What do you think of my Civ 7 Civ and Leader Picks?

[LiamX]

Hi guys. I know Civ 6 isn't done yet but a lot of the leader choices in Civ 6 is a mix of meh. We have too many bad picks like Gorgo and Seondeok but then we have a lot of good ones as well. Now take note, we are talking about the leader choices, not the game in general.

So, just to give you an overview, my picks are the leaders who has done the most for their civ or among the ranks of the most popular.

So, here are my civ and leader picks for civ 7 Vanilla.

New World
1. America: Thomas Jefferson
2. Aztec: Ahuitzotl
3. Maya: Pacal the Great
4. Brazil: Dom Pedro I
5. Inca: Manco Capac

Europe
6. Russia: Ivan the Terrible
7. Great Britain: Victoria
8. France: Henry IV
9. Gemany: Frederick the Great
10. Spain: Philip II

Classical Civs
11. Rome: Julius Caesar
12. Greece: Alexander the Great
13. Egypt: Thutmose III

East Asia
14. China: Tang Taizong
15. Japan: Ashikaga Yoshimitsu
16. Vietnam: Trung Trac
17. Majapahit: Hayam Wuruk
18. India: Akbar the Great

Middle East
19. Sumeria: Gilgamesh
20. Persia: Cyrus
21. Arabia: Harun-Al Rashid

Africa
22. Ashanti - Osei Tutu I
23. Benin: Queen Idia
24: Ethiopia: Haile Selassie I

 

[blackbutterfly]

Civ 7? Have I missed something?

 

[Katakanja]

Civ 7? Have I missed something?

I think the OP has missed that this would be better off in the ideas & suggestions subforum...

 

[LiamX]

Well I'm new. How do I transfer this thread?

 

[comatosedragon]

"Ivan the terrible" did the most for his country or is the most popular? It would be cool to have 'bad' leaders, but I just don't see Firaxis allowing it.

I love all your New World Picks!

 

[Duckfromstatefarm]

Nice leader selection, but chances are Civ 7 is most likely going to have Ghandi in the game. It's not a civ game without Ghandi nuking somebody.

 

[MaryKB]

Some of these leaders are very interesting, I especially like Thomas Jefferson! I do feel however that more than 2 out of 24 should be female. Both the examples given of "bad" leader choices are women, and then the suggestions are almost all men.

A couple leaders I feel could be interesting would be Richard the Lionheart for England and Cardinal Richelieu for France. Anne of Austria could also be a good choice for France. I'd like to see Messalina as an option for Rome some day!

 

[bite]

Moderator Action: thread moved

 

[liv]

Not enough female leaders
and lack of Scandinavians

 

[LiamX]

"Ivan the terrible" did the most for his country or is the most popular? It would be cool to have 'bad' leaders, but I just don't see Firaxis allowing it.

I love all your New World Picks!

I'm glad you like my New World picks though I would defend Ivan the Terrible. Yeah sure, he may have committed many atrocities but he did many great things to Russia as well. And since Peter and Catherine has already been excessively picked, it's time for the other famous Russian leader to shine. Besides, Civ has already picked many great leaders in the past who committed mass murders. Qin Shi Huang and Isabella of Castile to name a few.

Some of these leaders are very interesting, I especially like Thomas Jefferson! I do feel however that more than 2 out of 24 should be female. Both the examples given of "bad" leader choices are women, and then the suggestions are almost all men.

A couple leaders I feel could be interesting would be Richard the Lionheart for England and Cardinal Richelieu for France. Anne of Austria could also be a good choice for France. I'd like to see Messalina as an option for Rome some day!

Yes, Thomas Jefferson is a good choice. He's the last of the Mt Rushmore dudes who hasn't appeared in Civ yet. Also, technically, there are 3 female leaders in my selection. Victoria, Idia of Benin and Trung Trac. 3 is about the right number for Vanilla Civ. Civ 1 had 1, Civ 3 had.. hmm, how many was that..? Elizabeth, Joan of Arc, Cleopatra and Catherine.. 4. Yes, 4! Civ 4 had.. uhmm, 5 I guess? Not sure. Civ 5 had 3 and Civ 6, well, I lost count. A lot of the female leaders they picked in Civ 6 were very obscure especially when we talk about their contribution or popularity in their respective civs.

 

[Zaarin]

If Sumer returns as our base game Mesopotamians, there are many much better leader choices than Gilgamesh. Gudea or Ur-Nammu, for instance; Kubaba (Sumerian: Kuĝ-bau) gets you another female.

Other thoughts:

• Ditch Britain, bring back England; replace Victoria the Figurehead with Elizabeth I.
• Henry IV is a really interesting choice for France. (I mean that in a positive way.)
• I'm skeptical of seeing two Southeast Asian civs in the base game. You're also missing a Native North American civ. I'd replace Vietnam with a Native American civ.
• As others have said, this list is a little short on female rulers. I'd ditch Philip for Isabella, for starters. Lady Six Sky of the Maya would be another good choice. Nothing wrong with Thutmose III, but Hatshepsut would be another woman. Replacing Ivan the Terrible with Catherine the Great would be another woman and a better leader.
• Is having Dom Satan back really necessary? Personally Brazil should be a third expansion or late DLC civ, if it's absolutely necessary to have at all.
• I think we've all accepted that Persia will forever be Achaemenid in Firaxis' eyes, but I wouldn't mind seeing the better attested (and less poorly represented *glares at Firaxis*) Darius I return.
• Haile Selassie is a tired trope; I'd replace him with Zara Ya'qob.
• As long as we're retiring long-time Civ mascot Moctezuma, how about going a bold step further and replacing the Aztec with the Mixtec, led by Eight Deer Jaguar Claw (who also wins "coolest name ever")? (Like two Southeast Asian civs, though, I'd be shocked to ever see two Mesoamerican civs in the base game. Civ6 couldn't even be bothered to include one civ native to the New World in the base game, not including day 1 DLC.)
• I'd like to think Civ6 set a precedent and we'll never see Alex leading Greece again.
• I really like that you have Taizong leading China.
• Tommy's okay; personally I'd rather see John Adams.

Not enough female leaders
and lack of Scandinavians

Do we really need Scandinavia in the base game?

 

[MaryKB]

Yes, Thomas Jefferson is a good choice. He's the last of the Mt Rushmore dudes who hasn't appeared in Civ yet. Also, technically, there are 3 female leaders in my selection. Victoria, Idia of Benin and Trung Trac. 3 is about the right number for Vanilla Civ. Civ 1 had 1, Civ 3 had.. hmm, how many was that..? Elizabeth, Joan of Arc, Cleopatra and Catherine.. 4. Yes, 4! Civ 4 had.. uhmm, 5 I guess? Not sure. Civ 5 had 3 and Civ 6, well, I lost count. A lot of the female leaders they picked in Civ 6 were very obscure especially when we talk about their contribution or popularity in their respective civs.

Thomas Jefferson is probably my favorite president, so I'd definitely be interested in seeing him in the game. Did you ever see the "John Adams" series on HBO? Stephen Dillane was brilliant as Jefferson.

That makes me think of a radical idea though: what about Abigail Adams as leader for America? She wasn't a president, but she had a significant influence on 2 of the early presidents, and she wrote many political letters. She was an early abolitionist and a feminist, and her leader ability could be called "Remember the ladies", and she could have a focus that reflects equality and progressiveness.

Civilization 1 had 14 civilizations, 7 of which were either European or a European offshoot! I don't think we'll ever go back to such a heavily Euro-centric theme for the game. The trend starting in the Civilization 5 expansions is definitely one that more celebrates diversity and recognizes that history is not as simple as we think. There is the saying that "behind every great man there's a great woman" for a reason. Even though most of the recognized historical leaders were men, many actually had significant women in their lives (such as their wives, mothers, or even concubines) having considerable influence. Because of our patriarchal nature, the women rarely got the credit. In the Civilization 5 expansions, we definitely see that the developers are understanding this and are looking at history in a more nuanced manner.

I'm also not sure if we should just go with the most easily recognizable leaders. That could get boring! I like what they're currently doing, and selecting different leaders who offer something new. This series has also always had a great educational value, and exposing us to leaders we may not be commonly familiar with is a huge plus.

My recommendation would be to do research on notable women rulers (or influencers) for each civilization, and try to have about half the suggested leaders as women. Or even better, how about we go the Civilization 2 route and make both a male and female ruler for each nation?

 

[Phrozen]

Hi guys. I know Civ 6 isn't done yet but a lot of the leader choices in Civ 6 is a mix of meh. We have too many bad picks like Gorgo and Seondeok but then we have a lot of good ones as well. Now take note, we are talking about the leader choices, not the game in general.

So, just to give you an overview, my picks are the leaders who has done the most for their civ or among the ranks of the most popular.

So, here are my civ and leader picks for civ 7 Vanilla.

Europe
6. Russia: Ivan the Terrible
7. Great Britain: Victoria
8. France: Henry IV
9. Gemany: Frederick the Great
10. Spain: Philip II

Classical Civs
11. Rome: Julius Caesar
12. Greece: Alexander the Great
13. Egypt: Thutmose III

East Asia
14. China: Tang Taizong
15. Japan: Ashikaga Yoshimitsu
16. Vietnam: Trung Trac
17. Majapahit: Hayam Wuruk
18. India: Akbar the Great

Middle East
19. Sumeria: Gilgamesh
20. Persia: Cyrus
21. Arabia: Harun-Al Rashid

Africa
22. Ashanti - Osei Tutu I
23. Benin: Queen Idia
24: Ethiopia: Haile Selassie I

If I was the sole authority on the picks I would change your list just a bit. I think you had good civ choice for the most part.


America: Calvin Coolidge
Aztec: Same
Comanche: Buffalo Hump
Maya: Lady K'abel aka Lady Snake Lord
Inca: Huayna Capac
England: Edward I
France: Philip II
Germany: Otto the Great
Russia: Alexander II
Spain: Isabella
Sweden: Charles XII
Egypt: Djoser
Greece: Epaminondas
Rome: Augustus
China: Same
Japan: Okubo Toshimichi
India: Same
Majapahit: Same
Akkad: Sargon
Perisa: Khosrow I
Arabia: Same or Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan
Turks: Ataturk
Ethiopia: Menelik II
Mali: Mansa Musa

 

[Zaarin]

America: Calvin Coolidge

A fellow Silent Cal fan!

 

[Phrozen]

A fellow Silent Cal fan!

It was him or Cleveland and veto everything that comes across your desk is kind of hard to put in game terms.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

If I could do the base game with the same number of Civs.
I would give some Civs alternate leaders that can represent different time periods/playstyles.
Americas
America: Thomas Jefferson
Aztec: Montezuma I
Inca: Huyana Capac
Iroquois: Jigonhsasee

Europe:
England: Churchill/ Elizabeth I
France: Louis XIV
Germany: Bismarck
Spain: Isabella I
Russia: Lenin/ Catherine
Greece: Alexander the Great/ Pericles
Rome: Julius Caesar/ Hadrian

East Asia
China: Wu Zetian/ Kangxi
Japan: Tokugawa Ieyasu
India: Akbar/ Ashoka ( Likely would get Gandhi though)
Mongolia: Genghis Khan
Khmer: Suryavarman II

Middle East:
Persia: Cyrus
Arabia: Al-Mansur
Ottomans: Suleiman
Babylon: Hammurabi

Africa
Egypt: Hatshepsut
Ethiopia: Ezana
Mali: Mansa Musa
Zulu: Shaka

Edited:
Realistically if we only get about twenty Civs instead I could see
the Khmer getting pushed back along with either Ottomans or Arabia, Iroquois and one or two African Civs that's not Egypt.
Europe could do without Spain as well.

 

[Guandao]

Hi guys. I know Civ 6 isn't done yet but a lot of the leader choices in Civ 6 is a mix of meh. We have too many bad picks like Gorgo and Seondeok but then we have a lot of good ones as well. Now take note, we are talking about the leader choices, not the game in general.

So, just to give you an overview, my picks are the leaders who has done the most for their civ or among the ranks of the most popular.

So, here are my civ and leader picks for civ 7 Vanilla.

New World
1. America: Thomas Jefferson
2. Aztec: Ahuitzotl
3. Maya: Pacal the Great
4. Brazil: Dom Pedro I
5. Inca: Manco Capac

Europe
6. Russia: Ivan the Terrible
7. Great Britain: Victoria
8. France: Henry IV
9. Gemany: Frederick the Great
10. Spain: Philip II

Classical Civs
11. Rome: Julius Caesar
12. Greece: Alexander the Great
13. Egypt: Thutmose III

East Asia
14. China: Tang Taizong
15. Japan: Ashikaga Yoshimitsu
16. Vietnam: Trung Trac
17. Majapahit: Hayam Wuruk
18. India: Akbar the Great

Middle East
19. Sumeria: Gilgamesh
20. Persia: Cyrus
21. Arabia: Harun-Al Rashid

Africa
22. Ashanti - Osei Tutu I
23. Benin: Queen Idia
24: Ethiopia: Haile Selassie I

Some very brief comments on your Civ7 vanilla lineup:

New World: Brazil can sit the vanilla out. It made it to Civ6 vanilla because of the 2016 Olympics. I rather they used someone else besides Pacal for the Mayan leader. And why the most legendary leader for the Inca?
Europe: Victoria and Philip II again?
Classical Civs: I actually wouldn't mind Alexander becoming a Greek leader again. Hatshepsut should return for Egypt though.
East Asia: More like East Asia, South Asia and Southeast Asia, Maybe two Civs from SE Asia in the vanilla is a bit too much. Spread them between the DLCs/Expansions and Vanilla. And where's Mongolia?
Middle East: I rather have Babylon or Assyria if we need a Mesopotamian Civ. No more Herculean/Hulk speak Gilgamesh please. How about the Ottomans?
Africa: two new Civs from West Africa.....I like them both, but not both being added in the vanilla. Add one in the vanilla. Then another in an expansion. If we need more African representation, look at other regions (Central, East, Southern, North).

Civ6 vanilla had 19 Civs, I'm not sure if Civ7 vanilla will have 24 Civs.

 

[MantaRevan]

Hi guys. I know Civ 6 isn't done yet but a lot of the leader choices in Civ 6 is a mix of meh. We have too many bad picks like Gorgo and Seondeok

I'm with you on Gorgo but Soendeok was actually a pretty great queen once I got around to researching her. She's no Sejong, but she's certainly a worthy pick in her own right.

 

[MantaRevan]

My list might look something like

India: Jawaharl Nehru/ Harshavardhana
China: Taizong
Japan: Meiji
Vietnam: Trung Sisters
Greece: Pericles / Solon
Rome: Julius Ceaser
England: James II
Russia: Catherine the Great
Inca: Pachacuti
Egypt: Hatsheput
Mali: Mansa Musa
America: Thomas Jefferson / Abraham Lincoln
Germany: Konrad Adenauer
France: Louis XIV
Ottomans: Suleiman the Magnificent
Blackfoot: Crowfoot

 

[LiamX]

Hmm.. I don't think adding female leaders for the sake of adding female leaders is a good thing. It has a fanbase of haters all around the internet just because they replaced historical significance with representation. That website with Koreans trashing Civ because of Seondeok gave me the chills man.
Though, I do have female friends who play Civ and they don't even mind the representation in the game. We play because the game is fun and we love history. In fact, every single one of them ignored Gorgo, Seondeok and Wu Zetian (during Civ 5) because they were insignificant compared to the many more significant rulers of their nation.

If I was the sole authority on the picks I would change your list just a bit. I think you had good civ choice for the most part.


America: Calvin Coolidge
Aztec: Same
Comanche: Buffalo Hump
Maya: Lady K'abel aka Lady Snake Lord
Inca: Huayna Capac
England: Edward I
France: Philip II
Germany: Otto the Great
Russia: Alexander II
Spain: Isabella
Sweden: Charles XII
Egypt: Djoser
Greece: Epaminondas
Rome: Augustus
China: Same
Japan: Okubo Toshimichi
India: Same
Majapahit: Same
Akkad: Sargon
Perisa: Khosrow I
Arabia: Same or Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan
Turks: Ataturk
Ethiopia: Menelik II
Mali: Mansa Musa

Good choice. But I wouldn't replace Pacal from Maya. He's the only one from that civilization who's significant enough to be in Civ. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Also, Japan should get someone from the Samurai era all the time. Japan/post-Samurai is just not fun anymore.

Maybe two Civs from SE Asia in the vanilla is a bit too much.

Well, we still have the Khmer and Siam for the two different expansions. It would be nice to have both of them in 1 game since people always think they're the same (like Songhai and Mali) when in fact, they are very different.