they provide so much bonuses. Or commerce, earn gold -> buy things that are nice. Things you wouldn't be able to do so early in any other civ.


The social policies are the only reason why Poland is #1.


Korea is amazing, just rush science and win. Because science boost on Library, University, Public School, Oxford, Research Labs, Observatory...You are automatically 3 techs ahead. Then you have the specialists +2 science, that is a huge amount.

Babylon: free academy upon Writing, when your science output is like 16 at turn 50 and now you have 50% more, you get to your key early techs like Philosophy so much faster and the AI never catch up.

Maya: Free great people! We all know how great those are. You basically get one free wonder, and one free academy; the other great people don't matter as much. The pyramids are great too as a shrine replacement. The science they give is really nice.

Shoshone: First you don't have to wait for your cities to get the tiles you want. Or buy those tiles. You can put down a city and instantly start working that lux 3 tiles away. Then there are those pathfinders. You get Tradition opened so much faster, you get that extra pop, you get that fast pantheon at turn 20. It really helps you catch up to the AI.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Poland is #1 hands down.
Korea and Babylon are the next 2 best,
then you might look at Maya, or Shoshone.

This man summed it up perfectly. If you want a braindead victory, pick one of those five. Maya might actually be the most challenging, since the GP you get from Long Count aren't free but increase your counter. Still the early science is amazing. All of these Civs can reliably give you a Spaceship win at Deity even with terrible terrain.

 

[zxcvbob]

How about Babylon for a domination victory?

I'm having fun playing at Immortal, I should probably stay there for a while and then try Deity again.

 

[Babinski]

Actually, I won one with Venice, but that doesn't count because it was that April 1 deity challenge game with a very contrived start (started with Petra and lots of salt and fish and sheep, and 3 or 4 MoV's)

I'm thinking Shaka on a Mesopotamia map at epic speed with raging barbarians. Go for a domination victory; if I have a close neighbor start out with honor (right side first). If nobody is near me start with liberty, take the left side to the free settler then switch to honor.

In either case go full honor and commerce; no need for rationalism. If I have coal take order for my ideology, if not take autocracy or freedom.

Or would somebody like Poland or Babylon be better?

If you plan on going for an easy domination victory, u might want to check this Youtube clip out. He explains rather well so you should be able to duplicate a similar game . Huns, instead of Zulus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1mFwdah2d4

 

[Plumfairy]

How about Babylon for a domination victory?

I'm having fun playing at Immortal, I should probably stay there for a while and then try Deity again.

Because science is king, Babylon is a great choice for Domination. I would go full Tradition, since +growth in your capital is really handy for Babylon. (you want that extra pop so you can work all the academies you'll be founding) Besides, Tradition's extra gold & happiness in the capital is handy for the warmonger on the go, as is all the free buildings Tradition gets. (Free buildings = hammers that can be spent on military-type stuff instead.)

 

[poxpower]

Civ doesn't matter, just go for diplomatic win. (standard size map of 8AI and 16citystates)

You can easily win by the first world leader vote on turn 270ish ( standard ). That's 20-40 turns faster than what I can do with science wins even with Babylon.

1- 4 city tradition
2- rush national college
3- rush banking, attempt forbidden palace. You can get it probably 80% of the time. Just make sure you have unlocked patronage by the time you finish banking.
4- just build gold buildings and buy city-states as fast as you can so the AIs aren't at war with them when they fight each other
5- Defend. Build triplanes and anti-aircraft guns when you can to defend against AI bombers. When globalization is near, put all your spies as diplomats. Unless something went terribly wrong like shaka conquering 4 other AIs or Ghenghis killing 5-6 city-states, that should be enough votes.

Just finish tradition, then unlock patronage and then finish rationalism. Research agreements, great scientists and the extra science are all necessary to make sure you get globalization by the time the world leader vote comes.

Once you control the congress, get them to pass world religion, that's +2 vote and get them to pass world ideology, that's +2 again.

 

[beetle]

just build gold buildings and buy city-states as fast as you can so the AIs aren't at war with them when they fight each other

Diplo is my fallback, it is much easier if you start on it early. The above is all good advice, the only real trick is not letting any AI runaway with any single CS. I tend to start bribing late, but that just makes things more expensive.

When you bribe, do so to win influence by a large margin. The AIs will only every drop 500 gold at a time. One or two will have more money than you, so when you bribe, do not be stingy. You need to avoid a bidding war!

If a few CS are eliminated, it hardly matters. The vote needed changes on who is eligible to vote. Prior to Globalization, use spies in CS to help with any CS that are in play.

Defend. Build triplanes and anti-aircraft guns when you can to defend against AI bombers.

After Globalization, you want to be at peace, since you need peace to place diplomats. Build an Atom Bomb if you can, since that will ensure civil behavior from the AI.

Once you control the congress, get them to pass world religion, that's +2 vote and get them to pass world ideology, that's +2 again.

All the AIs will hate you for those. But you may need them. But you also cannot afford to loose diplomats. So have that Atom Bomb on line!

 

[poxpower]

I never build atom bombs haha.
The AI spams them nonstop, I never imagined they cared.
I guess that makes it even easier.