What do you think of Persia as a civ?

[Athenaeum]

I think they were really harmed with the DLC, when all great people lost the ability to create golden ages except for great artists.

But even when all great people had that ability, I felt it was a waste to burn them on golden ages (especially when the golden length decreased with each successive use).

My friend used to be "good" with Persia. However, I felt his strategy relied too heavily on Chichen Itza and Taj Mahal.

The one noteworthy thing about them, however, was that artillery could move, load and fire all in the same turn during a golden age.

FilthyRobot (a Youtuber, if you know him) claimed that Persia is a "monster Liberty civ" because their golden age bonuses address 2 of the main weaknesses that Liberty civs face - gold and culture.

However, happiness tends to be a problem on Liberty too, and if you can't get high happiness you're not going to enter a golden age unless you burn Great Artists or build the Taj Mahal.

All in all I just feel that golden ages don't come about often enough - at least not for liberty civs or conquest civs - for Persia's bonuses to really make that much of a difference.

 

[consentient]

On all difficulty levels, Persia is one of the best empires in the game. It's clearly designed to be that way, in part to reflect the historical scope of their empire, IMO.

If you look at the best civs, they are all very important empires, with the exception of Poland and Korea, which are glitches/unbalanced design.

Babylon = first empire
Maya = made swift civilisational advancements until they exhausted their land base
China = nuff said
Mongols = biggest empire
Persia = huge, and hugely influential
Arabia = nuff said

My advice is to play a 3/4 Tradition-Aesthetics-Freedom game with Persia. Even without CI, you can have most of the game as a GA. Bro-ken.

 

[Dushku]

I like any civ that has a UB that provides happiness. Immortals are cool. And you don't have to live in infinite Golden Age in order to get some return from their UA.

 

[Bad Wolf]

It's possible to enter more-or-less permanent golden ages with Persia from the Industrial era on.

Combine that with one of the best unique units in the game (only downside is it comes really early, but it makes you basically unbeatable in the early game) and one of the best unique buildings (you're already going to want to build a bank, the extra 2 happiness is just gravy - really, really good gravy), and Persia is easily one of the top-tier civs.

 

[MrUnderhill]

Persia is still quite strong even with the Great People nerf. Guilds is only one tech away from Civil Service and eventually leads to Banking, which you'll want anyway for Satraps. Also, Great Artists run on their own GPP counters, so you don't have to worry about your Great Scientists or Engineers interfering with Artist production anymore.

 

[FaohKi]

If you built CI with any civ you gonna have persia's UA + your own UA. So, they're overrated IMHO.

 

[consentient]

If you built CI with any civ you gonna have persia's UA + your own UA. So, they're overrated IMHO.

Firstly, that's quite a big 'if', isn't it? Secondly, if you build CI with Persia you have really, really long GAs. Have you thought about how much that extra culture, production and gold is worth compared with most of the other civ's UAs? It's not even a fair comparison. Portugal? Meh. Babylon? A good start can't compete with how much the total amount of extra culture accelerates victory.

Some day I'll make a Persia Trad>Aesth>Freedom LP to showcase what they can do.

 

[HeliosDisciple]

Babylon = first empire

Wasn't Egypt the first?

Well, besides Sumeria, which isn't in this game.

 

[Kriogen]

During GA all persian units are like Unique Units.

 

[Athenaeum]

Here are my thoughts on why Persia's viability is limited.

Persia has military bonuses during Golden Age, but you can't exactly control when the Golden Age occurs, so you might get a golden age when you're not looking for war, or you might not get one at a time you are trying for war.

You have to have happiness in order to spawn golden ages without relying on Great Artists and the Taj Mahal. Happiness is hard to come by with domination and liberty civs.

 

[FaohKi]

Firstly, that's quite a big 'if', isn't it? Secondly, if you build CI with Persia you have really, really long GAs. Have you thought about how much that extra culture, production and gold is worth compared with most of the other civ's UAs? It's not even a fair comparison. Portugal? Meh. Babylon? A good start can't compete with how much the total amount of extra culture accelerates victory.

Some day I'll make a Persia Trad>Aesth>Freedom LP to showcase what they can do.

If you build CI as persia, IF is a lil bit big, no? E.g you can't replace Austria's UA even if you build every single wonders but any civ can get what persia gets with just one wonder. Like I said, it's my humble opinion, they're clearly overrated.

 

[consentient]

You are correct that if any civ builds CI they get something like Persia's UA + their own UA, but not exactly, and it does not logically follow that this means Persia are overrated, because...

- most civ's UAs are not anywhere near as good. You named Austria. That is a really suboptimal UA. I agree that Persia's UA is not going to make much difference when added to Poland's, that's like overkill, but..

- they won't get the extra movement during GA

and

- they won't get the UU or UB, both of which are decent

 

[budweiser]

If you look at the best civs, they are all very important empires, with the exception of Poland and Korea, which are glitches/unbalanced design.

I think the West tends to down play the historical significance of Poland. My friend, this is a map of Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth at its maximum extent, after the Truce of Deulino in 1619. That I just grabbed off wiki. Its not a bad chunk of realestate.

Spoiler :

 

[Dushku]

Happiness is hard to come by with domination and liberty civs.

That's the second time you've jumped right over the fact that Persia's UB provides happiness.

 

[GenuineRisk]

Persia has military bonuses during Golden Age, but you can't exactly control when the Golden Age occurs, so you might get a golden age when you're not looking for war, or you might not get one at a time you are trying for war.

While Golden Ages are not 100% in your control, they can be controlled to some extent like Culture. Buying/selling luxuries can help quite a bit with this, as well as city-state alliances. (+/- 120 GA points every 30 turns for 1 luxury bought/sold)

You have to remember that when you do get a Golden Age, they can be long enough for some serious domination, especially if you have some Great Artists saved up. The Persian UA is sort of a reusable version of Clausewitz. Without close attention to culture, you may trigger Clausewitz at a less than ideal time, but those 50 turns should win you the game, especially if you paid attention and prepared for it. The difference is that even if you "accidentally" trigger a Golden Age as Persia, you still get at least 15 turns of extra gold, production and culture.

My personal play style isn't suited to Persia, but I can definitely see why, in the right hands, they can be devastatingly effective.

 

[bayard sartoris]

Also, you can always save your Great Artists for later eras. 'Clausewitz's Legacy' autocracy tenet plus a infinite golden age with Persia is pretty much gameover for everyone else, even if Persia is behind in tech.
It's UA is awesome, tought not so intuitive for optimal use. UU is pretty decent, and happines from Banks is amazing.
Top tier civilization, I have no doubts.

 

[claudiupb]

That's the second time you've jumped right over the fact that Persia's UB provides happiness.

Not to mention that UB being a bank replacement will be one of the first buildings build in puppets.

 

[Tiber4321]

Persia can be the most powerful Civ in the game. If you can found a strong religion, you can conquer the world and still have happiness hovering around 50. You can be in perpetual golden age for the late game. The combat bonus and gold from this is unequalled. As someone said, its game over, even at Immortal.

 

[Tiber4321]

Here are my thoughts on why Persia's viability is limited.

Persia has military bonuses during Golden Age, but you can't exactly control when the Golden Age occurs, so you might get a golden age when you're not looking for war, or you might not get one at a time you are trying for war.

You have to have happiness in order to spawn golden ages without relying on Great Artists and the Taj Mahal. Happiness is hard to come by with domination and liberty civs.

You actually can control when you golden ages come, IF you can found a strong religion and get all the happiness boosters, like pagodas and cathedrals and IF you can build Notre Dame. This allows you to be around +40-50 happiness. So you hit golden ages every 10-12 turns.

 

[chumchu]

Persia has the best warfare trait in the game. 10% strength and +1 move is insane. China is the only civ that is close. Their unique unit would be better if it did not upgrade into lancers. Persia is really good with liberty and freedom. Go for 4 or 5 cities and a fast NC (really easy with liberty) and build some army. If you time it right the liberty golden age will time with your natural golden age and a late CB attack that carries over into Xbows and further (if you get your guild up or take a GA from liberty). Depending upon the map and your happiness you either go full domination or consolidate at 8-10 cities all working max specialists with freedom for a comfortable science victory.